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  1. #1

    Before the Storm - Thoughts on the MoP Paladin

    I was going to do these for some other classes as well…..but to be honest, my heart isn’t in it this time.

    Retribution/Melee DPS
    Ret, as a spec, hasn't fared that well. It is a spec that has always been known for various issues. Even in LK when the system was seen as "fun", there were problems.

    HP was brought into solve some of those issues but it was rushed and implemented badly and the need to cover up its shortcomings in turn led to various mechanics...poor mechanics IMNSHO...being implemented. You want to control burst, so you add CDs but that creates gaps in the rotation. You want to tie haste into resource generation so you create Sanctity of Battle, but that in turn has to be balanced around planned end game values, even with starting level systems. And so on.

    It was hoped that Blizzard would be able to refine the HP system into viability for MoP. Instead, we see the system become much more restricted. Worse, Blizzard are keeping the poorly thought out mechanics and implementation that bedevilled Cataclysms design. They appear to be slightly improved, but the flaws with them lie with their base mechanics and the way they interact with the class and each other. That’s simply storing problems for later but it may very well be the case that the system will work despite these issues.

    Good news - Ret finally gets an AoE finisher. Well....builder AND finisher. More important is Boundless Conviction. Two minds about this….on the one hand, I can see possibilities in having a controlled mini-burst and it’s likely to be central in how Prot handles its finishers. On the other…it also creates much more room for mistakes; it makes the class much more forgiving. We’ll have to see how that plays out.

    Protection/Tanking

    Tanking is undergoing a fairly substantial change in MoP. We've already seen elements of it with the de-emphasis of threat generation recently. The idea is to move the tanking game from threat management to survival management. Blizzard has essentially surrendered here and is simply recognising that threat generation is simply the lowest priority there is for tanks....tanks went for survival and not DPS/threat.

    In several ways, a good thing.

    At the minute, we are starting to see the outline of the incoming active mitigation system. We are also starting to get a degree of information on the changes to block mechanics.

    My opinion?

    Spectacularly un-impressed. At the minute at least. We'll have to see how everything works before we can give a final judgement. Even so, I see several problems.

    Block is moving to a two roll system. And Block is gaining DR. This can and will work. And its obviously intended to remove the "problems" with block tanks. BUT..... it also means that Block is adversely affected by Avoidance. More avoidance means less chance to block. This, in turn, means that stacking Avoidance makes Mastery worse. It devalues it. Its counter intuitive. This isn't (IMO) a good thing. The changes are obviously meant to rein in the block mechanic but at the same time, all it really appears to be doing is adding unnecessary complexity without generating any additional benefit. The two roll system translates directly onto a one roll system. A lot of extra added complexity to perform the exact same role as simply nerfing Mastery.

    Mastery, as stated above, is negatively affected by avoidance. The more avoidance you have, the less value you get from Mastery. In addition, Mastery is - for paladins at least - a very, very boring stat. Necessary, but boring. It also has the disadvantage of providing the class with an ability it already has. Granted...noone guaranteed Mastery should be interesting but still, it’s a little disappointing that it is so boring.

    Vengeance is also being changed. This stat exists to allow Protadin DPS/threat to scale with their survivability. It’s had its issues in the past and the latest changes were made in response to the de-emphasis of threat. Personally, I think Vengeance as a solution is flawed in many ways (abnormally low base DPS, issues with off tanking, counter intuitive, etc) and there is, IMO, a strong argument to be made that it should, be removed. That still leaves the question of how to ensure tank threat/DPS scales with DPS.

    The rotation of the protadin is based upon HP generation. This is a good idea and strives to integrate HP into the class design. The problem is its implementation. As with Ret, Blizzard simply added "Generates 1 HP" to certain moves and hopes that will solve various issues. As with Ret...I don't believe it will, but it may be the case the system will still work, albeit in spite of these additions rather than because of them.

    As things stand, the spec will generate roughly 10 HP from Judgement per minute and 13 or so from CS. Add in 7 from GC, and you'll get a typical baseline generation of about 30HP per minute, or 1 every 2 seconds, enough for 1 finisher every 6 seconds. The problem is that the generation rate isn't steady. And that is a problem because it means that in between keeping EF/SS up - once every 30s - you won't get 100% uptime on the ShoR block mechanic. You can't anyway, because you'll spend time and HP keeping EF/SS up and running. Worse, a lot of HP is going to be wasted because you can't spend extra on WoG or procs. Thankfully BC will help here but even so, that just means a steadier flow of ShoR and even that will have to wait for enough procs to store the needed extra HP.

