Page 10 of 10 FirstFirst ...
8
9
10
  1. #181
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    And what makes you think you can't zone out and kill stuff without thinking in GW2?
    Well I hope the combat is more engaging than most mmos so I actually have to pay attention.

  2. #182
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,020
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I don't think that point is very convincing. The skinner box effect of MMOs is well documented. You get a rush of happy brain chemicals every time you complete a "task", not because the task is fun, but because you are conditioned. That's why WoW throws you a treat every six seconds in the beginning.... and then less.... and less.... and less. On top of that, even the way gear drops is the same psychological manipulation that feeds gambling addicts. "This next one might be the one that drops it..." None of this makes games inherently more fun. It makes them more ADDICTIVE. What is an addicts first excuse? "I like doing it!"
    Very well worded.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-16 at 12:56 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Doozerjun View Post
    Well I hope the combat is more engaging than most mmos so I actually have to pay attention.
    I do as well, of course, but I imagine that it's not going to be every single piece of the game that's challenging. There's likely to be places where you can just zone out and chug your way through dynamic events.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  3. #183
    The Lightbringer Malthurius's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    The Black Citadel
    Posts
    3,638
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    I do as well, of course, but I imagine that it's not going to be every single piece of the game that's challenging. There's likely to be places where you can just zone out and chug your way through dynamic events.
    Lower level content surely, but I hope any content level 30+ requires your full attention, otherwise it's not worth being in the game.
    "Questions are for those seeking answers. Those who have answers are those who have asked questions." -Mike R. (Malthurius)

  4. #184
    Herald of the Titans Snow White's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    Divinity's Reach
    Posts
    2,889
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I don't think that point is very convincing. The skinner box effect of MMOs is well documented. You get a rush of happy brain chemicals every time you complete a "task", not because the task is fun, but because you are conditioned. That's why WoW throws you a treat every six seconds in the beginning.... and then less.... and less.... and less. On top of that, even the way gear drops is the same psychological manipulation that feeds gambling addicts. "This next one might be the one that drops it..." None of this makes games inherently more fun. It makes them more ADDICTIVE. What is an addicts first excuse? "I like doing it!"
    Bravo sir. *applaud*
    I have been trying to explain the illusion of fun to my wow friends and they just don't seem to understand. I will be ripping this post off. :P

  5. #185
    Quote Originally Posted by NineSpine View Post
    I don't think that point is very convincing. The skinner box effect of MMOs is well documented.
    It is, but most of that deals with instances, and gear progression, and isn't directly tied to the leveling process. Since for many MMOs the "game starts at cap", many players want to hit cap as soon as they can. There is no real incentive to take their time, since the longer they take the more they miss out on the "real" game. As such, people will play how they prefer so they can level the fastest. For some, its mob grinding, for others its questing. I know a few people that love raiding and hate questing, so they clear out their bags and go grind mobs, occasionally picking up a "kill x mobs" quest for a quick boost in XP (like the old Salt Flats area). They aren't looking for any drops, they are just waiting for specific level hurdles to tell them it's time to move to a new zone.

  6. #186
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow White View Post
    Bravo sir. *applaud*
    I have been trying to explain the illusion of fun to my wow friends and they just don't seem to understand. I will be ripping this post off. :P
    Can also show them this as well

    http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/the-skinner-box

  7. #187
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,020
    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone Jack View Post
    It is, but most of that deals with instances, and gear progression, and isn't directly tied to the leveling process.
    Very much incorrect. He's talking about being rewarded for completing a task, not about anything you just said. The theory was originally applied to pigeons and then to gambling and then was applied to RPG elements.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-03-16 at 06:16 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  8. #188
    Quote Originally Posted by Borzo View Post
    WOW is training and developing a whole population of future accountants and statisticians.
    That's actually not true, top tanks or dpsers have no idea about math, they just read guides and faqs. If anything, WoW trains mindless bots who don't like challenging content.

