[Worgen] Add Alpha Female Worgen Model Features as Options!!!

[Seyna Starstrider]

Ack! I hate the Lion King 2: Simba's Pride with a passion! The way it just pisses all over the first movie and its characters and -- Ooo seeing anything related to it makes my blood boil!

... Anyway, back on topic... >_>

As I said, the goal for my edit is -as very minimal dimorphism as possible-. I do not believe that something should have different eyes, nor do I believe that females should have lively eyes while the males get soulless eyes simply because they are female. I also do not believe they should have smaller teeth or claws because they are female. Wolves hunt in a pack. Why would the females have smaller teeth and claws if everyone in the pack is supposed to contribute?

In the case of the female worgen, I think minimal dimorphism would have been the way to go. Sure, make them sleeker, give them a more feminine body, but that is it. She shouldn't need make-up. She shouldn't need sultry human eyes with heavy eyelashes. She shouldn't need huge, gravity-defying breasts. If someone cannot tell that a character is female simply because it lacks those things, that says something about the -person looking at it-, not the designer.

[Deleted]

The problem i find withe the edit at the other page is that people focus too much in remble her as the male, when it isnt something necesary, if i want male faces, i make a male worgen What the alpha had (comparing both Alpha female and Beta male) is that, while still quite visually different to her male counterpart, she resembled the "race's female" (just as it happens with the draenei for example). But when you campare both, male an female Live models, you clearly see them as different races, the female is very "out of place" visually, just because her head doesnt resemble a wolf/worg at all.

that's why i preffer that developers took Alpha model as "base" model and improve from there the model.

[GeordieMagpie]

I guess the alpha female worgen is better, but in all honesty, the first reason I wanted to play alpha male worgen, is because they were cute.

That's not something you want with the worgen, they look alot more badass in the finalized version.

Personally, I'd enjoy alpha female back and more customizations for the male

Also 1 thing, you picked like..the worst female worg ever..you could've atleast tried to make her look a bit good for a fair comparison. You can make her better :P

[Flufflemonster]

I don't care for the worgen having tails. Lorewise, the worgen have no tails, which I'm cool with that. However, when they've putten so much into goblins as a race, I'm seriously disappointed that they haven't shown the same detail and work to the Alliance counterpart.

Completely agree. I don't really care for tails either. Worgen originally had no tails in the lore, why put them in now?

I don't want my worgen to look like a chihuahua.
I don't want my worgen to look like a hyena either.
I don't want my worgen to look like anything within the canidae family tree, other than resembling werewolves and wolves, which they are based upon.

I too don't want my Fluffy looking like a demented, "come hitha to the bedrewm" chihuahua. I mean, she's lovesick, but she's not that crazt.
About the Hyena, I have seen Worgen that look more like hyenas than wolves. You know that "How are these the same species?" picture that showed the male and female's skull, then made a suggest female ontop of the male's skull? The female ontop of the male's skull looked very much like Shenzi from The Lion King. I've seen other pictures look like that too, when they attempted to fill out the rest of the snarl in the Beta female.
And for the wolves...
Nuff said.

Hunched up backs, spiked up manes, glowing eyes, vicious face, long claws.. Yes, I get worgen are feral. I get worgen are vicious. I like vicious. But they are more than just a bunch of feral, blood thirsty werebeasts. They are ex-Gilneans. And not everyone will want to play vicious, just like not every player want to play a soft-n-squishy face. For example, the Orc female has a variety of vicious, to pretty, to old. So does the Troll female.

And you're absolutely right. If all of the choices we had were glazed eyes, wrinkled faces, snarly snaggletoothed bitches I'd refuse to play a worgen. I know they're fierce and vicious, but they're still Gilneans. I don't want to play a soul-less eyed bloodthirsty monster. I like the alpha female worgen's eyes because they have personality. Alpha female eyes have sultry, calm, alert, and feral. Male eyes have glazed, glazed, glazed, glazed. No variety. Of course, I know there are people who want glazed eyed, wrinkled face, snarly, snaggletoothy bitches, but some don't. We should have had the option for glazed eyes on the alpha female and a good snarl on her too, and wrinkled faces for more personality. So, for the people who like to take

Lemme ask, how many people like this worgie? (left one.)

I adore him. But people were like NOOOO WE WANT SCARY BLOODTHIRSTY SNAGGLETOOTHY MONSTER! So we got the one we have now.
Seriously, why couldn't we have, for the people who wanted a calmer approach, the alpha male worgen, because of their calm, yet feral eyes. And for those who want fierce, they can go with the current Worgen.
Or, they could just add the alpha male worgen's eyes, as options, and they could have kept the male worgen's closed mouth as an option for the mouth as well. I want the alpha female worgen as an option, but I am against getting rid of their eyes.