    But you'll have to choose.....WoG or ShoR? The design of the system to date seems to preclude mixing the two....spending HP on WoG and maintaining ShoR will be unlikely....the only result in most situations will be accepting a time frame when ShoR won't be active as its going to be problematic to store HP via BC to make this work. If DP were available this would be less of an issue as you could weave in WoG or renew ShoR with the DP procs without worrying about dropping your protection below normal.

    Overall, the system appears to be one designed not for survivability (at least, not directly) but for mana conservation. It won't matter which system you choose in the short term, as you'll have to survive without it and it will affect the spikiness as well but you'll need to keep the system active to ensure healers don't run OOM. Will all this make tanking fun? Will it turn Mastery into a dump stat- the one Paladins care nothing about? It probably won’t turn out to be that bad, but it does look like Mastery will be much less desirable in MoP than it is now.

    Other problems/issues/concerns? Consecration has a 9s CD and a 9s duration. Anyone from LK should recall the issues that system caused. Not a major issue.

    And the AOE rotation is poor. There is no true AoE finisher. You'll want to keep ShoR up so you switch from a AoE builder to a single target finisher. Prot has no Divine Storm equivalent. Technically, you could equate ShoR with TV but that also points out the sheer lack of choice.

    Paladins have always had a small toolkit and that has led to various issues such as overloading. Dividing it further between specs doesn't seem to be helpful

    It’s noteworthy that Paladins appear to be losing Righteous Defence. At the same time....War Banner, Mass Death Grip and Ursols Vortex are saying "hi".

    Also noteworthy is Roll (Monk), Charge(Warrior/Druid) and Death Grip (DK). All gap closing mechanisms. While homogeneity is an issue, there are many who would agree that a gap closing mechanic of some sort is still a necessity for a melee based class. Prot has access to SoL via talents, but that calls into question the viability of providing what should be basic, baseline tools as talents.

    Overall, the active mitigation system doesn’t look that interesting right now. EF/SS every 30s, then ShoR every time you have 3 HP with Boundless Conviction allowing the occasional WoG.

    Holy
    Holy...I'm going to leave. I don't heal often enough to feel competent enough to comment. It is somewhat disappointing to see the Shockadin build once again becoming submerged; it’s a style of play that many like even if it’s never been truly viable. The precedent Blizzard is setting in MoP with the druids fourth spec, however, does open up the possibility that new specialisations (as opposed to new classes or races) will be the selling point next time. If so, Shockadins may well make a return. However…right now it appears a Holydins DPS options are somewhat lacking which removes/lowers its viability at questing/levelling as that spec….at least, outside dungeons.

    Flavour abilities
    Ret get Exorcism all for itself. Prot gets Consecration. Holy gets Holy Wrath. Divine Intervention was removed. Turn Evil is gone. Sense Undead is gone.

    A lot of flavour or situational abilities are being removed or restricted. I can’t say I agree with this. These are abilities which differentiate the class, give it a different feel and also allow the class to showcase its skill and judgement by knowing when the situational moves are best. Simply because a move is situational or rarely used doesn’t mean it needs to be removed.

    The talents
    What’s to say? I don’t consider the current system perfect…but at the same time it does its job of ensuring a player feels like he is progressing his character fairly well. It doesn’t do much to individualise your character, true….but that’s also partially due to Blizzards own actions.

    However, the new system has its own issues….and the Paladin, by its nature, happens to trigger most, if not all, of its flaws. Making it easy to refresh also ensures the choice has no effective meaning and the fact that the system is a near clone of the existing Glyphs doesn’t help. That can only lead to Glyphs being made even less interesting as the star talents will have to be given the more interesting toys to make the effort look good.

    On a larger scale, talents and Glyphs also do pretty much what spec selection does. In the end, I’m still left with the feeling that character advancement has become little more than a mess and the whole thing needs to be tidied up in a big way.

    As for the talents themselves….a mixed bag. Some good, some bad and quite a few that should be baseline for various reasons. T5 especially looks like it’s doing its best to keep the existing problems in play.

