1. #1

    comparing Nuclear silos in Iran to Auschwitz

    i assume everyone knows that some time ago,PM of Israel compared Auschwitz to the nuclear plants in Iran and gave an impression that they just went and started using the holocaust for every thing just in order to prove they are right.As it seems there are people in Israel that dont like that comparison too

    http://www.haaretz.com/print-edition...ffect-1.418996

  2. #2
    Banned Bakis's Avatar
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    Netanyahu is an uncompromising biggot, I never pay attention to his extreme views on anything. Are more moderat and sane voices in the israeli government than that prick.

  3. #3
    I don't like Netanyahu at all, and I don't think we should base on policy decisions on worst case scenarios, but I can surely see why Israeli Jews would be a bit touchy about a country whose leader has declared an intention to commit a new Holocaust attempting to acquire nuclear weapons.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome ThunderBlunder's Avatar
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    Netanyahu, and most of the israeli government, is a disgrace to the Jewish people.
    He says he always speaks FOR the Israeli but in fact, his acts are more of a retaliation 'in the name of the Israeli'.
    I hope you guys see better politicians than him in the near future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Boubouille View Post
    *punches ThunderBlunder in the face*

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Spectral View Post
    I don't like Netanyahu at all, and I don't think we should base on policy decisions on worst case scenarios, but I can surely see why Israeli Jews would be a bit touchy about a country whose leader has declared an intention to commit a new Holocaust attempting to acquire nuclear weapons.
    This. I'd be extremely scared if for example the United Kingdom made the same kind of statements about my country(Ireland) that leaders in Iran make about Israel.

  6. #6
    yeah but invoking the holocaust in every thing its dangerous for Israel too...i mean there is a great number of people around the world tat alrady dont like the way Israel act...by making statements like this and those statemennts coming from the head of Israel you just make more people think that Israel is going over the edge...The holocaust was a genocide,but not the only genocide of this century...if coments like this keep happening eventually more and more people wont really care about it...Also about Netanyahu...well he is the prime minister and he does represent Israel...what he says is the word of Israel.

  7. #7
    Banned Bakis's Avatar
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    Anyone even care when they play the holocaust card? It's been overused the past 30 years.

  8. #8
    well from what i have seen from newspapers and stuff like that...it sure is still working.The problem with over using it is not that it wont work as a political card anymore...but it will lose its meaning and symbolism...i mean in Europe deniers of the holocaust are gaining foot all the time,it might help the rise of right wing to but in generally it would be a shame if a genocide loose its meaning because some politicians over use it for small political means.

  9. #9
    Banned Bakis's Avatar
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    Many europeans already wont take it seriously considering that we are very compromising in the Israel-Palestine conflict.
    It it not hard to get a thick skin against the holocaust card when we see on weekly basis how the civilians population in palestine suffer from Israels actions.
    Would be somewhat easier to accept that card if it was a onesided conflict which it is not unless one is a blind zionist.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Bakis View Post
    Anyone even care when they play the holocaust card? It's been overused the past 30 years.
    not really. I understand that it was a travesty, but most of the time that it has been used has been so absurdly incomparable to the holocaust that it doesn't even make sense. furthermore, they never use the holocaust card as means to advocate the ending of other 'holocausts' that are currently happening in the world. its just a trump card for their own political agenda half the time.
    Quote Originally Posted by Cattaclysmic View Post
    The evidence for leprechauns is immense - do you know how many socks dissappear on the world scale... This means that the chance of leprechauns exists is the same as them not existing - therefore you cannot deny their existence

  11. #11
    Personally, I have supreme respect for Netanyahu and the rest of the Israeli people. They are just a 'dont take shit from no one' group of people that I admire. Netanyahu's brother was the only military casualty during Operation Entebbe which some may be know was the rescue of Israeli citizens in Uganda. It was a brilliant operation and the only Israeli soldier to die was the commander of the operation, he put himself front and center. This is the same view I have of Benjamin Netanyahu and quite honestly, the entire Israeli population. Now, as outsiders it may be hard to put ourselves in their shoes and determine how they really feel emotionally. But do consider that every country that borders Israel, hates them. Really, it's every country in the middle east. So when even the notion of a threat comes up I wont blame them at all for taking care of it. When, and I say when not if, Israel bombs Iran, they will have my support. That however, is only my opinion.