I also don't want to play as a bedroom eyed femme that's snarling on the side. That's like saying "love me all night long" while wearing a chastity belt. I mean, jesus!

"Come hitha to the bedrewm, dahling!"

As I said, the goal for my edit is -as very minimal dimorphism as possible-. I do not believe that something should have different eyes, nor do I believe that females should have lively eyes while the males get soulless eyes simply because they are female. I also do not believe they should have smaller teeth or claws because they are female. Wolves hunt in a pack. Why would the females have smaller teeth and claws if everyone in the pack is supposed to contribute?

In the case of the female worgen, I think minimal dimorphism would have been the way to go. Sure, make them sleeker, give them a more feminine body, but that is it. She shouldn't need make-up. She shouldn't need sultry human eyes with heavy eyelashes. She shouldn't need huge, gravity-defying breasts. If someone cannot tell that a character is female simply because it lacks those things, that says something about the -person looking at it-, not the designer.

Sorry if it seems I striked you down a bit. I understand you want as little dimorphism as possible. And yes, I whole-heartedly agree that the female worgen don't need to wear makeup (but the alphas do have a little bit on, not too much, it actually fits with the glow in their eyes) and she shouldn't have huge, bulbous human eyes and huge breasts to make her look feminine, but if all the choices that female worgen has were glazed eyed, huge snaggletoothed snarls, some people wouldn't like them because, perhaps, maybe they want to have their worgen look like they have more personality than a monstrous beast. The alpha eyes did that.

Some people don't want monsters from hell, just like Areto said, so at least, female worgen need to keep their alpha eyes and their closed mouth (but sharper, larger teeth) for the calmer folk who actually want it, (like I do) and people who want feral monsters could receive something like the male worgen's glazed, glowy eyes, but just a bit bigger to make her look more feminine, and snaggletoothy snarls. I'm for the male worgen also getting the alpha male worgen's eyes as an option, as well as the closed mouthed snarl the actual beta model used to have before Blizz got rid of it. Like for perhaps, Mages, who aren't really OMFGKILLKILLSLASHYOUTOPIECES type. I'd also appreciate if we get some more wrinkles on the muzzles of the females as options to make her a bit more scary.

[GeordieMagpie]

can you guys wait a bit, I think you have more polygons in those nails than humans have in their whole body.

[Flufflemonster]

can you guys wait a bit, I think you have more polygons in those nails than humans have in their whole body.

We understand other races need their upgrades first. We understand that there are still blocky models from Vanilla and TBC (cat models... 3 toes... cheetah... ugh.) But we don't want to be forgotten or not of any priority to Blizzard. I specifically said that in my OP. We just want to at least be in Blizzard's list, and we're stating what we want.

[GeordieMagpie]

Both Alpha and normal Cata models of the male worgen is amazing, you should be able to choose imo. But it'd be very ..different..

[Flufflemonster]

Both Alpha and normal Cata models of the male worgen is amazing, you should be able to choose imo. But it'd be very ..different..

Yes! I think alpha eyes on beta worgen, as well as the closed mouth snarl the beta used to have, would be a good combination, if we had the options to do so! But I LOVE the alpha worgie... they're so cuddly... until they rip your face off.

[GeordieMagpie]

We understand other races need their upgrades first. We understand that there are still blocky models from Vanilla and TBC (cat models... 3 toes... cheetah... ugh.) But we don't want to be forgotten or not of any priority to Blizzard. I specifically said that in my OP. We just want to at least be in Blizzard's list, and we're stating what we want.

Hopefully, also..Blizzard's list is the most unorganized list of all time

[Flufflemonster]

Hopefully, also..Blizzard's list is the most unorganized list of all time

I'd like to ask you and this goes to everyone as well, would you rather wait to have everything, even updated models, to be released finally as the expansion goes live, or would you rather have the expansion go as planned, and have Blizz release the models and all the updated stuff whenever they're done with them?

Well... there'd be less patches, but... IT'D BE SHOWERING IMPROVEMENTS!!

[Seyna Starstrider]

I actually love the alpha's eyes, as they resemble real life wolves, and there were so many different variations of the eyes with the alpha model. I'm all about options. If males have soulless glowing eyes, the females should have them too. If the females have wolf eyes, the males should have the option for wolf eyes too. I can see Gilnean women wearing make-up, but again, I should have the option to have a female worgen without make-up.

