PvP Healing, need some help.

[PsyBomb]

Hello all! I'm a member of a small PvP guild (read: wish we were bigger but recruitment sucks for PvP on our realm), mostly focused on 2s and 3s plus small-team Random BG queues. My primary PvP character is Ferengi, a Goblin Holy priest. Here come the questions:

1) I'd always heard that Discipline is supposed to be better and that was my original spec, but I'm finding myself both more effective and MUCH harder to kill overall as Holy. Is anyone else having this experience?

2) I could use some up-to-date info on playing PvP with these specs. I'm decent as-is (if you look me up on Aerie Peak US my rating isn't that good, but I do a lot of hopping around teams to help others cap), but I always want to do better and info is HARD to find (especially on the Holy side of things).

3) If anyone out there is Holy, what Chakra do you normally PvP in? I do mostly Serenity, swapping to Sanctuary in larger group situations (read: bigger node fights in AV/AB/IoC) and Chastise if I get caught alone (and NOBODY ever expects HW:C's incap). However, from what little I'm hearing, most just stay in Sanctuary.

Thanks in advance for any info.

[Rec]

1. Yes, but I would strongly suggest against running holy in PvP unless you know what you're doing, it's very unforgiving.

2. There are no holy guides for PvP whatsoever, sorry. That said, if you have specific questions, I can give you answers from a 2200+ arena/RBG perspective.

3. You should only use Serenity. Even in huge nodes, you're better off renew spamming your team like mad instead of dropping a Sanctuary and forcing your team into a circle for marginally more heals (not to mention it's a huge sign on the ground saying "look at me, I'm a holy priest!"). Chastise is risky, but very strong. It's especially nice if you want to CC their healer and load up a sweet MC (except for those dirty rShams...). Avoid using Chastise when someone's on you, because there is no way you're going to cast another Flash Heal to get Serenity back up.

Feel free to ask more questions if you have any, I support any priests crazy enough to go for holy. Also, what ratings are you playing at?

Edit: Chastise is ridiculous in 2s btw, thought I'd include that.

[Amenostosis]

Well i think you need to take some issues in your mind first,

1) How comfi do i feel playing Disc or Holy, You mention your harder to kill in pvp so thats good prolly your not healing for the 100% and you are covering a 60%(self heal) and 40% partner/group heal) this make a distraction to the enemy focusing their 100% attacks on you and you partner can have a real damage on your enemies. Many people dont mention this but there are second roles on the bg or Arenas (As i do when im playing as a lock//rogue partner, my main task is not to deal damage is to cc and make any shields or buffs to disapear with the Felhunter)

2)Choosing btw Sanctuary and Serenity maybe realy difficult, but there are some tips that could help you there
-Your mana pool (You get oom real fast or not)
-Crit Chance (Criticals can change the end game to a winning game)
-Haste rating (How fast you can spam /heal/ so your mana pool can last longer)

Now remember that the CD in Serenity is lower so you can cast it more often, your critical chance are higher due the fact is not an AoE HoT, Sanctuary maybe a real powerfull HoT but you need to combo with CoH and PoH and lightwell so you will heal many on your RBG.

IF you want to have a better rating you may need to be a lil bit selfish and not helping others to cap get your 2v2, 3v3, 5v5 MAIN team and help in the others i recomend to choose one btw all of these.

Hope this is usefull to you and others

-This is a PERSONAL opinion that have worked for me.
-Find the most comfortable spec for you.
-The most importat is to have fun. (yea.....if your winning)

[PsyBomb]

Thanks for the help. I don't care all THAT much about rating, I just like getting better at what I do. I'm normally playing at around 1700-ish, though I had one good run up to about 1900 with a rogue who almost didn't need my help. Can't get RBGs going due to guild size and scheduling, but I do a LOT of Randoms and usually have top heals by 100k or better. I actually like both Holy and Discipline (levelled as AA/A), but Holy just clicked better.

