Thread: Formula 1 2012

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  1. #161
    You have to give it to Pirelli though, those tyres turned the drivers procession over 57 laps into a race, with OVERTAKING. Prior to this weekend it was assumed that overtaking was pretty much impossible, unless you had the straight line top speed advantage of a McLaren over an HRT (>20kph top speed) and DRS. If it wasn't for those tyres, and Vettel+Grosjean retiring you would only have needed to look at the qualifying results to determine the finishing classification.
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  2. #162
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    It has created exciting and unpredictable racing but at the same time it feels a little fake. The best drivers can instantly find themselves in a car that isnt capable of doing anything because the tyres decided it was time to die. They cannot drive at the edge of their ability like the days of old because they are mostly trying to manage the tyres and the way to set up the car is not to make it fast but to make it take care of the tyres.

    Basically it is a race of hoping you made the right strategy choice so that you dont find yourself on useless tyres with a few laps to go, which involves a lot of not driving as fast as you're really capable of. The drop off in performance on the tyres is so massive and happens really fast, it does not leave a driver with any real chance to fight when he is in that situation.

    So the main reason we see so many overtakes with the Pirelli is simple, when the tyres start to go they simply disapear and that allows cars with still alive tyres to simply drive past without issue.


    I'm not saying I dont like it, because this year has been awesome, but the tyres dictate everything, Pirelli could easily fix the championship if they so wished, or thats how it feels to me.

  3. #163
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    Canada was pretty boring up until the end. Had Red Bull and (especially) Ferrari not messed up their strategies Hamilton wouldn't have been nearly as strong. Vettel seemed a touch weak, but Alonso at the very least could've put up a better fight had his team stuck with a 2-stopper.

    Valencia...holy bathplug. Splendid. Barring Abu Dhabi 2010 and Canada 2011 I'd dare say that it was the best race we've had in the last 2.5 years. I still fully believe that the collision was Hamilton's fault. There was no way in hell that he was going to keep his podium for a full lap and a half, and pushing Maldonado off the track was just stupid. Which is disappointing, because he would've won the race had Macca not had problems with the stops yet again.

    Any predictions for Silverstone? McLaren have a great deal of upgrades planned for the next race apparently, so I wouldn't be surprised if Hamilton dominated. We all know how strong he's there.



    My Canada ratings (take 'em with a grain of salt, it's been over two weeks):
    Sebastian Vettel
    Q: 10 | R: 6 | Average: 8 | F1R: 7
    Off Alonso's and Hamilton's pace.

    Mark Webber
    Q: 8 | R: 5 | Average: 6.5->7 | F1R: 6
    Even worse...

    Jenson Button
    Q: 6 | R: 1 | Average: 3.5->4 | F1R: 0
    In all fairness, I don't think he even deserves a 1. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt after Monaco and after Canada's qualifying session, but he was so incredibly poor in the race. Murdered his tyres (stopped 3 times) and still had shit pace. Worst Driver

    Lewis Hamilton
    Q: 9 | R: 10 | Average: 9.5->10 | F1R: 10
    Hamilton and Kovalainen, redux. Or should I say Alonso and Massa?

    Fernando Alonso
    Q: 9 | R: 7 | Average: 8 | F1R: 8
    Unfortunate. Ferrari screwed him over.

    Felipe Massa
    Q: 8 | R: 5 | Average: 6.5->7 | F1R: 6
    See Alonso. Made silly mistakes, but had great pace. He was catching Webber before the spin, and after the spin he made short work of Schumacher and Di Resta and nearly caught Kobayashi despite the strategy blunder.

    Michael Schumacher
    Q: 7 | R: 6 | Average: 6.5->7 | F1R: 6
    MERCEDES?!

    Nico Rosberg
    Q: 8 | R: 7 | Average: 7.5->8 | F1R: 7
    That move with Massa and Perez disgusted me. First Bahrain and now this? He needs to be punished.

    Kimi Raikkonen
    Q: 5 | R: 6 | Average: 5.5->6 | F1R: 6
    Um...no.

    Romain Grosjean
    Q: 8 | R: 10 | Average: 9 | F1R: 9
    Um...yes! Beautiful race from him. If he had one or two more laps...(but then this also applies to Perez and Vettel, so yeah.)

    Paul di Resta
    Q: 8.5 | R: 6 | Average: 7.25->7 | F1R: 7
    Off. It's a shame, because he was quite good in qualifying.

    Nico Hulkenberg
    Q: 7 | R: 6.5 | Average: 6.5->7 | F1R: 7
    About the same as Di Resta, only he was worse in quali.