I actually like the new male worgen model more than the old. It resembles the NPC model, it looks less lion-ish, and it fits the overall theme of "feral nightmare creature". However, I wouldn't object to the alpha male model being an option alongside the alpha females. Despite having "soulless" eyes, the male worgen have several distinct faces. One is calmer than the other, another is sleeker and cunning. I'm not saying the males are perfect. They do need more customization options, but the variety is there. Both male and female night elves have glowing "soulless" eyes, but their faces were distinct enough to give them a variety of personalities and attitudes. Same for the blood elves.

Eyes should not be different because of gender. If a race has to be stuck with one type of eye and one type of eye only, they both should have wolf eyes, or they both should have soulless glowing eyes. If the males have huge, snaggleteeth, the females should too. I doubt a werewolf curse would discriminate against gender.

[Dacia Ultan]

You mean Lupine? :P Beta female worgen are canine

I meant in terms of any relation to the dog family at all.

The beta/live model's eyes...well, aren't. As I'm sure I've said before: Jessica Rabbit.

And that image was done by Pokketmowse, AKA Merrel of Moon Guard. Not sure if she still plays. (And I remember saying "if only" in response to her posting that on the forums back in the day.)

[Scunosi]

Hey this thread's still around. Guess it'll give me something to do, what with all my end of semester free time!

That's probably one of my favorite if not favorite female fan concepts by the way. Still super-feminine compared to the male, still very wolfish, and plenty of opportunity for ferocity or tameness in between.

I'm going to be kind of narcissistic here and copy/paste from a thread I made that...no one read... So sorry for the long read, but it was just something I had been thinking about in regards to female Worgen and Worgen in general.

"So, there was a new Blizz post about a week ago I think where they stated they were pretty much done with the Pandaren, specifically stating, once again, that they didn't want to repeat the "Worgen female fiasco." This makes at least the second time they've labelled it as such. But I'm curious as to what they're going to do with it?
We finally got confirmation not so long ago (in Blizz terms anyway) that player character model revamps were coming, but that they were still very much a work in progress and we likely won't be seeing them 'til mid-MoP at least. I believe it was also stated that they were doing them in no particular order, saying that the Dwarves were the most done merely because they had the least amount of changes to be made and not because they were in the most need of improvement.
Some players have speculated (or it's likely just wishful thinking) that Blizz will include the Worgen, or more specifically the female Worgen, in their player revamp. Blizzard has themselves stated multiple times now that they're not happy with how they came out, or at the very least that they recognize the (un)popular opinion of them. However...

Having said all that, for Blizzard to go back and change them now would seemingly be counter to the new stance they've taken with the Pandaren, that is, "We made it, we're happy with it, it's not changing." They worded it quite well, that they'll never be able to please everyone with their designs, and people like the current design (talking about the Pandaren here) and that changing it now would risk not only continuing to disappoint some people, but also losing the fans they already had.
Applying this to the female Worgen, while they're popularly derided, they do have their fans, or just those that don't particularly care and can work with what they've got. So even though Blizzard has come out and said they're not that great of a design, to change them now would be just like the Pandaren issue, where they'd risk losing the current fans.

Of course, they could end up with a design that's so much better that the net-fan amount could only increase, but that would mean sticking with a design and ignoring any community input.

This also puts an interesting light on the male Worgen. Lest we forget they got a makeover during Cata's beta as well, yet you don't hear many cries for a return to their alpha forms. This puts Blizzard in an even more interesting position; if they did include the female Worgen in their makeover session, would they include the males as well? Would people complain if they didn't? Would not including them be the purest form of admission that they messed up with the female Worgen?

So anyways, I just find this all sort of interesting, what with all the controversy in the past about not only the female Worgen models but also more recently the female Pandaren models. One has to wonder why the Goblins didn't go through this whole thing, though perhaps that's due to the fact that they'd actually existed and been visible since WoW's inception, meaning players, like them or not, had at least grown to recognize and accept that they had a certain "look."

Given all that, I'm just wondering what people think about this "issue." Would it be bad form for Blizzard to go back and change the models now? Would it make them look too "cavey?" To be fair they're in the process of changing almost 80% of the models right now, but of course those models are much, much older, whereas the Worgen at the very least have nice textures. If Blizzard included them in the revamp, would it be unfair to only do the females, which are the only gender they've said they're unhappy with, or should they do both? If they went that route, do you think they'd simply revert to the alpha models and improve on them, or start from scratch?"


I guess I'm too wordy for your average forum-goer, but hopefully it gives you something to talk/think about at least. As much as I'd love to see the female Worgen redone (to my own preferences, of course :P) I' kind of torn as to whether or not Blizz will actually go through with it at this point.