    What I’d like to see:
    HoW getting its old animation back, alongside a return-to-sender animation
    Holy Power being fully developed and integrated
    A new melee combat resource to work alongside HP…call it Faith or whatever. Remove the CDs of many spells, remove SoB and the other mechanics that actually detract from the gameplay.
    Holy Prism working like C&Cs Prism tank, Execution Sentence working like Svalas Ritual of the Sword….possibly with a different graphic for Stay of Execution.
    GAnK remade into a Metamorphosis type spell, and the abilities baseline with a shared CD. I don’t think the current version works too well for various reasons. It also has thematic problems.
    The Shockadin returns – it’s a long-time favourite of many players.
    Baseline gap closing mechanic or tool to fill that same gap – something the class needs. And while it is getting something along those lines in MoP, the need to spend 2 talent points and a Glyph to attain even that semi-viable version of a mechanic that should be baseline is problematic in itself.
    The return of Auras – a Paladin stalwart, it’d be better to give up Blessings.
    A long term DPS buff that causes forbearance – the class already has a heal and a protection mechanic….a DPS tool (e.g Zealotry with a 20%-30% haste on a 10m timer) may be fun to use.

    What I’d consider worthy of serious discussion:

    Ret as a Sword ‘n’ Board DPS. It’s doable. It’s unique. It’s got a style of its own that no other class does. Is it desirable?
    Prot as 2H Tanking. Currently the preserve of DKs, Prot as the 2H tanking spec would allow a reversion to DW tanking for DKs, while also removing block as an issue from the spec. It would also open up the opportunity to build Paladin tanking more around magical shields and heals. Desirable?
    Tanks/holydins using DPS plate, or Tank/Ret using spellplate. Spellplate remains an issue as does gear in general. It can be a real pain to gear up a tank or off-spec in some situations and fewer bosses also means fewer slots for a reasonable loot table. Consolidating gear in some way could help in both cases. Should it happen?
    Ret and Prot merged…it would give Paladin melee a much more viable toolkit, with each covering for the others gaps. Stances, weapon choice or even threat modifiers could be used to separate out the two roles. But would players appreciate Prot getting a DPS stance that increased damage dealt and taken in lieu of a DPS spec, even if the DPS was identical?

    EJL

  2. #2
    the changes made to HP in MoP look fantastic. Making judgement give a HP baseline will probably remove the slight lag we see now, and exo will give yet another HP.

    Being able to store up to 5HP is fantastic, as it allows you to use something like exo on cooldown without worrying about losing the HP.

    Unfortunately I'd expect to see TV hitting a LOT lower than it currently does, which is a sad loss. <3 big numbers.

    All 3 of the 85 talents look exciting, especially the execution one.

    Yes, a lot of "flavour" abilites are gone, but it's because they were flak. MoP is streamlining a lot of classes to try and get people back into the game.

    I don't particularly consider any of the end points interesting or viable. Hitting things with a 1hander hurts them less than a 2hander. Tanking without a shield means you lose block. I'd prefer spellplate was completely removed than ret using spellplate, but it's not going to happen as we've been told 100's of times. Gearing up a holy spec as tank/ret is easy in 10man, nobody wants int plate.

    merging ret and prot sounds like what feral had for the last 6 years, and I think the change they just had it great.

  3. #3
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinner563 View Post
    the changes made to HP in MoP look fantastic. Making judgement give a HP baseline will probably remove the slight lag we see now, and exo will give yet another HP. Being able to store up to 5HP is fantastic, as it allows you to use something like exo on cooldown without worrying about losing the HP.
    Simpler gameplay style, more faceroll, a return to the complaints of the LK all the while speeding up HP generation in a manner that actually detracts from the class mechanics and does nothing to actually improve or fix the undetlying problems with the class mechanics.

    Will it work despite this? Maybe. BC has good points - its one those abilities that help with "tricks" but it also make the class far simpler to play.

    Yes, a lot of "flavour" abilites are gone, but it's because they were flak. MoP is streamlining a lot of classes to try and get people back into the game.
    Which doesn't require the removal of abilities that help define a class, nor does it require further shrinkage of an already anaemic toolkit.

    Hitting things with a 1hander hurts them less than a 2hander.
    Unless you get abilities that take "advantage" of that and beef up the damage.

    Tanking without a shield means you lose block.
    Yes.....which allows you to introduce moves such as shields and heals without worrying about block mechanics, and also creates further openings to exoiut via active mitigation.

