1. #1
    Blademaster Jazzster's Avatar
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    H Madness - 10Man Healing Concern.

    Hello, I am Jazzster, Holy Paladin - Healing Officer of Primarch - US Galakrond. I have some information to post and I'm looking for suggestions or words of improvement or to tell my healers to step-it-up. We are a 7/8 H guild pushing towards H Madness. Our healing composition contains: Holy Paladin, Restoration Shaman, and Discipline Priest with a Holy Priest currently on the sidelines. We are perfecting platform 4 but we tend to find ourselves gimping each other when we are 1 tank/3 heal/6 dps; because impale sometimes our soaker gets melee'd before they take the impale but that's also due because our feral druid is absent to switch forms and take it head on without the gimpiness' of our Rogue or Priest using CDs to mitigate the damage. We have had zero experience in P2 but still focusing on perfecting Platform 4, our healers seem to be mana starved.

    My Post now will review my concerns along with links to our healing composition and our progression through, please take a second to analyze these.
    WoL: http://www.worldoflogs.com/guilds/181967/
    Holy Paladin:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...zster/advanced
    Discipline Priest:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ascoh/advanced
    Restoration Shaman:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ernia/advanced
    Holy Priest:http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...nesea/advanced

    Concerns:
    • I find myself doubling/tripling our healer output. I am a Holy Paladin, yes. Go figure.
    • My Restoration Shaman has had previous issues with Buff Uptimes and output concerning her class.
    • My Discipline Priest is having mana issues on the 4th Platform. Shadowfiend, Hymn of Hope, and Rapture don't seem to be that high as previous logs.
    • Inconsistant attempts, I can't fix that.
    • I'm using CDs more and more every so often because our healers can't keep up with the damage.
    • I outgear our healers, but logs show that less geared healers have killed this boss with even 2 healing.

    I'm looking at logs and I'm just not impressed with our current stage of progression. I would love to 2 heal this fight but my healing composition doesn't look like they could handle it. I killed Heroic Ragnaros back in November during Progression. We've easily killed Heroic Spine and that has to be my favorite fight, but now where healing actually matters, they're both going OOM on the 3rd-4th Platform, I don't see a possibility in P2 with our healers being at that state. They both say that it's a matter of gear. I can agree/disagree but again, people in less gear have outperformed them on this fight/kill.

    I can outperform both our Restoration Shaman and Discipline Priest on Alternative toons in Heroic Firelands gear. How can I fix and help out my healers? Any information would be outstanding at this point! If I can't find any information or feedback, I'll be lost in a state of confusion. Thank you MMO!

    Please leave suggestion below and let me know how I can help perfect them and increase there healing. This is not a backpack fight which I feel like I am doing but I don't want to credit myself for that. My healers are outstanding but I do know that in certain areas, including myself, can greatly increase output and throughput. Thank you! - Jazzster

  2. #2
    You have 2 paladins, so BOP your shadowpriest before he soaks every impale - then melee swings can't hit him, and he can just wait for the impale to start casting. Alternative, having your hunter in melee range with deterrence, then feigning when the corruption casts impale is supposed to work, too.

    As for healing output, you all seem to be doing fine. Hpallys will smash anything but a proper resto druid.
    Your shaman should be LB'ing when cataclysm hits to get full mana, which means (s)he can spam every last drop of mana away up untill the cataclysm hits, and start every platform with full mana again.
    As for your disc priest, he should deffo be taking advantage of Atonement + Archangel. Spamming smite on the first 3 platforms means that he'll be burst healing either the tank, or the smash target, faster than any other healer can (he's already casting the heal that will target the lowest HP person when it's swinging, instead of after). The 20% more healing will be very beneficial during blistering tentacles and other healing intensive phases, he'll help your overall damage a bit (about 15k singletarget dps with the buffs I'd estimate). Along with this, Archangel on CD would restore him about 90-100K mana over the fight, helping his mana issues greatly (not to mention smite spam is cheaper than anything else).
    If he has mana issues, he should not bother with Surge of Light and Desperate prayer - actually, he shouldn't under any circumstances. Get 2/2 veiled shadows.
    He also wants glyph of penance, ALWAYS. Change barrier/shield around, not barrier/penance, depending on if barrier is important for the specific fight.

  3. #3
    I notice you posted in the priest and shaman forums with questions about those classes so you'll get much more specific detail about them from there, so i'll focus on more general advice. 3-healing in your gear, none of you should be going even close to oom.

    Presumably you know to use mana regen cds effectively; you should be using mana tide on cd, you have four hymn of hopes throughout the fight if you coordinate your priests (and from your logs at the moment YOU ARE NOT USING ANY!!), during cataclysm your disc priest can shadowfiend and your shaman can LB for most of their mana back, you might have a deficit at the start of platform 4 which is when I usually conc pot (although you have more HoH than I have so this should not happen for you). --> all of this means that all three of your healers should be starting every platform except the 5th with pretty much full mana.