  12. #12
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Nuclear silos to Auschwitz? Have the nukes been launched? No? Have they been built? No? Has Iran actually made any attempt to destroy Israel, like action? No? Oh, where's Auschwitz then? I find it hypocritical for someone to bring this argument now, or ever.
    I dislike Israel for always playing the crappy "oh we're victims" card all the time and evoking something that happened 60 years ago when they're doing the same to palestinians.
    Quote Originally Posted by Stalemate View Post
    Personally, I have supreme respect for Netanyahu and the rest of the Israeli people. They are just a 'dont take shit from no one' group of people that I admire. Netanyahu's brother was the only military casualty during Operation Entebbe which some may be know was the rescue of Israeli citizens in Uganda. It was a brilliant operation and the only Israeli soldier to die was the commander of the operation, he put himself front and center. This is the same view I have of Benjamin Netanyahu and quite honestly, the entire Israeli population. Now, as outsiders it may be hard to put ourselves in their shoes and determine how they really feel emotionally. But do consider that every country that borders Israel, hates them. Really, it's every country in the middle east. So when even the notion of a threat comes up I wont blame them at all for taking care of it. When, and I say when not if, Israel bombs Iran, they will have my support. That however, is only my opinion.
    Allow me to voice my opinion then as well: you've been brainwashed. If you think that today, in 2012, all the neighbours of Israel still want their heads, you've been brainwashed. First, Jordan, except the hatred at start and declarations after against Israel, in recent past I don't remember them even saying they want your head anymore, I only remember them saying they want a Palestine, which is a resonable stance.
    Then, Egypt, after you made peace with them, they recognized Israel and they were ok since 1980's or so. Now they even changed leadership of their dictator. For now not sure with what, but I haven't heard them saying they want your head either.

    Then, Palestine, yes, I consider them a country, one run by two regimes though. The one in the Gaza strip does want to destroy Israel... since Israel keeps them fenced in a desert area and shoots on ships trying to get food in there, like they shot in the Turkey ships. It doesn't mean their stance with terrorists is fully justified, but it is understandable. Then you have the other part of Palestine, the West Bank, that's been trying to negociate with Palestine for years, and I remember it going like this:
    Palestine: " well maybe we can get to an agreement... hey, wait, what's with those military camps in our lands?"
    Israel: "they're there to protect our citzens from terrorists in your country"
    Palestine: "well fine... that's not very nice though since it's our... hold one, what are those settlements near those military camps?"
    Israel: " well those militaries need to live somewhere, don't they? By the way, we're building more military camps further inland to protect the new settlements"
    Palestine: "what? no, we're retreating from negociations!"
    Israel (to other nations): "See, I told you we can't reach an agreement with terrorists!"

    Then we have Syria... which everyone blames. So it's not so surprising a dictator that kills his own people also wants to kill people of neighbouring countries.
    And last, Lebanon, which you bombed until you grew bored, if you think that's a threat you're blind.

    And a few countries away (like 3 or so) there's Iran, who has a crazy prime-minister (since guess what, president at them = prime-minister in our countries, their true leader is not that crazy guy but rather Komeni or what's his name, a guy, who even though is not the brightest guy in the world, can still understand war over religion is dumb).

    Actually hold on, a few months ago the french president said something that romanians are all criminals and crap. So I can assume he's meaning to exterminate us... and France has nukes! We have to attack France! Does that sound stupid? Well it is, but it's same situation Iran and Israel are in.

  13. #13
    Banned Bakis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalemate View Post
    Personally, I have supreme respect for Netanyahu and the rest of the Israeli people. They are just a 'dont take shit from no one' group of people that I admire. Netanyahu's brother was the only military casualty during Operation Entebbe which some may be know was the rescue of Israeli citizens in Uganda. It was a brilliant operation and the only Israeli soldier to die was the commander of the operation, he put himself front and center. This is the same view I have of Benjamin Netanyahu and quite honestly, the entire Israeli population. Now, as outsiders it may be hard to put ourselves in their shoes and determine how they really feel emotionally. But do consider that every country that borders Israel, hates them. Really, it's every country in the middle east. So when even the notion of a threat comes up I wont blame them at all for taking care of it. When, and I say when not if, Israel bombs Iran, they will have my support. That however, is only my opinion.
    'dont take shit from no one' -mentailty is what explain some of his nonexistant will to compromise. No peace with him by the stearing wheel.
    the entire Israeli population - his suport is hardly solid among the israeli population.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Arnorei View Post
    Nuclear silos to Auschwitz? Have the nukes been launched? No? Have they been built? No? Has Iran actually made any attempt to destroy Israel, like action? No? Oh, where's Auschwitz then? I find it hypocritical for someone to bring this argument now, or ever.
    I dislike Israel for always playing the crappy "oh we're victims" card all the time and evoking something that happened 60 years ago when they're doing the same to palestinians.