    I'd prefer spellplate was completely removed than ret using spellplate, but it's not going to happen as we've been told 100's of times. Gearing up a holy spec as tank/ret is easy in 10man, nobody wants int plate.
    Hence the need for serious discussion.

    merging ret and prot sounds like what feral had for the last 6 years, and I think the change they just had it great.
    Yes...but again, simply a point worth serious discussion.

    EJL

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    And the AOE rotation is poor. There is no true AoE finisher. You'll want to keep ShoR up so you switch from a AoE builder to a single target finisher. Prot has no Divine Storm equivalent. Technically, you could equate ShoR with TV but that also points out the sheer lack of choice.
    There doesn't need to be a "true" AoE finisher.

    This all goes back to Blizzard's idea of having choices. You can either choose to increase Block Value for 6 seconds or to help heal through the damage with WoG. Which one will be more effective will depend on what mobs are hitting you.

    I personally find this way more compelling than "Inquisition at 3 Holy Power".

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by learntotank View Post
    There doesn't need to be a "true" AoE finisher.
    Debateable. There are several situations where having an AoE finisher would be desirable. Especially since it ties into that "choice" thing Blizzard on about.

    This all goes back to Blizzard's idea of having choices. You can either choose to increase Block Value for 6 seconds or to help heal through the damage with WoG. Which one will be more effective will depend on what mobs are hitting you.
    I know the theory.

    I'm concerned about the practise. Given the various restrictions of fights, and the need to balance WoG with ShoR so that one doesn't become the de facto choice (assuming that is indeed an issue) and various other factors such as the need to ensure balance bewteen all tanks, then I am questioning the usefulness of WOG and the actual viability of that choice. At the minute, I don't think that exists, at least not in a strong manner. Given the prevalence of physical damage in all fights - a necessity due to tank balance - then ShoR will likely be the de facto standard unless WoG is fairly strong. But in that case, ShoR won't be used. Meanwhile, if they are baalnced....then chcoie is again removed because it won't matter on most occasions which is used.

    EJL
    Last edited by Talen; 2012-03-19 at 06:46 AM.

  6. #6
    Dreadlord Silver-Fox's Avatar
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    Personally my hope and input in beta will be that I would like to see the Holy Paladin as well as other healers evolve in the same manner as the mistweaver monk.

    I'd like to see Holy Paladins, my most played class and specialization, play out more like a holy protector than just another healing mechanism. I feel like Paladins as healers were quickly drawn niche where it made sense for paladins to heal but invisioned them more as damage dealers or tanks before giving them a whole tree dedicated to healing to justify they could be healers.

    What I'm saying I'd like to see healing, more specifically Paladin healing spiced up. Be able to deal damage on the side, shield our allies by holy light and smite our foes all whilst radiating divine energy to heal our allies.

    I feel like the monk class is going to be more fun to heal as with what they proposed thus far as the 'old man' monk archetype. The specialization that allows you to fight and heal at the same time and your attacks are what distribute your healing from what I understand. I just hope that same variety if not that same concept of being more than just a healer but actually contributing to the battle more than say just targeting people and making their health bars go up.
    "Enjoy your power"

  7. #7
    They need to change Prot mastery for both Pallies and Warriors to make it more entertaining, they already stated that hitting CTC cap is impossible so the 2nd part of Warriors mastery is worthless so basically Pallies and Warriors will have exactly the same thing.

  8. #8
    if they make mastery increase ammount of damg a block blocks i will be less boring and mean block properly SCALES which is something it has stoped doing ever since they changed it to a %
    -> obtaining more gear in classic/etc made your blocks block more damg
    -> obtaining more gear in cata made your blocks block the same ammount of damg the whole expansion.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    What the fuck did you just say.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Viglante View Post
    if they make mastery increase ammount of damg a block blocks i will be less boring and mean block properly SCALES which is something it has stoped doing ever since they changed it to a %
    -> obtaining more gear in classic/etc made your blocks block more damg
    -> obtaining more gear in cata made your blocks block the same ammount of damg the whole expansion.
    What? It scales because they changed it to a percentage. Not with your gear, perhaps, but with the content.