My Arena playstyle atm is based in Serenity. Keep Renews rolling, Dispell aggressively, and cast Holy Word and CoH pretty much on cooldown. Lightwell goes up somewhere big and obvious right at the beginning, the idea being to force an enemy to take time to kill it (and if they don't it's a TON of free heals). PoM helps a lot as well. I mana burn enemy healers any time I get the chance and save my Shields for escapes due to WoB and the 4-set bonus. Scream is usually being cast on-cooldown to get assorted junk off of me, though I usually try to catch enemy support players in the blast.
I drop Chakra in an emergency if I need the Incap, though I usually follow it with a Flash Heal to myself once I get a second free. Surge of Light procs are miracle-workers on this front, I usually use a proc to get a Chastise off when there's no danger to my re-entry into Serenity.

Rec: If they didn't notice the Chakra aura around me, they won't notice the Sanctuary In any case, I usually use Sanctuary casts to trick mediocre players into fighting on the flags by casting it centered ON said flags.

Again, many thanks for all the help. I might be a lunatic and not the best arena guy, but Holy actually is fun for me to PvP with. Enough to get nearly Cataclysmic'd out.

[Deleted]

I'd say disc is better than holy for "good players vs good players", which is players that interupt, silenence/stunchain on you. Sure Holy might survive due to Guardian Spirit.
Let's take a look at the PRO's vs CON'S

PRO HOLY VS DISC
+More raw healing
+Cooldowns (Guardian Spirit)
+Instant Chakraheal/Chastice/Sanctuary
+Speedshield

PRO's DISC vs HOLY
+MUCH better cooldowns, PS, PW:B, PI, IF
+Better Shields
+Lower cd on shield when healed
+Penance, usually get at least 2 ticks before kicked + easy to fake cast with

plus disc does more damage when switching to damage due to 15% int buff (you will want to MS/MB to not get locked out)

[Deleted]

Strength of Soul is a big plus for me as disc - having a 5 second silence immunity available has saved me so many times.

Incidentally the healing stats in the random BG score screen don't track absorbs so disc will usually seem lower than they actually are there.

[Rec]

Rec: If they didn't notice the Chakra aura around me, they won't notice the Sanctuary

lol, fair enough.

I'd say disc is better than holy for "good players vs good players", which is players that interupt, silenence/stunchain on you. Sure Holy might survive due to Guardian Spirit.
Let's take a look at the PRO's vs CON'S

PRO HOLY VS DISC
+More raw healing
+Cooldowns (Guardian Spirit)
+Instant Chakraheal/Chastice/Sanctuary
+Speedshield

PRO's DISC vs HOLY
+MUCH better cooldowns, PS, PW:B, PI, IF
+Better Shields
+Lower cd on shield when healed
+Penance, usually get at least 2 ticks before kicked + easy to fake cast with

plus disc does more damage when switching to damage due to 15% int buff (you will want to MS/MB to not get locked out)

I'm not so sure disc is better when it's good vs good players. The reason being, holy almost never has to cast to stay alive. You have more and stronger instants, shield excluded. Also, the speed bubbles are a huge deal against good players. You can use them to pillar kite for that LoS heal like a champ, and fear bombs are almost too fast to avoid. Don't forget you can use Lightwell whenever it's in range, whether you're mid cast or CC'd.

The damage loss is a big one. I don't have enough fingers to count how many losses I've had just because I didn't have that finishing power as I did as disc.

[Deleted]

Don't kid yourself disc is better in most cases.

Holy healing on the scoreboard is inflated by divine hymn and the fact that shields don't show, also you're gonna die if you don't have assistance from another healer and you have 2 guys on you, your "instant" casts are limited to pom/shield/renew/chakra in comparison disc has pom/shield/renew and it takes 20% less dmg instead of getting 30% more healing. As holy if you get interrupted you're fucked, because you drop like a rock.

Lightwell is nice, but you get grounded using it. What happens if people just back off, and drag your team away from the lightwell?

Don't get me wrong though, holy can be good, but the enemies have to let it happen.

[Deleted]

PRO HOLY VS DISC
+More raw healing
+Cooldowns (Guardian Spirit)
+Instant Chakraheal/Chastice/Sanctuary
+Speedshield

PRO's DISC vs HOLY
+MUCH better cooldowns, PS, PW:B, PI, IF
+Better Shields
+Lower cd on shield when healed
+Penance, usually get at least 2 ticks before kicked + easy to fake cast with

Those are the points. Till I had to keep Shadow as PvE offspec (guild request) I pvped as Holy (my PvE healing spec): your healing could be much higher than a Disc priest, but that's only true in battlegrounds and if you never find yourself alone... Otherwise, you got easily raped. If you are a fair skilled pvper and properly geared, as Disc you're almost immortal.y

[Rec]

Don't kid yourself disc is better in most cases.

