One-winged Angel Vs. Lich King

[OrcsRLame]

Mama's boy fanboy'ism is strong in this one. Kefka atleast destroyed the world, while mama's boy failed at it. I bet Terra herself alrdy is stronger than ff7's heroes together. After all she's an esper.

Nah, I'm a Weigraf fanboy. Personally, my top 3 Final Fantasy villains are as follows, Weigraf, Kuja, Sin, and then Sephiroth as a distant fourth. Though I believe Sephiroth to be the strongest Final Fantasy villain.

Kefka did not destroy the world, he damaged it heavily. That's why it's called the World of Ruin. And instead of calling me a fanboy how about you try to refute my arguments with logic? Otherwise it's just poo slinging. Even so, Kefka did not succeed, (partially) as a result of his own strength, intelligence, planning, or ability. He simply capitalized on the mistakes and plans of other characters, mainly the heroes. The heroes had 3 chances to stop him before he took control of the Warring Triad. The first chance was their second major encounter with Kefka, at the battle for Narshe. Kefka made a huge mistake in underestimating the strength of the heroes. If you recall, after his forces are routed, he is defeated in combat. After the battle he simply runs away. He had no escape plan, the heroes let him escape because they were too stupid to chase after him. I doubt he could have gotten away from Sabin on foot, but the heroes were too concerned with making sure Banon and the Esper were safe, a task that hardly required the attention of everyone involved. Their second opportunity to stop him was when Gestahl invited the heroes to dinner in an attempt to bargain. He asks the heroes to open the door to the world of the Espers so that he can meet with them in an attempt to surrender and broker a peace treaty. This is an obvious ploy, yet no one in the party expresses even a small reservation about letting the Empire into the Esper world, despite what they witnessed at the Magitek research facility when they saw Kefka torturing Ifrit and Shiva.

While it would have been an indirect victory, if the heroes had told Gestahl to piss off, Kefka would have never had the opportunity to seize power. The third and final failure is the heroes did not arrive in time to stop Kefka from taking the power of the Warring Triad. A situation that almost perfectly mirrors that of the final events of FF7, where the heroes are attempting to reach Sephiroth in the Northern Crater before he can attain ultimate power. The only difference there between Sephiroth and Kefka is that the heroes Sephiroth faced arrived faster.

Hell, Kefka and Sephiroth even have similar backstories. Kefka is the first magitek knight, and since the process wasn't perfected when he underwent it 16 years before FF6 it destroyed his mind, making him crazy. Sounds an awful lot like the SOLDIER program to me. Kefka and Sephiroth are practically the same character. I see them as two sides of the same coin. Kefka embodies the madness and cynicism of evil, while Sephiroth embodies the cruelty and manipulation side of evil. Funny thing, Sephiroth gets all the hate for being the emo one, but it's actually Kefka that's emo, he simply doesn't show it. Sephiroth comes to terms with his own evil eventually, and goes back to his old calm and calculating self. Kefka hates himself for what he's become. That's why he wants to destroy everything, he tries anything he can to make himself feel better, to get rid of his eternal sadness for the life that he lost. The truth is, that whenever Kefka laughs, it's a laugh of sadness.

Concerning their combat capabilities, while Kefka was a powerful magitek knight, he lacked in actual combat experience, and was likely too crazy to learn anything valuable from it anyway. Kefka isn't part of standard military forces, so it's likely that he wasn't deployed to the front lines for the majority of the 8 year war between the Gestahlian Empire and Doma. Sephiroth on the other hand, along with Genesis and Angeal were deployed to the front lines of the Wutai war for 10 years, where they were repeatedly used as shock troops for the most dangerous missions.

Terra is very powerful, but she's not an Esper, she's half Esper. And even so, while Espers/Eidolons/Guardian Forces/Aeons have been shown to be extremely powerful, they're not invincible, and in virtually all cases the heroes surpass them eventually. Terra's Esper form, while an amazing ability, is simply a Trance. It's the exact same ability employed by all characters in FF9. And the characters of FF7 are hardly normal people either.

If anything, Terra was not shown to be as strong as Cloud or the other FF7 heroes. She did after all lose to Humbaba and only lived because Celes and the others saved her. And aside from battles with extremely powerful monsters like Kefka, she never does anything that just screams superhuman. And it's hard to base strength purely off gameplay. With the FF7 heroes, we get a very clear picture of how far they've come with the battle against Diamond WEAPON, as the power of his diamond flash is shown both in battle and in a cutscene when he destroys the Shinra building with it.

So, do you have any logical arguments to refute my claims, or are you just gonna call me a fanboy again?

[Digglett]

Both are grossly overrated. Only good thing about Arthas is his theme music (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Euw5gJbtvE4)

[Defengar]

as soon as that meteor gets in range, arthas grand slams that bitch with frostmourn, locking sephieroth inside it with no one but terenas and an angry ass shadow to talk to for the next bazillion years.

[OrcsRLame]

as soon as that meteor gets in range, arthas grand slams that bitch with frostmourn, locking sephieroth inside it with no one but terenas and an angry ass shadow to talk to for the next bazillion years.

Meteor is a dead planet. If you think Arthas has the physical strength to move a planet, you grossly overestimate his abilities. Besides, Sephiroth doesn't need to drop meteor within 5000 miles of Arthas. He could drop it in the middle of the ocean. Also, Sephiroth has no soul, so it wouldn't be possible to trap him in Frostmourne.

[Valkryx]

Are you suggesting that Sephiroth would then merge with the Lich King becoming the ultimate superpower? Actually I would love to see fan art of a Sephiroth Lich King.

..omg that i want to see too... that would be awesome looking i bet

---------- Post added 2012-03-17 at 10:30 PM ----------

I dont think Aeris is that powerful. Other then her healing capabilities, I found no reason to put her in my main party. When I was forced to at the Temple of Ancients she was a pain in the ass. The case I was trying to make is that sephy carried out most of his plans indirectly through manipulating Cloud and his "Mother". Arthas, while somewhat similar in some cases, took more of a direct role in his conquest to remake the world. Your elaboration to my post doesn't change the fact that Sephy was coward like the entire duration of FF7

you do realize that thru out most of the game sephiroth is actually comatose in a crystal right? he is never actually there when you see hm or deal with him till you put the black materia in the crystal with him and than at the very ending when you fight him at the bottom of his wake (the crator)

[Caiada]

Mama's boy fanboy'ism is strong in this one. Kefka atleast destroyed the world, while mama's boy failed at it. I bet Terra herself alrdy is stronger than ff7's heroes together. After all she's an esper.

Look, yet another person who probably hasn't played the game in years, if at all

Sephiroth without Meteor or Supernova trumps Kefka after the warring triad in just about every single way. Just because he doesn't go all megalomaniac with power like Kefka does and suddenly decide to rule the world (which Sephiroth very well could have with the power of the Lifestream, instead of biding his time for Meteor. He was by far the strongest person in the world at that time, and Shinra would've been smalltime for his manipulation abilities) doesn't mean anything about power. He just had a very focused goal in mind.

Comparing Terra, even at the end of FF6, is just plain ridiculous because she's basically just a teenage girl with exceptionally strong magic. So does Sephiroth, along with years of combat experience and all the other benefits of SOLDIER. Not even close.

Now, specifically, the mama's boy thing, I've never got. It's really greatly oversimplifying a part of his character and backstory to something derogatory.

[tala1the5cyborg]

Arthas is sexier.... yup. That decides it

[andyrockin123]

I spent 15+ trys to kill Sephiroth in KH2, so I'll go with him. :P

[Duncanîdaho]

Sephiroth... it would not even be close. The guy pretty much has the powers of a god and is immortal in the sense that if you somehow manage to kill him he will regenerate eventually. The only way you could actually kill Sephiroth is if you had a blast big enough to vaporize every Jenova cell there is and probably the planet would go too in that case. Which LK does not have at his disposal, nor would he survive such a blast himself.

LK is way out of his league in this one. Sargaras and Sephiroth on the other hand, might be a close fight. LK feared Sargaras because of his power and Sephiroth might give him a challenge as both have godly powers that can ravage and destroy worlds. That's how much stronger Sephiroth is then LK.

Saying LK can beat Sephiroth in a fight is like saying a car could destroy a train in a head on collision.

[Mandible]

Talking about the music or the characters - cause with that title its the music.

---------- Post added 2012-03-18 at 04:18 AM ----------

Sephiroth would have to fly up to the frozen thrown to get there, which would obviously ice off his wings. Then he'd stand in defile or a valkyrie with throw him off or he'd get too many stacks of plague... and even if he managed to avoid that, he'd get blown up by vile spirits.

Wing... not wingS

[Deleted]

The phoenix down argument basically turns on itself.