    Was there block gear in Classic? 'Fraid I didn't play a tank at the time. I remember seeing it through Burning Crusade and Wrath, but the unfortunate thing is during that time the block gear was often less desirable than the alternative(s), used mostly just for a specific role in a couple fights (Anub'arak add tanking, for example. Perhaps even Algalon, if I remember right. 'Twas kind of amusing in heroics, too, I remember, but when you're overgeared for them you're overgeared for them, amirite.). It otherwise didn't increase your block amount by enough to really be wanted.


    More on topic, for prot:
    I'd be one on the side of Vengeance being removed because of its issues and redundancy.

    Am I in some sort of minority that actually enjoys our mastery? It kind of feels like that old stat Defense to me. I kind of liked trying to maintain the minimum with different equipment sets, and I like seeing what I can do with other stats while maintaining the cap on mastery. Though I acknowledge that causes issues and am definitely open to it being changed, but it wasn't in any way, for me at least, "boring".

    I've been somewhat satisfied so far with Avenger's Shield as a help for gap closing. Otherwise all three of our first choice of talents look neat.

    Your posts (OP) kind of give an implication that you regard anything that makes playing the class more forgiving bad. I must admit I'm curious why that is.
    Last edited by Elathi; 2012-03-20 at 03:51 AM.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    GAnK remade into a Metamorphosis type spell, and the abilities baseline with a shared CD. I don’t think the current version works too well for various reasons. It also has thematic problems.
    The Shockadin returns – it’s a long-time favourite of many players.
    I wish you worked for Blizzard

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by Elathi View Post
    What? It scales because they changed it to a percentage. Not with your gear, perhaps, but with the content.

    no, thats block scaleing with the size of the attack coming at you
    not block scaleing with the quality/power of your gear.

    eg go t11 ->
    dk and druid absorb block equivalents will be overpowered as their ammount "blocked" has gone up gue to gear upgrades
    paladin/warior dodge/parry a bit mroe but block stil prevents the same ammount damg it always did.

    our block now scales with the size of the swing against us
    isntead of beter gear = blocking more, which it did in classic/tbc

    making it scale with the content instead of the player makes us gain less in power compared to dk/druids who gain all the voidane and hp we do but also their damg reductions go up ours stay flat at a% of the swing.

    a full heroic dragonsoul paladin/warior will stil only block the same ammount of damg per attack that a freshly dinged 85 in 346 blues will.
    a fully heroic dk/druid creates much larger self absorb as gear goes.

    i would much much ratherh ave my block go up with gear. as all it did this expansion was force blizzard to make several mechanics "unblockable" otherwise they would have been to easy for pally/warior, imagine if you could "block" focused assult on hagra -> we can't but dk/druid can stil bubble to absorb it
    Last edited by Viglante; 2012-03-20 at 11:06 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Obelodalix View Post
    What the fuck did you just say.

  12. #12
    That's not disagreeing with me, Viglante. It's repeating and elaborating on what I said.

    'Spose what we do disagree on is whether blocks should scale on the size of the hit or with your gear. My bias comes from the fact that even when there was gear in the game that increased block value, our block value still barely scaled because that gear was often not something we wanted to normally use. Though I'd agree it'd be nice to have a more viable way for it to scale with gear.

    Yes, a freshly dinged 85 will block for the same amount a seasoned raider does, and that's kind of amusing, but said tanks aren't just block. They revolve around other stats, too. The fresh 85 is still, of course, much weaker.
    Last edited by Elathi; 2012-03-20 at 07:33 PM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Elathi View Post
    Your posts (OP) kind of give an implication that you regard anything that makes playing the class more forgiving bad. I must admit I'm curious why that is.
    There's forgiving...and then there is going out of the way to make the class very simple to play. It gets worse when the manner of simplification interferes with gameplay.

    I didn't start this thread to go into details as I've spelled them out - mostly - in the past. But, putting it simply, a player needs to be allowed to make mistakes and requiring 3 HP to allow DPS moves and having BC takes out a lot of the judgement and skill from the class. Relying on CDs instead of an energy bar does the same. I'm all for making the class fun to play, and streamlined....but there is a point, I feel, at which such actions end up detracting it from the class. Simple to learn, simple to master is not a mnatra that is often followed.

    EJL

  14. #14
    The Patient Phantoms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talen View Post
    There's forgiving...and then there is going out of the way to make the class very simple to play. It gets worse when the manner of simplification interferes with gameplay.