    Allow me to voice my opinion then as well: you've been brainwashed. If you think that today, in 2012, all the neighbours of Israel still want their heads, you've been brainwashed. First, Jordan, except the hatred at start and declarations after against Israel, in recent past I don't remember them even saying they want your head anymore, I only remember them saying they want a Palestine, which is a resonable stance.
    Then, Egypt, after you made peace with them, they recognized Israel and they were ok since 1980's or so. Now they even changed leadership of their dictator. For now not sure with what, but I haven't heard them saying they want your head either.

    Then, Palestine, yes, I consider them a country, one run by two regimes though. The one in the Gaza strip does want to destroy Israel... since Israel keeps them fenced in a desert area and shoots on ships trying to get food in there, like they shot in the Turkey ships. It doesn't mean their stance with terrorists is fully justified, but it is understandable. Then you have the other part of Palestine, the West Bank, that's been trying to negociate with Palestine for years, and I remember it going like this:
    Palestine: " well maybe we can get to an agreement... hey, wait, what's with those military camps in our lands?"
    Israel: "they're there to protect our citzens from terrorists in your country"
    Palestine: "well fine... that's not very nice though since it's our... hold one, what are those settlements near those military camps?"
    Israel: " well those militaries need to live somewhere, don't they? By the way, we're building more military camps further inland to protect the new settlements"
    Palestine: "what? no, we're retreating from negociations!"
    Israel (to other nations): "See, I told you we can't reach an agreement with terrorists!"

    Then we have Syria... which everyone blames. So it's not so surprising a dictator that kills his own people also wants to kill people of neighbouring countries.
    And last, Lebanon, which you bombed until you grew bored, if you think that's a threat you're blind.

    And a few countries away (like 3 or so) there's Iran, who has a crazy prime-minister (since guess what, president at them = prime-minister in our countries, their true leader is not that crazy guy but rather Komeni or what's his name, a guy, who even though is not the brightest guy in the world, can still understand war over religion is dumb).

    Actually hold on, a few months ago the french president said something that romanians are all criminals and crap. So I can assume he's meaning to exterminate us... and France has nukes! We have to attack France! Does that sound stupid? Well it is, but it's same situation Iran and Israel are in.
    I valued your opinion until your last sentence. I'm sorry man but I dont see the correlation AT ALL. I read what you wrote but then I compare the 2 'issues' and its vastly different. You have what seems to be political strife between Romania and France (I am not even aware of this issue) and then you have religious and geo-political strife between Israel and Iran. Iran continuously threatens to destroy Israel over and over, It's different when a kid threatens to destroy the world, you dont take him seriously but we're are talking about the entire political body of Iran WANTS ISRAEL GONE. There is strife between the Ayatollah and the President of Iran but on this issue they are damn well walking in sync on this. Now this same body of government is keeping their nuclear intentions a huge ? mark. It's a radical theological government that believes that Jews are the enemy and they are developing nuclear technology in some capacity. They keep saying 'oh its peaceful its peaceful' but yet to jerk everyone around they give the U.N. absolute shit access to these facilities and not a single person outside of their government has walked into these facilities and said 'yep no nuclear weapon processing going on here'. This can only lead to one conclusion to the Israeli government. The country that has the most absolute hatred for them are creating nuclear weapons. This is the entire underlying idea Israel is working with now. Iran can easily quell this if they conformed to the standards that many countries abide by. They refuse, now action must be taken. When Israel bombs Iran it will be a good thing for them, able to stretch out over their borders and assert their dominance, and on top of this... finally... the US can stay the hell outta some military action.

    Not everyone agrees with this assessment and that is fine, but it seems pretty clear to me that Iran is continuously stoking the fire looking to get burned. You put your hand in an open fire, it will get burned.

  15. #15
    Elemental Lord Snowraven's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stalemate View Post
    I valued your opinion until your last sentence. I'm sorry man but I dont see the correlation AT ALL. I read what you wrote but then I compare the 2 'issues' and its vastly different. You have what seems to be political strife between Romania and France (I am not even aware of this issue) and then you have religious and geo-political strife between Israel and Iran. Iran continuously threatens to destroy Israel over and over, It's different when a kid threatens to destroy the world, you dont take him seriously but we're are talking about the entire political body of Iran WANTS ISRAEL GONE. There is strife between the Ayatollah and the President of Iran but on this issue they are damn well walking in sync on this. Now this same body of government is keeping their nuclear intentions a huge ? mark. It's a radical theological government that believes that Jews are the enemy and they are developing nuclear technology in some capacity. They keep saying 'oh its peaceful its peaceful' but yet to jerk everyone around they give the U.N. absolute shit access to these facilities and not a single person outside of their government has walked into these facilities and said 'yep no nuclear weapon processing going on here'. This can only lead to one conclusion to the Israeli government. The country that has the most absolute hatred for them are creating nuclear weapons. This is the entire underlying idea Israel is working with now. Iran can easily quell this if they conformed to the standards that many countries abide by. They refuse, now action must be taken. When Israel bombs Iran it will be a good thing for them, able to stretch out over their borders and assert their dominance, and on top of this... finally... the US can stay the hell outta some military action.