  9. #189
    Quote Originally Posted by Snow White View Post
    Bravo sir. *applaud*
    I have been trying to explain the illusion of fun to my wow friends and they just don't seem to understand. I will be ripping this post off. :P
    If you want to look it up, there's a really awesome cracked.com article that sums it all up. It's called the five ways video games something something something.

  10. #190
    The Lightbringer Tekkommo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Location
    Scotland
    Posts
    3,024
    There is a gear grind in GW2.

    Everyone should care what their character looks like in game and I believe you have to farm better looking gear. There is your gear grind

  11. #191
    Lol are you guys rly serious? Are you rly trying use skinner box argument against some1 who dont agree with you?

    Do you know that it can be reversed? Its enough to get Roberts Cialdini's "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" to not look too far, and you can find a lot stuf which you can use to discredit any fan who is trying convice some1 to his favorite game.

    Its one thing that procne sometimes seems to apply differnt meaning to definitions then you, and he presented some opinionions which made GW2 fans rly jump (psychological mechanics which Cialdini for example decribed quite well) but overall all what he said was his own opinions and he presented his own preferences.

    There were few posts with nice info ontopic which seemed to be totaly ignored, it would be much better if ppl focus rather on presenting facts/info then trying discredit other ppl.

  12. #192
    I like games you play because they are fun ... not because the game gives you gift after you finish boring task. LoL works like that for me and GW2 looks like LoL that turned into MMO.

    What's the worst that can happen to you ...

  13. #193
    Over 9000! Arrowstormen's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2010
    Location
    California (vacation)
    Posts
    9,663
    Quote Originally Posted by Tekkommo View Post
    There is a gear grind in GW2.

    Everyone should care what their character looks like in game and I believe you have to farm better looking gear. There is your gear grind
    That would be correct, if you could find something that requires farming to get that is
    Belief can become reality!

  14. #194
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanrei View Post
    Lol are you guys rly serious? Are you rly trying use skinner box argument against some1 who dont agree with you?

    Do you know that it can be reversed? Its enough to get Roberts Cialdini's "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" to not look too far, and you can find a lot stuf which you can use to discredit any fan who is trying convice some1 to his favorite game.

    Its one thing that procne sometimes seems to apply differnt meaning to definitions then you, and he presented some opinionions which made GW2 fans rly jump (psychological mechanics which Cialdini for example decribed quite well) but overall all what he said was his own opinions and he presented his own preferences.
    Nobody was trying to convince anyone of anything. People were just trying to point out that procne's statement "this game is boring because it has no gear progression" is ultimately flawed on a logical level. I mean, people don't care what kind of games he likes or whether he likes GW2 or not (which was clearly stated on multiple occasions). But its one thing to say: "I like something different, so this game is not for me" and another thing is to start making statements about the game which are simply false or based on some sort of bizarre individual notions like "asian MMO", "not an RPG", "arcade".

  15. #195
    Quote Originally Posted by Kanrei View Post
    Lol are you guys rly serious? Are you rly trying use skinner box argument against some1 who dont agree with you?

    Do you know that it can be reversed? Its enough to get Roberts Cialdini's "Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion" to not look too far, and you can find a lot stuf which you can use to discredit any fan who is trying convice some1 to his favorite game.

    Its one thing that procne sometimes seems to apply differnt meaning to definitions then you, and he presented some opinionions which made GW2 fans rly jump (psychological mechanics which Cialdini for example decribed quite well) but overall all what he said was his own opinions and he presented his own preferences.

    There were few posts with nice info ontopic which seemed to be totaly ignored, it would be much better if ppl focus rather on presenting facts/info then trying discredit other ppl.
    If people don't want to hear the opinions of others on their own opinion, then it's advisable not to post that opinion on a forum.

  16. #196
    People have different opinions. That's totally fine.
    People find different things fun. That's totally fine.

    Closing this because some people can't seem to grasp either concept. Also, because some people don't want to be corrected when they are incorrect on a factual matter.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •