The Future of Ratings and Ret

[anaxie]

If nothing changes with how haste, crit, mastery works for Ret or our 25% melee attack speed <lol> proc, isn't changed to 25% haste "for 3 abilitiy uses" we are going to be in trouble.

Fact, Haste will be desired in Mists, to the point you have a 1 second GCD for all your abilities, with the removal of the talent system < and praying MoP windfury isnt a typo and really is RANGED/MELEE HASTE not attack speed. <Very likely won't since we directly need spell haste for our talent to be functional> We will still need 10-12% ish haste. After that point, with Templar being Gutted a shitton and removal of the proc system/Zeal means across the board, Mastery should be taking a hit, a big one. Haste will very likely just be stacked non stop to increase exo procs, reduce Hammer CD, Reduce Judge CD, and reduce Crusader Strike CD, in addition to GCDs. Crit is up in the air, Mastery depends on if we are seeing +6000-7000 top end weapons really. I can say from first Impression, Hammer Along with the 100%str - Spellpower change, which is a significant boost to HoW scaling. That wings talent to give HoW NO Cooldown and become active is going to be the way to go.

Haste>Crit>Mastery Opening tier of MoP, Discuss.

Also, lol

Glyph of Fire From the Heavens: Your Judgment and Hammer of Wrath critical strikes call down fire from the sky.

[Requital]

If nothing changes with how haste, crit, mastery works for Ret or our 25% melee attack speed <lol> proc, isn't changed to 25% haste "for 3 abilitiy uses" we are going to be in trouble.

Fact, Haste will be desired in Mists, to the point you have a 1 second GCD for all your abilities, with the removal of the talent system < and praying MoP windfury isnt a typo and really is RANGED/MELEE HASTE not attack speed. <Very likely won't since we directly need spell haste for our talent to be functional> We will still need 10-12% ish haste. After that point, with Templar being Gutted a shitton and removal of the proc system/Zeal means across the board, Mastery should be taking a hit, a big one. Haste will very likely just be stacked non stop to increase exo procs, reduce Hammer CD, Reduce Judge CD, and reduce Crusader Strike CD, in addition to GCDs. Crit is up in the air, Mastery depends on if we are seeing +6000-7000 top end weapons really. I can say from first Impression, Hammer Along with the 100%str - Spellpower change, which is a significant boost to HoW scaling. That wings talent to give HoW NO Cooldown and become active is going to be the way to go.

Haste>Crit>Mastery Opening tier of MoP, Discuss.

Also, lol

Not sure Crit is going to overtake Mastery it depends if they increase our critical strike with passive abilities. If they fail too then It's going to be Haste -> Mastery -> Crit imo.

[Grimbold21]

Ugh haste? Really? I don't know why but i found haste the most undesirable haste stat out there. Maybe it's because it has a less visible effect than the others, but it's unactractive.

[anaxie]

Not sure Crit is going to overtake Mastery it depends if they increase our critical strike with passive abilities. If they fail too then It's going to be Haste -> Mastery -> Crit imo.

All crits will be for 200% damage. Exo and Hammer look like significant damage bumps and gain HP which Devalues CS, below them, No zeal, Wings unless changed is a NO CD hammertime spam which would prolly make you ignore Templar. Templar isn't the "big finisher" it's a slightly stronger CS, and with 5 HP it can be weaved in more skillfully as a deadzone filler. The skillcap for ret will actually likely make a comeback similar to TBC I think except faster paced with 1 sec GCD. Also CLC ret is going to make you lose DPS in MoP, Guaranteed.

Strength needs to gain something other then parry, maybe +mastery. With the removal of large amounts of baseline ability crits, avoid AoK on crit trinkets like the plague.

Atleast we agree Haste is #1. We need to push very hard as a community to get the 25% attack speed proc turned into haste used up for 3 abilities. Attack speed for Ret is fucking garbage VS a warrior or Shaman with Flurry up, which actually does help them do more attacks.

[Deleted]

and remember mastery in mop is gona be "base" 13 instead of 8 due to geting 5 from a buff so yea i recon it will be de-valued and haste will take over but we may end up falling into something dot classes currently eqperience with certain plateau points when judge/cs/etc reach another 1 sec of their cd's, with a big plateau once your judge is low enough to mean our T1 talent for movespeed after a judge is up 100% of the time ( if thats ever possible)

[anaxie]

Forget PoJ 1 MIN CD for a 70% speed burst for 8 seconds, i like that talent alot more.

[Vuagnon]

Haste will also be needed to increase the damage caused by each autoattack since the new SoT will cause 10% additional holy damage per each melee swing. With the factors you have mentioned added to this, the dominance of mastery is quite likely to be replaced by haste for Ret in MoP, so I can only concur with your statement at this stage unless some big changes are made.

[anaxie]

Haste will also be needed to increase the damage caused by each autoattack since the new SoT will cause 10% additional holy damage per each melee swing. With the factors you have mentioned added to this, the dominance of mastery is quite likely to be replaced by haste for Ret in MoP, so I can only concur with your statement at this stage unless some big changes are made.

Thats how it works now. Infact its diminished since we no longer have seals of command.

[KKu]

In MOP we have 4 base abilities that can generate holypower : cs judge how exo . Haste effect will significantly increase the usage of those abilities .

Another important thing is haste will reduce our gcd. So haste will be the best stat we want to stack.

Whether crit is going to overtake mastery depends on our weapon damage in mop raid and what percentage of damage hand of light will take.

And we still don't know how hard the new templar's verdict will hit comparing with our new judge/how/exo damage.

[anaxie]

If the updated calc is any indication Templars is SLIGHTLY stronger then CS, i would say about 25% harder. Also you repeated everything I mentioned. ALso Crit is more valueable the less you have, in mop we LOSE ALL ABILITY base crit. We will also have a passive +13 Mastery.

With the removal of baseline ability crit the the emphasis on Exo and HoW being > Crusader strike. We WILL be seeking Crit with our haste gear. Nevermind the fact that under wings you will ignore holy power gains and spam a No Cooldown Hammer for 20 seconds with your strongest trinket for extreme bang.

[KKu]

I am very pleased that they have removed HolyWrath and Cons from Ret abilities. The two spell abilities can hardly proc any melee proc effects (tentacle/landslide/seals proc etc.) compared with our other abilities.

Also we will get HoR as our aoe base ability and divine storm as our aoe finish ability in MOP.

Then we may use various of talent sets according to the raid encounter style .At least two.

One for single target , another for aoe fight.

Sometimes we will need the 5 free divine storm from the talent " Holy Avenger" to boost our aoe damage . or 5 more TVs during 10s boss weaken phase like Hagara

Another heroic spine fight ? Then we will take "sanctified wrath" for non-cd how.

The best single target talent or stats priority for patchwerk fight style won't be hard to finger out in MOP if there will still be a good ret modelling tool like SimCraft.

Aoe talent or special talent for certain boss encounter will much more depend on our raid experience and personal preferences .

[anaxie]

I am very pleased that they have removed HolyWrath and Cons from Ret abilities. The two spell abilities can hardly proc any melee proc effects (tentacle/landslide/seals proc etc.) compared with our other abilities.

Also we will get HoR as our aoe base ability and divine storm as our aoe finish ability in MOP.

Then we may use various of talent sets according to the raid encounter style .At least two.

One for single target , another for aoe fight.

Sometimes we will need the 5 free divine storm from the talent " Holy Avenger" to boost our aoe damage . or 5 more TVs during 10s boss weaken phase like Hagara

Another heroic spine fight ? Then we will take "sanctified wrath" for non-cd how.

The best single target talent or stats priority for patchwerk fight style won't be hard to finger out in MOP if there will still be a good ret modelling tool like SimCraft.

Aoe talent or special talent for certain boss encount will much more depend on our raid experience and personal preferences .

You Act lke holy avenger on TV with its damage being less then half it is now is better then 20 seconds of NO CD hammertime. Nevermind TV will be even shitter since Haste will be the desired stat not mastery.

[Deleted]

It actually seems very interesting. I wonder if I can get out of the clcret facerolling again

[anaxie]

You should be out of it now, it's a loss to use it.

[NaaBcAke]

I actually like where are atm, even with all RNG we have, and with huge changes that are incoming, i just hope they will end like at start of cata, putting us in very very bad possition for first tier.
So far it looks interesting, it will be cool to actually learn all small details all over again

[Banzubie]

You should be out of it now, it's a loss to use it.

How is it a loss to use it now?

[NaaBcAke]

How is it a loss to use it now?

It is slight loss, its still decent if you are learning to play ret imo, but if you want to pull out max, its just cant do all those things you need for that.
(Or at least i dont know how considering i suck with fixing addons) So its just safer to do all by feeling. Plus i trust myself more, because in some situations you want to react differently, its prolly hard to model for every situation how you want him (clc ret) to act.
Tho i still personally have it on my interface, kinda got used from long time ago, i like how it fits

[KKu]

I don't know how they will change our abilities base damage and coefficient at lv 90.

If TV does less average hit damage than exo or how with our t14 gear , with non-cd how we should ignore TV for 20s of course.

A finish move is weaker than a hp generating move ? That sounds interesting ,but not good for our total dps comparing with other classes. I really hope blz won't do that.

If our finish move is so weak , it may hurt our possition for the t14 tier

---------- Post added 2012-03-20 at 06:18 AM ----------

How is it a loss to use it now?

ncb + powa is good enough. you can track your (de)buffs / cds ,and decide what to use by yourself.


clcret is a good ui for ret beginners .But if you want to max your dps on certain boss encounters ,you should know when to ignore it tells you to do .And it's important to judgment by yourself

I think the most powerful feature of clcret/info is not rotation helper ,but custom buff/debuff trinket icd and multi-target sov tracking.

Rotation helper ui like clcret/clcinfo only works well on pure patchwerk style fight. If you set rightly and follow what it tells you to do ,you can play 95 percent capacity .Although you can not reach your limit , you can still perform excellent . But as you known ,many of the boss encounters are not patchwerk style ,then Rotation helper ui will be garbage. For example , h yorsahj , h hagara ,h warmaster ,h spine ,h madness in dragon soul , if you want to do a excellent damage on those boss encounters , try to get out of rotation helper ui and judgement by yourself.

Although I have never been wol ret rank 1 of a certain boss ,I think I said nothing wrong. You can find my name "Kuroky" in some certain boss encounters on wol ret 25hds rank , I hope it should not fall into the second page too soon lol

[anaxie]

well frost strike for instance is 65% weapon damage, everyone across the board hits substantially less harder. Also Art of war doesn't increase exo by 100% damage, No exo dot glyph since they claim to be removing prime <DAMAGE> glyphs, so things could change. HoW looks to be our biggest Go to ability with a fairly short realistically 5 second CD with the first tier of haste, maybe even lower. Unless coifs change for hammer it's going to be far more powerful with its Spellpower coif because 100% str - Spellpower >> 30% ap - spellpower.

In a way reminds me back of Diablo, paladins of wow will finally be hammerdins when we use wings giving us a no CD hammer.

However the lack of a proc system, Zealotry, and yes pathetic holy wrath. We are going to have PLENTY of downtime until we hit a tier like DS where we have full haste gear <similar to DS's full mastery tier>. What this downtime means is the Finisher, especially with 5 holy power is the main FILLER for deadzones. Just try not to fully cap it all out unless you are spamming 20 seconds of hammers.

[KKu]

It's hammer time !!!