    I didn't start this thread to go into details as I've spelled them out - mostly - in the past. But, putting it simply, a player needs to be allowed to make mistakes and requiring 3 HP to allow DPS moves and having BC takes out a lot of the judgement and skill from the class. Relying on CDs instead of an energy bar does the same. I'm all for making the class fun to play, and streamlined....but there is a point, I feel, at which such actions end up detracting it from the class. Simple to learn, simple to master is not a mnatra that is often followed.

    EJL
    You say that a player needs to be allowed to make mistakes (and I understand your reasoning given the context of 3HP finishers)

    But then you also say in your final paragraph under your Retribution/melee section that something like Boundless Conviction "creates much more room for mistakes"

    ...

    I get it. Requiring 3HP for finishers means you cant be like a Rogue/Feral Druid. We're all a little bummed, but it just doesn't feel right to even think about hitting TV at less than 3HP...so...Blizzard removed the hassle for people who might not understand things as well, and maybe even make it easier on those who know what they're doing.

    Boundless Conviction is going to be one of the most interesting things for Paladins going into this expansion. When that 4.0 patch drops, things are seriously getting shaken up.

  15. #15
    Not sure how i feel about prot having a 4.5 second CS and HotR. Seems like things are going to feel reaaally slow. The exception being faster HP generation with judgement now granting HP, but HP generation as prot has never been an issue for me. Since Avengers shield giving HP when it procs. Still not a fan of my CS/HotR being slower.

    Then there is our mastery, which is quite frankly already showing problems in current content. Noticing a lot on heroic bosses, DKs and Druids are having a far easier time than us paladins, simply because their masteries aren't as limited as ours, being block is only physical. Looks like it won't change going into the new content either.

    Ret will be fairly interesting though. I just hope our AoE being split between 3 abilities (Seal of right, HotR and Divine Storm) doesn't mean we end up with weak AoE damage again, needing to use that many abilities to accomplish what other classes normally do with 1, should result in better damage.
    We are warriors, born from the light
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  16. #16
    Bloodsail Admiral Hextor's Avatar
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    They need to figure out block and Prot mastery/survivability system.
    I'd say Ret is ok atm.
    As a minor preference, I'd like to see a viable plate caster dps aka the shockadin (don't make Exo ret only!).

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Phantoms View Post
    But then you also say in your final paragraph under your Retribution/melee section that something like Boundless Conviction "creates much more room for mistakes"
    And expand upon that in the next few words to indicate the improved room for forgiveness. Its next to impossible to mistime a finisher....you literally can't use it too early and BC compensates for using it too late.

    Requiring 3HP for finishers means you cant be like a Rogue/Feral Druid. We're all a little bummed, but it just doesn't feel right to even think about hitting TV at less than 3HP...so...Blizzard removed the hassle for people who might not understand things as well, and maybe even make it easier on those who know what they're doing.
    Trouble is....thats because TV has lousy scaling. HP now works fairly much like a CD mechanic. Yes, there are some differences. I'm speaking in generalities here. Yes...BC is a good addition, but it has its drawbacks. The simplification of the rotation....a simplifiation the class doesn't actually need...is one of those drawbacks. Contibuting to making HP more irrelvant than it is is another.

    EJL

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Xucuroz View Post
    Noticing a lot on heroic bosses, DKs and Druids are having a far easier time than us paladins, simply because their masteries aren't as limited as ours, being block is only physical.
    Silly that it isn't specified on the tooltips, but I'm fairly sure Blood Shield and Savage Defense only absorb physical damage, too.

  19. #19
    For Retribution moving towards many HP generators is definetly great. It won't affect PVE so much, but for PvP it's a great deal since from time to time i'm feeling insanely HP starved, especially if your CS is getting dodged or parried - sometimes it's a difference between putting out a solid preassure or hitting like a wet noodle. But i'll miss those 3-4 TV in a row procs too.

  20. #20
    Mechagnome Boogieknight's Avatar
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    I'm beginning to wonder if we suffered the horrific Holy Power system to feel out any and all flaws of the Chi system for Monks. They won't release monks with a cruddy combo point system, so we had to be the alpha and suffer an entire expansion because of it. I could be wrong, but if the system is fairly similar and not a piece of garbage I'm gonna be pissed.
    Anyone else think Jaime Lannister only has the Kingslayer title because he was just too lazy to kill the king on heroic mode?

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