    Not everyone agrees with this assessment and that is fine, but it seems pretty clear to me that Iran is continuously stoking the fire looking to get burned. You put your hand in an open fire, it will get burned.
    Ok, you're right, my example was not a religion debate.

    However, do you have proof the whole political body of Iran wants Israel gone?
    And about Iran not showing anyone about their nuclear program, here's a link:
    http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/...8250BQ20120306

    "When Israel bombs Iran it will be a good thing for them" - you know, I have to ask this, are you serious? Taking innocent lives (since let's be honest, even if you use your more precise missles you'll still hit other people, this not counting that Iran might actually not have a nuclear missle program, but a nuclear energy one) is a horrible thing to do.

    No, when Israel bombs Iran there's a high chance China and Russia (who are both taking oil from Iran, and a lot of it too) will attack Israel. And Israel will be supported by USA? This is not a regional conflict, this can burst.
    And even if it does not, think about the fact, that unlike in Irak, here many people are actually ok with the leadership. Now tell me, let's say Israel launches an attack and kills said leadership, what do you think the normal people will think? Let me tell you, it will turn said leaders into martyrs and cement the idea that Israel is bad and must be destroyed in the minds of not only a small percent of the population, but the majority. You'll actually bring yourself the hatred of many people who, until an attack, had nothing to do with you and also thought, like me, that the Iranian president is a madman.
    And of course let's also assume that you attack Iran... and don't even find nuclear missle building sites, then you'll not only bring Israel the hatred of all iranian people, but also the hatred of many other nations who'll start to think you went out of line. Just think of what people think of Bush and Irak... now imagine it that instead of attacking a country where people weren't happy he attacked a country where people are happy, and a country supported by major powers already, and you wouldn't be at the helm of a superpower, but a small strip of land.

  16. #16
    I highly doubt it would flare out to bring in Russia and China. China absolutely needs us to buy their goods, not only that, their military (although upgrading) is not near as technologically advanced as what we give Israel and what we have. Russia... well they cant even control their own southern muslim regions, I doubt they'll start shit. Iran's nuclear facility has been placed on site of a military base, no innocents there. I would ask Israel while they are it, to destroy the drone plane that landed within their borders not too long ago.

    Iran's political system is not in anyway comparable to the systems Europe and the West as a whole has. The Ayatollah is the Supreme Leader of Iran, he has absolute power and has the authority to countermand any directive or action the President undertakes. The President is the leader of the government, although that seems to be called into question lately as of their recent elections. The government officials who are take political offices or hold any type of responsibility are rank and file subordinates to the Ayatollah. The only proposed 'opposition' is the conservatives led by the President, in which case the election proved that he has lost almost all his support. It has been reported many times that the Ayatollah and President bump heads on certain issues, but Israel is not one of them. When an entire nation does not recognize Israel as a sovereign state then it's pretty clear they don't like you at all. Their regime is constantly quoted as saying things along the lines of 'we will kill all zionists', Yes that bluntly.

    Russia's economy is not that great as it is, Putin is just re-elected and he's not going to be looking to start any shit. As long we let the Israelis and Iranians duke it out without international foreign aid, I dont see there being an issue. You say oil, but I say no one is looking to take it. Israel isn't looking at trying to completely wipe out Iran, they are just looking to make sure Iran has nothing that can potentially wipe them out. For that, I say 'good thing for them'. Iran is an extremist theology, they call the President a moderate but I call it irony.

    I dont mind if Israel pulls the Holocaust card, it's got a lot more credibility and support than black people pulling out slavery. Although I will agree that Israel does keep it fresh on their minds, sometimes they are justified. Hell, they are still hunting Nazis and they should.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six-Day_War Take a good read into it. Look how many Arab nations tried to reclaim Israel without our military intervention. Israel was caught off guard by the strength and alliance that was formed to destroy them and Israel completely annihilated them. Jordan and Egypt you mentioned, were humiliated. Those countries now realize it is folly to try and destroy Israel, they 'get' it now. Just because they make peace with them doesn't mean they like or want Israel there.

    Also, see Yom Kippur war.
    Last edited by Stalemate; 2012-03-16 at 08:34 PM.

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