    Also, you're not really outperforming them, in fact on some of the longer fights the Shaman is doing more healing, which is quite significant when you consider class constraints.
    I only looked at your longest attempts for the best indication, and I'll put some brief pally notes here, seeing as you posted in the Shaman and Priest forums but not in the Paladin one;

    - Your judgments of the pure uptime is very low. All but one 8min+ attempt had BELOW 80% JotP uptime. You are losing a lot of mana regen from this and therefore healing output. I would recommend creating a clear power aura to inform you when JotP is down so you know to cast Judgment.

    - Use divine plea more. Better yet, begin using your hymns of hope and sync your DP with it.

    - Your cleansing flames procs seem quite low, make sure you are positioned in a way that has your stacked raid in front of you for maximum mace procs (you should already be doing this for LoD... )

    - You can always use your Lay Hands as a mana pot instead of an oh shit button (Glyph of Divinity).

    - Use Heartsong. It gives back more mana than PT and is clearly better for progression.

    - You could be using throughput cooldowns better (again, more healing you do the less they have to) besides which, our 2p means DF is big efficiency cd. I'll try and map out what I do to maximise their effective usage but you should use Cds in a way that suits other members' use of cds.

    FIRST PLATFORM: DF/AW second blisterings.

    SECOND PLATFORM: AW second blisterings.

    THIRD PLATFORM: DF first blisterings, AW second blisterings.

    FOURTH PLATFORM: GoaK the elementium blast, AW/DF second blisterings.


    Maybe you're not going oom until the others run dry and stop healing, but that's no reason for you not to improve your mana conservation. The more mana you have throughout the fight, the more healing you can do earlier on, and the less healing your teammates have to do and therefore the longer they will last.

    Even if you're the strongest healer in your team you should not be averse to trying to do better. Whether you're topping the meters or not there's always something to improve. Even if you end up carrying, a kill is a kill.

    Most of your longer wipes seem to be where healing has petered off significantly and then you have deaths to crush/parasite damage (ie not enough healing). And your dps seem to be performing quite well, so if you can sort out the throughput problems and push past the fourth platform the fight should be an easy win.
    Last edited by PalawinFC; 2012-03-20 at 01:23 AM.

  4. #4
    Blademaster Jazzster's Avatar
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    You are losing a lot of mana regen from this and therefore healing output.
    Judgement no longer gives mana regen, lol?

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzster View Post
    Judgement no longer gives mana regen, lol?
    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=54151/j...ts-of-the-pure

    It used to give % mana every time you judged and you would have to use it on CD to maximize.
    Now it is a 1 min duration buff. (judge once a minute, in an ideal world).

    Your buff is only up 70-80% of the time, which means that you are missing out on +30% spirit and +9% haste for a quarter of the fight.

  6. #6
    Blademaster Jazzster's Avatar
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    1. 30% more spirit while in combat is effective throughout the encounter/whatever. It's not a buff, it works the same way it does with Priest. 30% Spirit all day.
    2. It does not give mana back anymore from T11/T12. T13 took away the mana gain from Judgement.
    3. I'm aware I have a ratio of 75% during our attempts to where I don't judge. Usually I let it fall off when switching platforms but can be easily fixed.

    Thank you though.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzster View Post
    1. 30% more spirit while in combat is effective throughout the encounter/whatever. It's not a buff, it works the same way it does with Priest. 30% Spirit all day.
    2. It does not give mana back anymore from T11/T12. T13 took away the mana gain from Judgement.
    3. I'm aware I have a ratio of 75% during our attempts to where I don't judge. Usually I let it fall off when switching platforms but can be easily fixed.

    Thank you though.
    This is very incorrect.

    The 30% spirit and 9% haste are a buff. The buff is called Judgements of the Pure. This buff requires you to cast Judgement to apply it for 60 seconds.

    25% of a 10 minute (your longest?) wipe is 2 minutes and 30 seconds. You do not spend 2 minutes and 30 seconds between platforms. You are losing a SIGNIFICANT amount of mana regen and throughput.

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzster View Post
    1. 30% more spirit while in combat is effective throughout the encounter/whatever. It's not a buff, it works the same way it does with Priest. 30% Spirit all day.
    2. It does not give mana back anymore from T11/T12. T13 took away the mana gain from Judgement.
    3. I'm aware I have a ratio of 75% during our attempts to where I don't judge. Usually I let it fall off when switching platforms but can be easily fixed.

    Thank you though.
    Yea. No. You're wrong. The 30% spirit is tied to the judgement :x.

  9. #9
    Yeah I play a h paladin, and am currently 8/8H you can look at my logsHere Don't bother looking at our recent kill i lagged out and just did terrible lol. But looking at the shaman and it seems like he/she is not keeping down healing rain which is REALLY BIG. And something you could do you self I have not personally tried it because the healing wasn't a problem for us but you could go all mastery for this fight and it would bring up your healing quite a bit (might want to look more into I know people who have but not sure how much greater it would be) . But yeah our resto druid/me for the 1-3 platforms blow the shaman away but on the fourth and the final phase thats where he really comes in helps a ton. Also put heartsong on your weapon if you need the mana, might sound like a noob thing but most people use it for H madness. For the priest I have nothing and know nothing about them lol sry. I haven't played or healed with a priest ever

    I actually had our 1st kill on video if you would like to watch here: (gets kinda laggy at points)

    P1: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b28oU304sME
    P2: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5U7yvbmwz0Q
    Last edited by Acidd06; 2012-03-19 at 09:24 AM.