Any of the abilities mentioned in any fight in FFVII vs Cloud etc are clearly nulled and void, at best he will be able to KO Arthas while his ghoul pal throws a phoenix down on him (unless you deny their existence in the same place as arthas).

And gravity =/= shadow. Bosses get mechanics immunity to gravity so Demi (removing a % of health) isnt able to make a fight an easy win. And once more for goood measure gravity=/=shadow. Deal with it.

Once Arthas owns Sephiroth someone would need to shatter frostmourne to bring back Sephiroth

While I am a great fan of Final Fantasy series, 7 included, I really wish that Sephiroth never was included or was shown in a completely different way. Made out to be comepletely OP but in the end is just a overhyped girly lookin man who gets fan-boys furious if you dare say anything against him.

Cloud would have been a much better candidate in this. And i cant believe people actualy still buy spehiroth with all the crap incarnations he has been through, Square use literally every oppertunity to bring him up, I mean kingdom hearts cameo, come on. That trod him even further in to the ground than they already did

[Caiada]

The phoenix down argument basically turns on itself.

Any of the abilities mentioned in any fight in FFVII vs Cloud etc are clearly nulled and void, at best he will be able to KO Arthas while his ghoul pal throws a phoenix down on him (unless you deny their existence in the same place as arthas).

And gravity =/= shadow. Bosses get mechanics immunity to gravity so Demi (removing a % of health) isnt able to make a fight an easy win. And once more for goood measure gravity=/=shadow. Deal with it.

Once Arthas owns Sephiroth someone would need to shatter frostmourne to bring back Sephiroth

While I am a great fan of Final Fantasy series, 7 included, I really wish that Sephiroth never was included or was shown in a completely different way. Made out to be comepletely OP but in the end is just a overhyped girly lookin man who gets fan-boys furious if you dare say anything against him.

Cloud would have been a much better candidate in this. And i cant believe people actualy still buy spehiroth with all the crap incarnations he has been through, Square use literally every oppertunity to bring him up, I mean kingdom hearts cameo, come on. That trod him even further in to the ground than they already did

Sephiroth wouldn't 'KO' Arthas, he'd kill him outright. Pheonix Downs don't cure death, despite that exceedingly common belief. They revive near-death characters. Sephiroth, again, has no soul. Ignoring %gravity damage, ignoring Super Nova, ignoring Meteor, ignoring Shadowmourne's soul nonsense, name one actual advantage that Arthas would have over Sephiroth besides more minions.

Hate the fandom, not the character.

[Deleted]

Mechanics wise - Sephiroth cant kill - just KO. Phoenix down cures KO.

Mechanics = how you face that person in game. And in game - he cant kill you. Arthas wins.

And im sure if gravity was in arthas' arsenal, Sephirot h would indeed be immune, but alas its not. tough luck

[Caiada]

Mechanics wise - Sephiroth cant kill - just KO. Phoenix down cures KO.

Mechanics = how you face that person in game. And in game - he cant kill you. Arthas wins.

And im sure if gravity was in arthas' arsenal, Sephirot h would indeed be immune, but alas its not. tough luck

Mechanically, Super Nova would 'KO' the whole ghoul army and Arthas shortly afterward.

Mechanically, this argument is pretty stupid, which is why nobody was actually arguing that but you for the past few pages. Mechanics don't matter for two different universes and are a completely incompetent way of comparing character battle skills.

[OrcsRLame]

Mechanics wise - Sephiroth cant kill - just KO. Phoenix down cures KO.

Mechanics = how you face that person in game. And in game - he cant kill you. Arthas wins.

And im sure if gravity was in arthas' arsenal, Sephirot h would indeed be immune, but alas its not. tough luck

Mechanics wise, when all characters are KO'd, it becomes a game over, which is death. Arthas, being a party of 1, would die instantly. Also, how would Arthas get a phoenix down? If you want to talk mechanics, Sephiroth could two shot Arthas. Heartless Angel deals damage equal to enemy's current health minus 1. That reduces Arthas to 1 HP. From there, a single auto attack or deen would finish Arthas, and Sephiroth has the HP and defenses to tank anything Arthas can do, even Fury of Frostmourne.

Now can we please stop this stupid game mechanics argument?

[Norgannon the Dreamweaver]

Sephiroth would win.. Final Fantasy powers can be extremely destructive. Ultimecia was by far the most destructive character in any Final Fantasy game. Having the ability to absorb past, present and the future into yourself would make you god as you are basicly everything. She ALMOST achieved this. Crazy time sorceress is crazy.