Holy healing on the scoreboard is inflated by divine hymn and the fact that shields don't show, also you're gonna die if you don't have assistance from another healer and you have 2 guys on you, your "instant" casts are limited to pom/shield/renew/chakra in comparison disc has pom/shield/renew and it takes 20% less dmg instead of getting 30% more healing. As holy if you get interrupted you're fucked, because you drop like a rock.

Lightwell is nice, but you get grounded using it. What happens if people just back off, and drag your team away from the lightwell?

Don't get me wrong though, holy can be good, but the enemies have to let it happen.

Disc is better in most cases, with the exception of rBGs.

When I played holy last season, Divine Hymn wasn't nearly as good as it is now, and it was pretty much expected that I would top heals for our team. This was also at a time when balanced or melee heavy teams were dominant, and now rBGs are filled with DoT classes, which is where holy shines.
http://i.imgur.com/TLnil.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/czNJO.jpg
I don't have many screenshots saved up, but you get the idea.

I never had problems getting interrupted because I virtually never had to cast while I was tanking. Holy has better instant casts than disc. It's so good I use my shield offensively to speed boost myself or teammates - we never have Weakened Soul ruining the day. Basically what I'm saying is, holy's instant casts are so bloody good, you don't even need shields defensively. Disc may have great absorbs (my friend calls them a "pause button" lol), but holy rarely needs them.

The biggest problem with holy is Lightwell, it requires really good placement and teammates you can rely on to click it when they need to.

[PsyBomb]

Lightwell is an odd case, because when I cast it a decent enemy will take a moment to kill it. bad opponents are usually incapable of dragging either myself or my team away from it. In either case, it comes out as a net gain for my crew as their people taking the time to kill it eases the pressure on me for that moment (which can make all the difference), often at the beginning of a fight I will use it to bait enemies into vulnerable positions for my stealthers to take out (ran with Druid and Rogue for a bit, results were hilarious)

[Deleted]

I'm not so sure disc is better when it's good vs good players. The reason being, holy almost never has to cast to stay alive. You have more and stronger instants, shield excluded. Also, the speed bubbles are a huge deal against good players. You can use them to pillar kite for that LoS heal like a champ, and fear bombs are almost too fast to avoid. Don't forget you can use Lightwell whenever it's in range, whether you're mid cast or CC'd.

The damage loss is a big one. I don't have enough fingers to count how many losses I've had just because I didn't have that finishing power as I did as disc.

Well, I don't see this happening in any controlled PvP-environment. As a disc I will have to cast, alot in order to stay alive vs skilled opponents. Sure you have more instants, but it's actually not that much more. Stronger PoM, CoH and Serenity won't hold you for very long. As disc you have 20% damage reduction up at all times, while 30% extra healing doesn't matter when you are stuck in a stun/silence kill.

I won't even go to far into Lightwell, sure it's really really good (OP?) if people doesn't kill it. But skilled people will, and you will have traded globals at the most ;-), maybe got the opponent a bit out of position.

Pretty much every DPS will have a slow on you thus rendering the 60% speedshield useless when using shield freedom.

I won't argue that holy is very, very much a good, competetive PvP-specc, but I would still say that for arena I would choose disc 100% of the time. In BGs/RBGs I wouldn't mind going for holy.

EDIT: Removed first Quote, wasn't really useful, rather misleading :-)

[PsyBomb]

Speedshield is still good while you have a snare up on you due to the PvP set 4-piece, which suppresses movement-impairing effects for a few seconds when you cast PW:S on yourself.

[Deleted]

Speedshield is still good while you have a snare up on you due to the PvP set 4-piece, which suppresses movement-impairing effects for a few seconds when you cast PW:S on yourself.

Hmmm, quite sure you're wrong. As I recall the 4set just puts you at 100% speed. Any extra haste is not counted (inner will, boot enchant or speed shields).

[kombucha]

I've always found the visual effect of Chakra to be something of a flag in PvP that signals everyone on the opposite team to target me. Also, nothing would make me give up the juke-master that is Penance.