Obsidian Entertainment might be going under

[PizzaSHARK]

Buddy linked me to a 4chan thing talking about how Obsidian Entertainment might be going under, listing a response from Chris Avellone on Twitter. 4chan isn't exactly known for reliability, though, so I'm holding off on forming up a lynch mob to march to Bethesda's offices until I can get confirmation.

Mr. Avellone's Twitter, with the tweet in question: https://twitter.com/#!/ChrisAvellone...62439394643968

I actually made a Twitter account for the sole purpose of telling Mr. Avellone to put up a Kickstarter for Obsidian Entertainment. If it turns out Bethesda didn't fucking pay them due to a motherfucking technicality... well, fuck Bethesda. I'll throw the $73 ($50 for FNV, $5 for each story DLC, $3 for the GRA DLC) into it, since they should have gotten that money for making such a wonderful game.

Understand, Obsidian Entertainment is home to a lot of the original team that created Fallout and Fallout 2. These are the people that deserve your money, not Bethesda.

[Deleted]

I just bought the Fallout : New Vegas Ultimate Edition yesterday...
All DLCs included, and (for me Important) uncut version of the game.

[PizzaSHARK]

I just bought the Fallout : New Vegas Ultimate Edition yesterday...
All DLCs included, and (for me Important) uncut version of the game.

Yeah, I know. Bethesda is the publisher. If I'm understanding this right, Obsidian Entertainment didn't really get much of anything for their work on FNV because they didn't get 85 or higher on their Metacritic. I imagine they got a little something, but it's sounding like the full payout was contingent on them getting that 85+ rating.

In other words, Bethesda basically jobbed OE by not paying them (fully) for the work they did, and it's not at all unheard of for publishers to buy off game reviewers to guarantee a high score; I'm sure the opposite is true (hey, we'll make a "donation" to your company if you ensure this game doesn't make more than an 84!)

... If I'm reading this all right.

[hailey]

wow Obsidian got screwed on FNV It was ten times the game FO3 was and they are still selling it and they don't get royalties?

And a bonus based on metacritic, is this the norm in the industry? It seems absurd considering how unscrupulous game reviewers are

[Tyratops]

I'd like to think the straight up payment covered the cost of making the game, really bad business on OE's part though if they didn't recover enough, they only have themselves to blame.

[Profyrion]

I'm gonna wait for confirmation on this.

Stow your pitchforks, people...

[PizzaSHARK]

I'd like to think the straight up payment covered the cost of making the game, really bad business on OE's part though if they didn't recover enough, they only have themselves to blame.

It probably did... but you have to keep in mind that studios don't get a payday until the product goes gold and they begin getting funds from the sales. In the meantime they still have to pay employee salaries, the costs associated with renting or owning a building (everything from property taxes to electricity, water, etc), and everything in between out of pocket. If they didn't end up making much of any profits from FNV, and didn't start with much to begin with... well, that's a death sentence for the company. My old man had his own business building houses, I've seen something like this happen first-hand.

@Profyrion: I'd have mailed a bomb to Bethesda if I'd gotten confirmation. I doubt a story of this magnitude (game company goes out of business directly due to their publisher basically jobbing them, especially a big name like Bethesda) would stay under wraps for very long.

Shit, I already don't like Bethesda. If this turns out to be true it'll just mean instead of picking up Bethesda games for $10 during Steam sales, I won't touch them at all.

---------- Post added 2012-03-15 at 09:52 AM ----------

It's real. It's not bankruptcy, exactly... but it's a sign of bad times ahead. The Twitter thing was a result of people picking up on Obsidian having to do a round of layoffs.

http://www.gamebanshee.com/news/1072...cancelled.html
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/news/1...of_layoffs.php
http://www.joystiq.com/2012/03/14/re...-affected-fut/

Joystiq seems to be the ones that got the scoop. Basically, they had to fire a bunch of people because they couldn't afford them anymore, from all departments, ranging from some poor son of a bitch that had literally been hired the day before (god, I feel for that guy...) all the way up to the studio's lead producer. When you're laying off your veterans, it's not a sign of healthiness.

