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  1. #41
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shufflepants View Post
    It seems like you read the underlined part and then stopped reading. Spells won't necessarily be 100% different, but if it becomes necessary, they can be. Also, you seem to have missed the part about how they are designing PvE content to be more in line with how PvP combat will go. Because of the tools in place to separate PvE spells from PvP spells and from the combat being similar, there is no reason to believe that it will be 6 years trying to tweak PvE in order to bring some semblence of balance. They will definitely be tweaking, but I think we can reasonably expect that they will be able to very quickly bring things to close enough balance that people will have no room to reasonably complain (not that some won't complain anyway, there will always be some one complaining about that last fraction of a percent).

    And you also seem to be applying a false dichotomy of extremes. When I say it won't be a problem, I mean that it won't be a significant enough problem to the point where certain classes become wholly underpowered in one aspect of the game (PvE or PvP) to the point where players will have serious and significant complaints. There will always be some amount of imbalance, but I think ANet, with their design choices and tools available to them stand a good chance of making those imbalances infrequent and mostly imperceptible.

    You are correct that something changed for PvP CAN break PvE, but again, because they are allowing for PvE spells and PvP spells to work differently (as they did in GW1) it doesn't have to. And if they find that it would break the other, they can always split the spells so that it doesn't. Whereas blizzard was commited to making spells work mostly the same; ANet is not.
    Please, don't take my "Not taking what the devs say as blind faith" as "I didn't read your post." It doesn't make your case any better. Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. "Reasonably quick" balance in MMOs is probably one of the biggest examples of an Oxymoron, by the way.

    Just like with Blizzard saying they plan on bringing the "War" back into WoW through MoP, I'll believe it when I see it. Getting hyped up either way never helps a game (SWTOR says hello).

    GW2 is not WoW.
    Uh huh. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath. GW2 is just different enough that I think it's managed to trick a lot of people into thinking it's going to be some radical next-gen type of MMO. I doubt it.

  2. #42
    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Please, don't take my "Not taking what the devs say as blind faith" as "I didn't read your post." It doesn't make your case any better. Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. "Reasonably quick" balance in MMOs is probably one of the biggest examples of an Oxymoron, by the way.

    Just like with Blizzard saying they plan on bringing the "War" back into WoW through MoP, I'll believe it when I see it. Getting hyped up either way never helps a game (SWTOR says hello).

    Uh huh. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath. GW2 is just different enough that I think it's managed to trick a lot of people into thinking it's going to be some radical next-gen type of MMO. I doubt it.
    GW1 was balanced amazingly well. It's well noted by respectable critics for this. They also resolved balancing issues very quickly, from what people have said here.
    I'm going to cry like a little baby when Logan and Rytlock reconcile and have a glorious man-hug

  3. #43
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    Noone is forcing you to play the game I think your attitude is very negative and could start a flamewar. Gw2 only shares the mmo part with WoW. The companies that produce the games have completely different cultures and employees. Pve in GW2 will clearly not be tank and spank, the press beta weekend showed us that. The lack of a dedicated healerclass will be the biggest difference compared to wow both in pve and pvp. I must admit that I'm gonna miss seeing RMP mirrors at 2200+ level or playing against them as RLS but again WOW PVE/PVP can't be directly compared with GW2 PVE/PVP.

  4. #44
    Legendary! KrazyK923's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunghoof View Post
    Noone is forcing you to play the game I think your attitude is very negative and could start a flamewar. Gw2 only shares the mmo part with WoW. The companies that produce the games have completely different cultures and employees. Pve in GW2 will clearly not be tank and spank, the press beta weekend showed us that. The lack of a dedicated healerclass will be the biggest difference compared to wow both in pve and pvp. I must admit that I'm gonna miss seeing RMP mirrors at 2200+ level or playing against them as RLS but again WOW PVE/PVP can't be directly compared with GW2 PVE/PVP.
    I'm not flaming anything. I'm not sure how you can consider it flaming when the opinion is "I'm not buying into the hype and thus am currently of a neutral opinion."

    Saying a game is being hyped up doesn't equal saying that it is bad.

    GW2 has interesting features and I will definitely be trying it out, but I'm not going to get an e-boner over it like I saw many of my friends do for SWTOR only to be crushingly disappointed.

  5. #45
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    GW1 was balanced amazingly well. It's well noted by respectable critics for this. They also resolved balancing issues very quickly, from what people have said here.
    A lot of people will disagree, but they'll be wrong

    GW1 was indeed well-balanced, but there were some very overpowered builds at times. My guild at one time just demolished everyone we GvG'd against with the following build:

    2 R/W thumpers (hammer-wielding rangers with pets)
    2 searing flames elementalists
    1 ranger trapper/flag runner
    1 necro with pets that did bleeds and support skills
    2 healers (I think monks but could have been necro's as well, not sure)

    This was I think early nightfall. Yes I know it's a stupid, gimmick build that requires very little skill

    We were usually rank 350-200, but got to rank 35-ish in a matter of hours in a big winning streak, beating guilds up to rank 4.
    Though we weren't awful, we weren't really all that good as well tbh, and it was the build that put us over the top. Most of our matches lasted only a few minutes because we just demolished their team.