    Kamui Kobayashi
    Q: 7 | R: 5 | Average: 6 | F1R: 6
    Barely in the points, almost caught by Massa (with the strategy blunder!) at the end...just no.

    Sergio Perez
    Q: 6 | R: 10 | Average: 8 | F1R: 10
    How did you do that?! And from 15th... Definitely offsets his poor qualifying position. Best Driver

    Daniel Ricciardo
    Q: 8 | R: 6.5 | Average: 7.25->7 | F1R: 7
    He spun and STILL outraced Vergne? That's actually nice for a change.

    Jean-Eric Vergne
    Q: 4 | R: 7 | Average: 5.5->6 | F1R: 6
    For once, he was weaker all around.

    Pastor Maldonado
    Q: 6 | R: 8.5 | Average: 7.25->7 | F1R: 8
    Even with the qualifying blunder, even with everything that's been going on with him as of late...he did a fine job. He beat Button and was on the lead lap. Can't say the same about Senna. Or Button.

    Bruno Senna
    Q: 6 | R: 1 | Average: 3.5->4 | F1R: 1
    Go home, Bruno Senna. Constantly proving that he's the worst driver on the grid, even below the likes of 2011!Massa, 2012!Button and Karthikeyan. He struggled with both Caterhams. His teammate, who started at the back, finished on the lead lap and just behind Hulkenberg. How do you even do that.

    Heikki Kovalainen
    Q: 7 | R: 7 | Average: 7 | F1R: 7
    I didn't see much of him, but was he seriously only 15 seconds behind the very guy who replaced him? In a Caterham?

    Vitaly Petrov
    Q: 6.5 | R: 6 | Average: 6.25->6 | F1R: 6
    Invisible.

    Pedro de la Rosa
    Q: 8 | R: 8 | Average: 8 | F1R: 8
    HRT, amigos...I'm sorry, but you don't belong in F1. (I'm talking about the team, not Pedro. Pedro was amazing, considering the circumstances.)

    Narain Karthikeyan
    Q: 4 | R: 3 | Average: 3.5->4 | F1R: 3
    You, on the other hand, were one second slower than your teammate in qualifying, and were all-round poor. Don't expect me to go easy on you.

    Timo Glock
    Q: 6 | R: 5 | Average: 5.5->6 | F1R: 5
    Invisible. No idea why he retired.

    Charles Pic
    Q: 6 | R: 4 | Average: 5 | F1R: 4
    No pace. Would've probably beaten the HRTs though...


    My Valencia ratings:
    Sebastian Vettel
    Q: 10 | R: 10 | Average: 10 | F1R: 10
    The retirement wasn't his fault at all, the safety car caught him at a very inopportune moment and, prior to all of that, he was demolishing the field. And that's without mentioning his amazing Q3 lap. Giving him anything other than a 10 would not exactly be fair for anyone. Except, of course, the Webber circlejerkers. Best Driver

    Mark Webber
    Q: N/A | R: 9 | Average: 9 | F1R: 9
    You don't just go from 19th to 4th and get away with it. Even with all the retirements and incidents. Much like Alonso, however, he was massively lucky. Couldn't beat Schumacher in a better car, so he doesn't get a 10.

    Lewis Hamilton
    Q: 9 | R: 8.5 | Average: 8.75->9 | F1R: 9
    Unfortunate with the pit stop, and considering the circumstances (Macca not exactly being all that good anymore) he put in a great Q3 time, but for once, the phrase "Hamilton's fault" can be used in a proper situation. He pushed Maldonado off the track and suffered the consequences. Fully deserved it. I still feel really sorry for him though. Should have won that. The pit crew screwed him up yet again. The only thing that's stopping me from giving him full marks is the incident with Maldonado.

    Jenson Button
    Q: 7 | R: 3 | Average: 5 | F1R: 4
    So many incidents happening in front of him, plus a safety car, and yet all he can manage (with a Macca, no less) is a P8? He was being beaten by goddamn Massa. MASSA.

    Fernando Alonso
    Q: 8 | R: 10 | Average: 9 | F1R: 10
    I don't know who I should blame for his Q2 exit, especially as he only missed out by .004s, but anyone saying he wasn't lucky is worthy of a RotR nomination. Even so, that was a stupendously brilliant drive. That undercut was a thing of the Gods, I tell you.