It bothers me because Obsidian Entertainment is largely comprised of the survivors of Black Isle Studios and Troika Games. Troika Games doesn't have a huge list of games they were really known for (primarily just Arcanum and VTM: Bloodlines), but Black Isle Studios had a list of A+ games they were the driving force behind as long as your arm, and while BioWare was the only one on the box, Black Isle Studios was largely responsible for Neverwinter Nights. BioWare jobbing BIS shortly before NWN went gold is actually one of the major contributing factors in Black Isle folding in the first place.

I dunno. If they can be convinced to make a Kickstarter, I'm damned sure gonna give them whatever I can afford, there's way too much talent in that studio to let them fall apart. Granted, most of their releases have been pretty "meh," but that's because most of their releases have been outside their expertise - I'm left with the impression of "we're taking this project because we're having trouble finding the money to pay rent," not that they were like OH ME ME ME ME GIVE IT TO ME PLEEEEEEASE!

Otherwise, I'm hoping Valve realizes what a huge fucking chance this is and snaps them up. At least we know Valve's good at that kind of thing - the Counter-Strike guys, the Team Fortress guys, the Left 4 Dead guys, and now the DOTA 2 guys were all amateurs that were hired because Valve knew a good thing when they saw it. FNV was a fantastic game, and you only have to look at the names of the games the Black Isle and Troika people produced to know there's a LOT of talent there if you can give them a project that's suited to what they're good at - making really goddamn good RPGs.

[Tyratops]

When I say cost of making the game, I mean all costs they incur during that period (wages, electricity etc.) but to be honest I know little of the processes involved. I just would have thought it would be logical to make sure the straight up payment is enough to cover the period of making the game and not gamble on a meta critic rating bonus to cover costs. I maintain it's OE's own fault that they didn't do their cash management properly. The hate on Bethesda is unjustified in my opinion.

[PizzaSHARK]

When I say cost of making the game, I mean all costs they incur during that period (wages, electricity etc.) but to be honest I know little of the processes involved. I just would have thought it would be logical to make sure the straight up payment is enough to cover the period of making the game and not gamble on a meta critic rating bonus to cover costs. I maintain it's OE's own fault that they didn't do their cash management properly. The hate on Bethesda is unjustified in my opinion.

I dunno man. OE was formed from survivors from two different studios that folded. They probably didn't have a lot of capital to start with, which is also probably why they made a lot of games outside their field of expertise.

I don't know the details behind the agreement - other than they had to score 85 on Metacritic to earn the bonuses - but I do know that I can easily see the head of Bethesda Softworks jobbing OE out of their money by buying off game reviewers, instructing them to deliberately score FNV low so that it's harder for them to meet that 85 average. I have absolutely no problems seeing someone like Bobby Kotick doing that, and we already know that game publishers pay reviewers to give their games good reviews even if the games are garbage (lol, IGN.) I don't consider it a stretch to assume they could pay some review outfits to score a game poorly if it's their own game.

I know, tinfoil hat time. But it makes sense - I think once your income starts getting past seven figures you have an increasingly high chance of spontaneously developing severe brain damage and becoming unable to think like a normal person. I have trouble explaining Bobby Kotick and the top dogs in EA in any other way.

[Profyrion]

So Obsidian laid off a bunch of staff, but not because of a sour deal with Bethesda.

Thanks, that's what I was expecting to hear.

[PizzaSHARK]

So Obsidian laid off a bunch of staff, but not because of a sour deal with Bethesda.

Thanks, that's what I was expecting to hear.

Actually, no, it was due to Bethesda not coming through on their part of the deal.

[Tyratops]

Actually, no, it was due to Bethesda not coming through on their part of the deal.

Thing is though, as far as anyone can prove, they did. You're just speculating that Bethesda paid off reviewers to keep the games rating below 85.

[Zeta333]

Id have to say yes the technicallity suck, but tbh its OE's fault for signing such a terrible contract.