    The good thing is, less than a few days later, the build didn't work anymore because
    1. It got nerfed (especially searing flames which was just stupidly OP).
    2.The meta adapted to it and played builds that would counter us.

    Especially the second is important. GW1 worked a lot like Magic: the gathering where the metagame constantly evolves and people adapt their pvp build/mtg deck to the metagame.
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by jvbastel View Post
    A lot of people will disagree, but they'll be wrong

    Especially the second is important. GW1 worked a lot like Magic: the gathering where the metagame constantly evolves and people adapt their pvp build/mtg deck to the metagame.
    Yeah, that's the kind of thing i've read about. Izzy was supposed to be quite tireless in that kind of thing.
    That's def the thing about GW...the huge number of skills and the massive scope for abilities and strategies really stopped anything from getting too OP.
    And awesome Magic reference I still have my deck and collections back at my folks place...got an original Black Lotus and Timewalk in there. Many a fun time was had playing that epic game.
    You know...I was actually thinking the other day how blue deck with all it's interrupts and leeches etc reminded me of mesmers in GW
    I'm going to cry like a little baby when Logan and Rytlock reconcile and have a glorious man-hug

  7. #47
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    Yeah, that's the kind of thing i've read about. Izzy was supposed to be quite tireless in that kind of thing.
    That's def the thing about GW...the huge number of skills and the massive scope for abilities and strategies really stopped anything from getting too OP.
    And awesome Magic reference I still have my deck and collections back at my folks place...got an original Black Lotus and Timewalk in there. Many a fun time was had playing that epic game.
    You know...I was actually thinking the other day how blue deck with all it's interrupts and leeches etc reminded me of mesmers in GW
    Hehe, I recently started playing magic again (like a lot fo people who quit because mirrodin/kamigawa was awful ) so it's fresh on my mind

    Actually it's a known fact that Arenanet has some influences from Mtg in GW, and they often compare the skill system in GW/GW2 to Mtg deckbuilding, where you have to make a lot of decision before the game, which will influence how good a match-up you will have against the other team.

    Also, in the picture in yesterday's community blog, Stéphane lo Presti (think that's how you write it ) is wearing a Magic: the gathering shirt, so there's definitely some fans there
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  8. #48
    Quote Originally Posted by jvbastel View Post
    Hehe, I recently started playing magic again (like a lot fo people who quit because mirrodin/kamigawa was awful ) so it's fresh on my mind

    Actually it's a known fact that Arenanet has some influences from Mtg in GW, and they often compare the skill system in GW/GW2 to Mtg deckbuilding, where you have to make a lot of decision before the game, which will influence how good a match-up you will have against the other team.

    Also, in the picture in yesterday's community blog, Stéphane lo Presti (think that's how you write it ) is wearing a Magic: the gathering shirt, so there's definitely some fans there
    That's pretty god damn awesome to know. Yh...there's a lot of similarities when you think about it. I rekon some at Anet are old school pen and paper D&Ders at heart...I think it really comes through in their game design, in the almost back to basics attitude, but taking the best aspects of new gaming.
    I was quite obsessed with Magic for a while. From release until an exp called...I think it was Iceage...for abotu 4-5 years or so. I imagine my collection is worth quite a bit now lol. Black Lotus was something like $150 bucks when I stopped playing...but wanna keep em so I can look through em as a crusty ol granpa haha.
    I had some epic times playing that game...so many different deck builds......ahh happy memories.
    And chirst...thinking about it now......my red/blue deck feels like an ele...
    My black and green deck feels like a necro...
    Pure blue feels like memers...
    o.0 - I think I've just fallen in love with Anet on a whole new level lol.
    Damn....I wish I'd started GW in 2005
    I'm going to cry like a little baby when Logan and Rytlock reconcile and have a glorious man-hug

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    That's pretty god damn awesome to know. Yh...there's a lot of similarities when you think about it. I rekon some at Anet are old school pen and paper D&Ders at heart...I think it really comes through in their game design, in the almost back to basics attitude, but taking the best aspects of new gaming.
    I was quite obsessed with Magic for a while. From release until an exp called...I think it was Iceage...for abotu 4-5 years or so. I imagine my collection is worth quite a bit now lol. Black Lotus was something like $150 bucks when I stopped playing...but wanna keep em so I can look through em as a crusty ol granpa haha.
    I had some epic times playing that game...so many different deck builds......ahh happy memories.
    And chirst...thinking about it now......my red/blue deck feels like an ele...
    My black and green deck feels like a necro...
    Pure blue feels like memers...
    o.0 - I think I've just fallen in love with Anet on a whole new level lol.
    Damn....I wish I'd started GW in 2005
    Well if you got a black lotus and other P9 like Time walk I would say: "Screw my collection" and just sell it, the unlimited version is about 500-600 Euros, blackbordered ones are well over 1000

    www.magiccardmarket.com is a good site to get some prices if you're interested.