    Felipe Massa
    Q: 8 | R: 5 | Average: 6.5->7 | F1R: 6
    Ngh. What are you doing, Felipe. I was willing to give him the benefit of the doubt for only getting beaten by .07s in Q2, not to mention that his collision with Kobayashi greatly damaged his car, but even before that he wasn't exactly doing anything impressive. Admittedly, according to Ferrari he suffered damage to the rear of the car around lap 6, which was causing him to lose a second per lap. Not sure if I'm willing to believe that, although it does look like he had major issues with the medium compound, so it might be true after all. And sure enough, according to the lap charts he was matching Alonso on pace until he suffered that damage, so I guess he deserves more.

    Michael Schumacher
    Q: 7 | R: 10 | Average: 8.5->9 | F1R: 10
    GLORIOUS. I burst into tears when he passed Maldonado. This is what happens when everyone suffers the same bad luck he does. Fully deserved his podium finish.

    Nico Rosberg
    Q: 8 | R: 6 | Average: 7 | F1R: 6
    Where was he? He was barely staying faster than Michael, and yet he had to stop an extra time...?

    Kimi Raikkonen
    Q: 8.5 | R: 7.5 | Average: 8 | F1R: 8
    Hamilton schooled him. Acting like a fraidy cat won't get you anywhere, and I'm saying this as someone who hates on-track aggression.

    Romain Grosjean
    Q: 9 | R: 9.5 | Average: 9.25->9 | F1R: 9
    I screamed in joy when his car failed. He lucked out almost as much as Alonso did with that safety car, and seemed to lack pace compared to both Vettel and Alonso despite having clean air.

    Paul di Resta
    Q: 8.5 | R: 8 | Average: 8.25->8 | F1R: 8
    Made the 1-stopper work. Rather surprised by that, considering how much he was dropping back at the end of the first stint.

    Nico Hulkenberg
    Q: 8 | R: 8.5 | Average: 8.25->8 | F1R: 8
    Had a much clearer strategy than his teammate, and it worked.

    Kamui Kobayashi
    Q: 9 | R: 1 | Average: 5 | F1R: 2
    Initially had great pace, but then he ruined the races of both Senna and Massa. Fully deserves the penalty. Worst Driver

    Sergio Perez
    Q: 6 | R: 7 | Average: 6.5->7 | F1R: 7
    Lacked pace all throughout. Nothing else to say.

    Daniel Ricciardo
    Q: 7 | R: 9 | Average: 8 | F1R: 9
    Between him and Petrov, I don't know who to blame for that incident. They ruined each other's races. What a shame. According to F1Fanatic he had better pace than Perez, Rosberg, Button and a whole slew of other drivers in a Toro Rosso, so how others can only give him a rating of 5 or lower is way beyond me.

    Jean-Eric Vergne
    Q: 6 | R: 2 | Average: 4 | F1R: 3
    Piss poor, and the incident was his fault.

    Pastor Maldonado
    Q: 10 | R: 7.5 | Average: 8.75->9 | F1R: 9
    Unfortunate at the end. Not the greatest pace though.

    Bruno Senna
    Q: 6 | R: 2 | Average: 4 | F1R: 3
    Doesn't deserve his seat at all, but this time the collision really wasn't his fault. That penalty was laughable. Nevertheless, he had NO pace whatsoever, not even compared to Maldonado, who was also struggling.

    Heikki Kovalainen
    Q: 9 | R: 7 | Average: 8 | F1R: 8
    A seemingly good weekend, hampered by a KERS failure and Vergne. Unfortunate, but then Petrov suffered some bad luck as well, so I can't give Heikki that much credit.

    Vitaly Petrov
    Q: 7 | R: 9 | Average: 8 | F1R: 9
    As I said, I don't know who to blame for that incident. Damn shame. Would've been terrific to see him score a point. (which he might've, considering the incident at the end!)

    Pedro de la Rosa
    Q: 8 | R: 7 | Average: 7.5->8 | F1R: 8
    Invisible. But then that's what you're doomed to be when you're driving an HRT.

    Narain Karthikeyan
    Q: 7 | R: 5 | Average: 6 | F1R: 5
    Had some hilarious(ly bad) moments. At least he learned his lesson and moved out of the way of Hamilton and Maldonado instead of causing them a puncture like he did with Vettel.

    Timo Glock
    Q: Out cold. | R: Out cold. | Average: Out cold.->Out cold. | F1R: Out cold.
    Out cold.

    Charles Pic
    Q: 6 | R: 5 | Average: 5.5->6 | F1R: 5
    That stupid overtaking attempt cost him and Narain a good bit of time. Didn't see much of him otherwise.
    Last edited by Coffer; 2012-06-27 at 08:47 PM.