[PizzaSHARK]

Thing is though, as far as anyone can prove, they did. You're just speculating that Bethesda paid off reviewers to keep the games rating below 85.

No, I was referring to more that it's at 84 and they're presumably holding a great deal of money back... over 1% on an arbitrary number system. Granted I think it was silly of OE to accept terms like that, but maybe there was a reason, and besides: most of the people at OE were also the people that worked on Fallout and Fallout 2. I guess they figured they'd be able to make an 85+ game given their history with the series? I dunno.

But, yeah, I don't have problems seeing Bethesda buying some review scores. I don't have proof and never will, but I don't really see it as being out of depth for a big-name publisher.

[procne]

I dunno man. OE was formed from survivors from two different studios that folded. They probably didn't have a lot of capital to start with, which is also probably why they made a lot of games outside their field of expertise.

I don't know the details behind the agreement - other than they had to score 85 on Metacritic to earn the bonuses - but I do know that I can easily see the head of Bethesda Softworks jobbing OE out of their money by buying off game reviewers, instructing them to deliberately score FNV low so that it's harder for them to meet that 85 average. I have absolutely no problems seeing someone like Bobby Kotick doing that, and we already know that game publishers pay reviewers to give their games good reviews even if the games are garbage (lol, IGN.) I don't consider it a stretch to assume they could pay some review outfits to score a game poorly if it's their own game.

I know, tinfoil hat time. But it makes sense - I think once your income starts getting past seven figures you have an increasingly high chance of spontaneously developing severe brain damage and becoming unable to think like a normal person. I have trouble explaining Bobby Kotick and the top dogs in EA in any other way.

Wait, so Bethesda decides to make a game, hires OE to write it, and then they do everything they can to lower game's rating to cut the production costs AND profits from sales?
Are you insane?

Why make a game and then deliberately lower its ratings?

[Northern Goblin]

1% isn't going to harm sales.

It is however going to save you a fortune in costs.


Personally I don't buy the "They paid off Metacritic" conspiracy. But I do believe they didn't pay Obsidian the full amount due either because of prior agreements. It's shit and Bethesda should offer to reneg the deal and pay a high % of the agreed sum for falling just short of the target. But :business:

[Tyratops]

No, I was referring to more that it's at 84 and they're presumably holding a great deal of money back... over 1% on an arbitrary number system.

It's irrelevent, Bethesda fulfilled their part of the contract as far as can be proved, they have done nothing wrong - the end.

[procne]

1% isn't going to harm sales.

It's not 1%.
It might have been 90 or more.

[Deleted]

Note to self: Never under any circumstances sign a contract where I won't get anything for my work.

[PizzaSHARK]

Wait, so Bethesda decides to make a game, hires OE to write it, and then they do everything they can to lower game's rating to cut the production costs AND profits from sales?
Are you insane?

Why make a game and then deliberately lower its ratings?

Bethesda did not have a hand in the making of FNV, they just published it. It's probably why FNV and its DLCs aren't fucking trash like FO3 and its DLCs, other than having to get Felicia Day instead of Liam fucking Neeson.

My understanding is that Bethesda paid OE for the cost of the project, and maybe a tiny bit more, but the real payday was contingent on them getting an 85 or better professional critic score on Metacritic, which they missed by one point. At any rate, while Chris Avellone and the laid off people didn't quite come out and say it directly, OE was pretty dependent on getting that paycheck from Bethesda to be able to keep rolling, and since they failed to get it, they're having to fire people to make ends meet.

I don't know how the nitty-gritty works, but since I'm left with the impression that Bethesda merely reimbursed OE for its expenses during the creation of FNV... who got all the money from the sales? Because FNV sold very well.

---------- Post added 2012-03-16 at 06:38 AM ----------

It's irrelevent, Bethesda fulfilled their part of the contract as far as can be proved, they have done nothing wrong - the end.

Up to you if you'd like to view that way. I have plenty of other reasons to dislike Bethesda

Though if there wasn't some catch that made OE go for the "85% or better if you want a payday" deal and OE went for it anyway, my response would have to be: ಠ_ಠ