[Scunosi]

It feels like Blizzard was slacking a little while making worgens. They could have made them so much better. You can barely see that they have hair, or at least the hair is bad made. And the way they walk and jump somehow seems to be broken as well. It would be really awesome if they fixed all the races a little, maybe focused a little more on the worgen race than on the others though. It seems to be kind of unfair that the new panda race looks so alive if you compare with the other races. If you try the panda emotes etc for yourself you will understand what I mean.

Well to be fair they're like that in comparison to all the races (maybe barring Goblin) just due to technical limitations. Some of the Vanilla models are almost 10 years old (since some were ripped right out of WC3 and just modded), while the Pandaren are using Blizz's newest tech. So since almost everybody's in line for a revamp now hopefully that discrepancy will be taken care of.
At least, I would assume they'd get new/improved animations? I'm hoping for fancy new "Pandaren" skeletons, not just new skins on the same old busted ones. A few of the old ones are okay for the most part but they all have their quirks that should really be fixed.

[Chadina]

I still can't get over how excited I am to see the new models when they come out. I just hope that they take responsibility for their mistake and change the model, if not just fix the bugs and add the alpha face and head as an option. Also fix female trolls, I regret not making a male troll when I made my shaman for the simple fact that the males feel like a troll. The females feel more like a human in a costume. :P

[Scunosi]

If they did simply add the old Alpha as an option though, no actual remodeling to speak of, where does that put the players currently using female Worgen? You think they'd give them free, optional character re-customizations so that they could go back and choose between the two? To me that seems like it'd be the "right" thing to do, but for companies, "right" isn't always "best."
Plus then you'd likely hear complaints from non-Worgen wanting free makeovers, and it's not like they've ever offered them before...

[Dacia Ultan]

By rights, with the upcoming model revamp, they ought to give everyone a single free recustomization per affected character.

---------- Post added 2012-04-23 at 05:16 PM ----------

ETA: I found this linked at Tumblr. Liking the shape of her head there.

[Scunosi]

By rights, with the upcoming model revamp, they ought to give everyone a single free recustomization per affected character.

---------- Post added 2012-04-23 at 05:16 PM ----------

ETA: I found this linked at Tumblr. Liking the shape of her head there.

You know I was just thinking that. I mean, it wouldn't really matter too much if they gave female Worgen (all Worgen?) a free makeover since they'll almost have to give one to all the Vanilla races that get redone (still not sure if they're including BC races in that or not). I mean, for all we know they could be totally tossing some of the current customization options, and I'd rather pick a new one than be assigned whatever the new corresponding code is.

And that linked image is pretty good, too. I thought I'd seen all the female Worgen stuff at this point. :P
It's actually a kind of nice halfway between the current and the Alpha. It's got the ears of the current, but with a mouth that's more like the Alpha, while the muzzle as a whole looks much more like the current male's, long and lean. I'm assuming it's actually not a "concept" so much as a stylized derivation of the current model, so it's nice to see that you can actually get something out of it given enough imagination. Of course, not everyone has access to a skilled artist's picture of how their character "should" look.


Pretty off-topic, but related to the above, is there some sort of RP-code regarding the linking/sourcing of outside material for in-game things? Like if you linked some image in whatever RP addon people use instead of a description, or at least kept the link on-hand for people asking. On the one hand I think it'd be really cool to have custom art of your character, but on the other to rely on that instead of playing it out seems a little anti-rp.

[Dacia Ultan]

And that linked image is pretty good, too. I thought I'd seen all the female Worgen stuff at this point. :P
It's actually a kind of nice halfway between the current and the Alpha. It's got the ears of the current, but with a mouth that's more like the Alpha, while the muzzle as a whole looks much more like the current male's, long and lean. I'm assuming it's actually not a "concept" so much as a stylized derivation of the current model, so it's nice to see that you can actually get something out of it given enough imagination. Of course, not everyone has access to a skilled artist's picture of how their character "should" look.

I actually had a little dialogue with the artist. She rather likes the model for the most part; that image was mainly a "de-derpification."

Pretty off-topic, but related to the above, is there some sort of RP-code regarding the linking/sourcing of outside material for in-game things? Like if you linked some image in whatever RP addon people use instead of a description, or at least kept the link on-hand for people asking. On the one hand I think it'd be really cool to have custom art of your character, but on the other to rely on that instead of playing it out seems a little anti-rp.

As long as you're authorized to use it, and as long as it's not something godawful-Sue-tastic, I don't think there's a stigma.

[Scunosi]

I actually had a little dialogue with the artist. She rather likes the model for the most part; that image was mainly a "de-derpification."

Yeah, it's actually really close to the live model, with just a few relatively minor changes. In fact, the mouth wouldn't even be a change if they only snarled in combat and had a real "passive" pose. The eyes aren't even that shrunk and that's a common complaint. I guess the main difference would be...I don't know, eyelids?