  10. #10
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    Not a major thing, but if you're struggling with mana...

    I didn't check your whole raid, but just from checking your shaman and priest healers, the priest used Dream once and the shaman 0 times in your whole night of wipes. Granted, you only have it on the first platform, but that's ridiculous.

  11. #11
    The Patient Chort's Avatar
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    Do you think it is possible to 2 heal this fight with resto shaman and resto druid ? If yes, can you give some tips or links to some guides?

  12. #12
    From youre logs, i can see that youre uptime of JotP is low but thats already mentioned. You're shaman is not using healing rain enough as it should have near a 90-95% uptime because youre supposed to use it on CD. It really depends on where to use it but usually its best to have it on your melee group during corruption burn phases. Also your priests aren't using any Hymn of Hopes? should be able to have 1 popped every platform for mana. Also have your healer roll into heartsong weapon enchant. And for gods sake, use dream! There is nothing that 'requires' dream to be used in ph1 so just use it on CD to soak as much dmg as you can or use it when you expect a dmg burst, like the parasite explosion. Also i haven't seen our pally do mastery stacking yet but i believe he will try it due to it popping out more output in this fight. We havn't killed it quite yet but we have had many sub 5% attempts on first night. Also, you're mage should be doing more dps. His AVG Ignite is 19k, aka, hes not timing pyroblast properly, i can get up to 100k ignites with cataclysm and easy 30-40k ignites without. So thats another thing you might need to look at for a kill
    TLDR: Change weapon enchant, more uptime on spells, and use dream on CD. Get your mage to practice timing in LFR with ignites.

  13. #13
    Deleted
    Just had a look over the logs, and I'm seeing you as the lowest output healer of the lot tbh. Probably shammy is having to spam in cata to compensate and fking up her mana for it etc. 3 aura masterys in a 15 min try rly? 3 avenging wraths? 66 holy shocks? And thats not even touching on the lack of judgements and your arrogance towards members here saying 'lol noneed judge t13 noob' Try fixing yourself before fixing the others.

  14. #14
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Chort View Post
    Do you think it is possible to 2 heal this fight with resto shaman and resto druid ? If yes, can you give some tips or links to some guides?
    Not much point in this. I haven't looked into it myself so don' take my word for it 100% but I have been told that the less DPSers you have the more each individual DPSer will proc spellweave, which basically means that stacking extra DPS has diminishing returns. If your guild has enough DPS to kill Spine then you should have more than enough DPS to 3 heal Madness, there's very little point in using 2.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Frostyspeed View Post
    From youre logs, i can see that youre uptime of JotP is low but thats already mentioned. You're shaman is not using healing rain enough as it should have near a 90-95% uptime because youre supposed to use it on CD. It really depends on where to use it but usually its best to have it on your melee group during corruption burn phases. Also your priests aren't using any Hymn of Hopes? should be able to have 1 popped every platform for mana. Also have your healer roll into heartsong weapon enchant. And for gods sake, use dream! There is nothing that 'requires' dream to be used in ph1 so just use it on CD to soak as much dmg as you can or use it when you expect a dmg burst, like the parasite explosion. Also i haven't seen our pally do mastery stacking yet but i believe he will try it due to it popping out more output in this fight. We havn't killed it quite yet but we have had many sub 5% attempts on first night. Also, you're mage should be doing more dps. His AVG Ignite is 19k, aka, hes not timing pyroblast properly, i can get up to 100k ignites with cataclysm and easy 30-40k ignites without. So thats another thing you might need to look at for a kill
    TLDR: Change weapon enchant, more uptime on spells, and use dream on CD. Get your mage to practice timing in LFR with ignites.
    I don't know why this was necro'd from a week and a half ago, but they've since killed it if you look at the WoL page.
    Alt-aholics Anonymous member since 2005.

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...totemic/simple
    85 Restoration Shaman, Elemental off-spec.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Jazzster View Post
    Judgement no longer gives mana regen, lol?
    Perhaps your guild should replace its healing officer!

  17. #17
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Deja Thoris View Post
    Perhaps your guild should replace its healing officer!
    I'd assume he means the judgement itself no longer gives 1k or so mana. Like it used to to pre patch. On side note we killed madness for the first time in 6 pull, had 5% wipe on second pull

  18. #18
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by RavenGage View Post
    Not much point in this. I haven't looked into it myself so don' take my word for it 100% but I have been told that the less DPSers you have the more each individual DPSer will proc spellweave, which basically means that stacking extra DPS has diminishing returns. If your guild has enough DPS to kill Spine then you should have more than enough DPS to 3 heal Madness, there's very little point in using 2.
    Doubt this is true as 4 healing it with like smite/mind searing priests would just make the encounter a lol :P

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