  4. #164
    I am Murloc! Xanjori's Avatar
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    I still fully believe that the collision was Hamilton's fault.
    No. Hamilton held the racing line all around that corner, if his car had been on fire with no wheels it still wouldnt have been his fault. The moment Maldonado's car left the race track he HAS to concede the corner and the position, to put his car on the kerb like that and lose control is flat out crap driving, the fact he only got a 20 second penatly and therefore loses only 1 point was pretty sad, he deserved at least a 5-10 slot grid penalty for the next race.
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  5. #165
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    No. Hamilton held the racing line all around that corner, if his car had been on fire with no wheels it still wouldnt have been his fault. The moment Maldonado's car left the race track he HAS to concede the corner and the position, to put his car on the kerb like that and lose control is flat out crap driving, the fact he only got a 20 second penatly and therefore loses only 1 point was pretty sad, he deserved at least a 5-10 slot grid penalty for the next race.


    That's one hell of a racing line. It even looks intentional.

  6. #166
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    Erm yes thats the racing line, seeing as he has just come off the corner.

    At the end of the day it was Maldonado's inexperienced (and bad) driving that took them both out, its a close track and Hamiltons car is losing grip, there were 2-3 safe places to pass where Hamilton would have been totally unable to defend. Instead he tried to threw it round the outside going into a right-left and then made a total mess of it.

    Pretty much every commentator or ex-F1 driver has called it out as a huge Maldonado mistake.
    Last edited by Xanjori; 2012-06-28 at 12:32 AM.
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  7. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Erm yes thats the racing line, seeing as he has just come off the corner.
    Then just about everything can be considered a racing line. Hell, Lewis himself had at least one wheel off the white line halfway through the first corner.

    While Maldonado should have just cut the corner and given the position back afterwards, he was ahead for over half a second at the entry to the corner, meaning Hamilton should've given him enough space as per the regulations (which also kills any sort of "there was no gap" excuse). Hamilton was ruthless. He's done it before and he's been close to or outright succeeded in taking people out of races with similar moves in the past, and this move was no different. Both drivers were overly aggressive, and that's clear for all to see, but Hamilton's push was the tipping point.

    In all fairness, however, the FIA have already shown their incompetence earlier on in the season by not penalizing Rosberg (or even Hamilton) in Bahrain, so it doesn't surprise me that Hamilton thought he could get away with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Pretty much every commentator or ex-F1 driver has called it out as a huge Maldonado mistake.
    Button and Prost said that the current racing might damage F1's credibility. The fans' reaction alone shows that the (ex-)drivers themselves are not always in the right. And I don't even agree with the fans there.
    Last edited by Coffer; 2012-06-28 at 12:41 AM.

  8. #168
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    Except the issue is that Maldonados car is OFF the track, at which point he HAS to concede, regardless of what went on earlier in the corner. Especially as the whole crash comes about due to him driving over the kerb, losing his front wheels on the track and being unable to turn his car away from Hamiltons.
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  9. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Except the issue is that Maldonados car is OFF the track, at which point he HAS to concede, regardless of what went on earlier in the corner. Especially as the whole crash comes about due to him driving over the kerb, losing his front wheels on the track and being unable to turn his car away from Hamiltons.
    As I said when I edited my post earlier, that was caused by Hamilton himself stepping outside the white line just before the kerb as well.

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coffer View Post
    As I said when I edited my post earlier, that was caused by Hamilton himself stepping outside the white line just before the kerb as well.
    Mostly because he has no grip? He cant make the tighter line if his tyres wont allow him.
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  11. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xanjori View Post
    Mostly because he has no grip? He cant make the tighter line if his tyres wont allow him.
    He even broke early to ensure that he stayed on the track and still failed. That alone should have suggested that he concede the position.

    Also, checking Maldonado's on-board view, staying on the track was impossible, simply because three quarters of Hamilton's car were blocking any way out, mostly due to Lewis being behind at the entry. Maldonado's part of the blame comes from the fact that he could've cut it completely, but with Schumacher and Webber coming (lapping at least one second faster than Maldonado and two seconds faster than Hamilton) and those yellow and black lines slowing him down, he could've lost far more than just P3 (or, at the very least, he would've been much too far away to catch Lewis in the remaining 1.33 laps), hence why I blame Hamilton more.

    EDIT: Okay, nevermind, Hulkenberg and Schumacher were 7 seconds behind at that point, so I'm willing to concede that.
    Last edited by Coffer; 2012-06-28 at 12:55 AM.