    GW in 2005 was awesome, I have very fond memories of prophecies and they're my favorite gaming year ever
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  10. #50
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Please, don't take my "Not taking what the devs say as blind faith" as "I didn't read your post." It doesn't make your case any better. Like I said, I'll believe it when I see it. "Reasonably quick" balance in MMOs is probably one of the biggest examples of an Oxymoron, by the way.

    Just like with Blizzard saying they plan on bringing the "War" back into WoW through MoP, I'll believe it when I see it. Getting hyped up either way never helps a game (SWTOR says hello).



    Uh huh. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath. GW2 is just different enough that I think it's managed to trick a lot of people into thinking it's going to be some radical next-gen type of MMO. I doubt it.
    Go to wiki.guildwars.com type in signet of spirits, read pve version, then click on pvp version and tell me that they won't take full advantage of splitting skills when needed...
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  11. #51
    Quote Originally Posted by jvbastel View Post
    Well if you got a black lotus and other P9 like Time walk I would say: "Screw my collection" and just sell it, the unlimited version is about 500-600 Euros, blackbordered ones are well over 1000

    www.magiccardmarket.com is a good site to get some prices if you're interested.

    GW in 2005 was awesome, I have very fond memories of prophecies and they're my favorite gaming year ever
    Would prob finance everything from the cash shop for while They are black borders yh.
    But nah....I like the artwork too much to sell them tbh. Maybe one day when I need to pay for someone's college xD
    Makes me wanna play it again lol.
    I'm going to cry like a little baby when Logan and Rytlock reconcile and have a glorious man-hug

  12. #52
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Squirrelbanes View Post
    Would prob finance everything from the cash shop for while They are black borders yh.
    But nah....I like the artwork too much to sell them tbh. Maybe one day when I need to pay for someone's college xD
    Makes me wanna play it again lol.
    Hehe, know the feeling. I didn't play it for 7-8 years, then a friend o mine asked "Hey Jens, wanna play magic with our old decks?"
    and now I spend about 200-400 euros every month on cards
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by jvbastel View Post
    Hehe, know the feeling. I didn't play it for 7-8 years, then a friend o mine asked "Hey Jens, wanna play magic with our old decks?"
    and now I spend about 200-400 euros every month on cards
    Lolz
    Damn...if my deck was here i'd def dust it off now and have a lil mock playthrough. I miss my vesuvan doppelgangers and shivan dragons lol. Ahh the fear on someone's face when I'd doppelganger 2 shivans.
    Rly is funny though...i play my mesmer in GW pvp exaclty how I played my blue deck, interrupting them and total shutdown.
    I'm going to cry like a little baby when Logan and Rytlock reconcile and have a glorious man-hug

  14. #54
    Ranger
    Mesmer
    Guardian
    Necromancer
    Engineer

    possibly as said before

  15. #55
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sithium View Post
    Ranger
    Mesmer
    Guardian
    Necromancer
    Engineer

    possibly as said before
    Gasp!! Copycat!!!
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  16. #56
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by KrazyK923 View Post
    Uh huh. We'll see. I'm not holding my breath. GW2 is just different enough that I think it's managed to trick a lot of people into thinking it's going to be some radical next-gen type of MMO. I doubt it.
    The point I was making is that GW2 doesn't have the things in it that cause WoW to have such ridiculous imbalance, including healers and CC-chains that prevent your character from taking action for several seconds.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-03-16 at 05:05 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  17. #57
    Without talking baout specific profession, what functions you see people doing in well organized teams?

    Node defenders seems obvious. A tough character that can defend a position and deny it while help arrives.

    Node capper team, one or two characters that roam the battlefield to support where needed. Speed buffs and good offense probably needed here.

    Trebuchet bitch, a character that will operate and repair the trebuchet in Kyhlo when needed and also support.

    What more?

  18. #58
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rowen View Post
    Without talking baout specific profession, what functions you see people doing in well organized teams?

    Node defenders seems obvious. A tough character that can defend a position and deny it while help arrives.

    Node capper team, one or two characters that roam the battlefield to support where needed. Speed buffs and good offense probably needed here.

    Trebuchet bitch, a character that will operate and repair the trebuchet in Kyhlo when needed and also support.

    What more?
    I would say a defender for the most contested node, a lone wolf to run all over the map and do what's needed/operate trebuchet (would be all around good as solo) some at least one harasser that be designed to go into and out of combat very easily an just cause panic and chaos all over the battle field, and then 2 others that be designed for assulting nodes together, providing support, and being able to hold the node they take and quickly get to another node that's in trouble to help defend.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  19. #59
    Mesmer
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    Pokemon FC: 4425-2708-3610

  20. #60
    just gonna play togheter with my friends! I'll see with what we end up, As long as we are having a good time I'm cool with it. Although I would love to try some 5* set ups can be pretty funny.

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