  12. #172
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    Lewis is still a dumb fuck... I honestly hoped he would rather finnish 4th or 5h than not getting point at all specially now that Svettel was sure not to get anyone.. That was dumb as hell, and really McLaren.. I thought you had practiced pitstop? I wonder how that race would have turned out if they didn't fuck Lewis' pitstop up under the SC..
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  13. #173
    There were at least 4 passing points at which Maldonad could have got past Hamilton and not been within a meter of him. But no, he has to try to take him on a corner that is extremely hard to over-take on at the best of times, slip off the track and drive right in to Hamilton's side pod when trying to rejoin the track. He would have had to concede the position anyway had he won it due to cutting the corner with all 4 wheels or risk a 20 second penalty as it was too late for a drive-through. He knew Ham's tyres were dead. He knows what happens if your tyres drop off the cliff. He just had to be patient and overtake him 300 meters later.

    Definitely Maldonado's fault, should have got a grid penalty at Silverstone for it.

    Anyway, Hamilton would have been first and over 5 seconds ahead of Alonso at that point in the race had McLaren not fucked up the pit stop (yet again). It is getting pathetic how they manage to mess up every single bloody pit stop.
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  14. #174
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    The collision was Maldonado's fault. I do a lot of sim racing online, used to kart as a child, even did the Valencia GP myself on the F1 2011 game before watching the race (so had a good insight on how the track is driven). The first thing that instantly came to my mind was

    1. Oh my god if he doesnt lift hes gonna crash into hamilton.
    2. Oh no worries he went off the track, he can either fall back in behind hamilton or just cut the corner and make sure he doesnt try to pass until after the next corner (to avoid penalty for gaining an advantage)

    No instead, he doesnt lift to fall back in and he doesnt cut the corner but instead tries to rejoin the track at that point. The problem is that there was no space for him to rejoin, he had 3 options and one of those options was a certain collision with Hamilton.

    I may not be a racing driver, but I could read that situation as very simple, as the stewards and pretty much everyone else in the business did and that is that it was Maldonado's mistake. Its almost as if he goes into tunnel vision and rational thought processes disapear. Maldonado needed only to lift, fall back in behind and then retake lewis on the next straight, lewis had the position and it is the responsibility of the passing car to find its way through safely.


    The sad thing is that Maldonado is a really fast driver, but he has issues with his anger and issues with his patience, he needs to learn to think ahead more, he threw away a podium by trying to bully his way past in a corner, when he could have waited and easily taken the position just 1 corner later (on the straight).
    Last edited by Bigbazz; 2012-06-29 at 06:12 AM.

  15. #175
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    While Maldonado should have just cut the corner and given the position back afterwards, he was ahead for over half a second at the entry to the corner, meaning Hamilton should've given him enough space as per the regulations (which also kills any sort of "there was no gap" excuse). Hamilton was ruthless. He's done it before and he's been close to or outright succeeded in taking people out of races with similar moves in the past, and this move was no different. Both drivers were overly aggressive, and that's clear for all to see, but Hamilton's push was the tipping point.

    Even if you consider Hamilton should have let him past, there is still absolutely no excuse for just plain Tboning someone because you feel you're entitled to that part of the track.

    It is the Driver who isn't on the track's responsibility to re-enter the track safely. Maldonado SHOULD at that point use the run off and just pass Hamilton safely.
    There is absolutely no excuse for Maldonado colliding with Hamilton when there's a run off the size of Korea. Arguing against that is ridiculous.

    And personally if i was on the penultimate lap fighting for the world championship i would not let him past either. It's still a position, he's not being lapped, he does not have pieces hanging off the car, he just has hardly any grip. The car is still in contention and does not have to allow him past. It's Maldonado's job to pass safely, not Hamilton's job to let Maldonado through. Hamilton made his one move across to block and took the corner the exact same way he had done all race. Re-watch the race if you don't agree and you'll see both McLaren's struggling with understeer through that corner.

  16. #176
    Nice one Glock, fucked up at least three final timed laps.
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  17. #177
    The Lightbringer Bigbazz's Avatar
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    Qualifying session has been insane, might aswel be watching a boat race.

  18. #178
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    Oxford and Cambridge are considering using Silverstone for their next race.

  19. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fengore View Post
    Oxford and Cambridge are considering using Silverstone for their next race.
    Ha de ha, Im wondering how many will even get that one though :P

    I missed qualifing due to being asleep! However perhaps not surprising Alonso stuck it on pole, shame about Lewis and Jenson (I believe Jenson said he was probably on the quickest lap and backed off due to yellows) which is a bit crappy. Still, silverstone is always a good race and with how its been this year we should be in for a treat tomorrow
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  20. #180
    Jenson was over 1.5 seconds ahead of 17th before the yellow flag went up.
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