"Top secret" 2 billion dollar facility in Utah; to spy on citizens

[saberon]

That's good to know - as long as you don't say anything wrong gov will not put you in detention. Always worked in history of mankind.

Uhhhh no. As long as you don't email terrorists, talk about committing terrorism and attempt to commit acts of terrorism you're good.

[PhillieB]

You act like they're physically checking EVERY email by hand. Instead of having a super computer sort through searching for certain words and flag those for further reading. Although, checking it by hand would hire a lot of people and basically take away any need for unemployment... They don't do that and they won't.
It sucks, but it's not like it's a huge deal.

In before whiners whining about how it IS a huge deal and they don't have the right to search through our privacy and our Right to Privacy and blah blah. Actually read and interpret it properly and you'll notice they don't actually look at our shit. Unless you're a terrorist, then you're fucked. Just be a law abiding citizen. They don't care about drugs. Start sending joke emails to a friend about murder and I doubt they'll be knocking on your door.

I do not think it is as simple as that. It's the philosophical aspect of the issue, where do you draw the line? George Orwell comes to mind...

[saberon]

BTW to everyone here, that super awesome supercomputer is probably already following this page just because of trigger words that are used by people, e.g. Terrorist, bomb, Bin Laden. So chin up, you don't see any NSA agents knocking down your door, so really nothing to worry about.

Hold on, someone at the door...

[Twiddly]

You act like they're physically checking EVERY email by hand. Instead of having a super computer sort through searching for certain words and flag those for further reading. Although, checking it by hand would hire a lot of people and basically take away any need for unemployment... They don't do that and they won't.
It sucks, but it's not like it's a huge deal.

In before whiners whining about how it IS a huge deal and they don't have the right to search through our privacy and our Right to Privacy and blah blah. Actually read and interpret it properly and you'll notice they don't actually look at our shit. Unless you're a terrorist, then you're fucked. Just be a law abiding citizen. They don't care about drugs. Start sending joke emails to a friend about murder and I doubt they'll be knocking on your door.

What if you send an email to a friend about a term paper on terrorism, the lyrics to the song "Arab money" and end with a prayer to Allah? think that would be noticed? Or would you have to have a link to wiki leaks in it to?

(Funny read: look up bradley manning court email mishap, the prosecutors in that case were having trouble communicating, because saying "Wikileaks" in an email automatically blocked it from going through..)

[Jangri-]

" It has created a supercomputer of almost unimaginable speed to look for patterns and unscramble codes."

This sounds a lot like Digital Fortress from Dan Brown. Anyway, looking for patterns is possible and likely to happen. Unscrambling codes? Not so sure. 128bit encryption is pretty much mathematicly unbreakable.

[Balir]

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/201...tacenter/all/1

Very long article, but worth the read. Interesting how much they seem to care about what people are google searching or emailing each other, seems like that 2 billion dollars could have done some good instead of just another spy facility.

---------- Post added 2012-03-20 at 02:19 AM ----------

"In the process—and for the first time since Watergate and the other scandals of the Nixon administration—the NSA has turned its surveillance apparatus on the US and its citizens. It has established listening posts throughout the nation to collect and sift through billions of email messages and phone calls, whether they originate within the country or overseas. It has created a supercomputer of almost unimaginable speed to look for patterns and unscramble codes. Finally, the agency has begun building a place to store all the trillions of words and thoughts and whispers captured in its electronic net. And, of course, it’s all being done in secret. To those on the inside, the old adage that NSA stands for Never Say Anything applies more than ever."


Why?

To sell all your Data to Apple, Google and Microsoft. Ad Revenue ftw!

I reckon get together with your mates (if you dare ) and in all your normal text messages and e-mails, just drop in random words like Dam, Government building, Bridge etc. First one to spot the surveillance van across the road wins a prize.

[procne]

pam-pa-ram-pam-pam

Things like this always remind me of Deus ex:

http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Aquinas

Aquinas was publicly known as a philanthropic effort to make the internet a better place, but in reality was a brilliant tool that allowed Majestic-12 clandestine surveillance over the internet

http://deusex.wikia.com/wiki/Bob_Page

Instead of turning him into something akin to a super-soldier, Page's modifications would allow him to link himself to the Aquinas Router (which monitored all communication technologies on earth)

[saberon]

I do not think it is as simple as that. It's the philosophical aspect of the issue, where do you draw the line? George Orwell comes to mind...

What philosophical aspect of the issue exactly? They are passively gathering information, putting it through a supercomputer, and if anything pops up, someone checks to see if you're a terrorist. What exactly do you have a problem with?

Comparing it to Orwell is like comparing a mum putting a bandaid on a skinned knee to a cyborg-alien doing a heart-phlang operation on a human-arachnid hybrid's child's left phellum whilst simeltaneously watching Diagnosis Murder through his left optometrical lens. Backwards.

[Jager]

To sell all your Data to Apple, Google and Microsoft. Ad Revenue ftw!

I reckon get together with your mates (if you dare ) and in all your normal text messages and e-mails, just drop in random words like Dam, Government building, Bridge etc. First one to spot the surveillance van across the road wins a prize.

That sounds like one awesome game!

[PhillieB]

" It has created a supercomputer of almost unimaginable speed to look for patterns and unscramble codes."

This sounds a lot like Digital Fortress from Dan Brown. Anyway, looking for patterns is possible and likely to happen. Unscrambling codes? Not so sure. 128bit encryption is pretty much mathematicly unbreakable.

Or a Diffie-Hellman key exchange - For the more mathematically inclined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie%...n_key_exchange
For the less mathematically inclined: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QnD2c4Xovk

---------- Post added 2012-03-20 at 09:53 AM ----------

What philosophical aspect of the issue exactly? They are passively gathering information, putting it through a supercomputer, and if anything pops up, someone checks to see if you're a terrorist. What exactly do you have a problem with?

Comparing it to Orwell is like comparing a mum putting a bandaid on a skinned knee to a cyborg-alien doing a heart-phlang operation on a human-arachnid hybrid's child's left phellum whilst simeltaneously watching Diagnosis Murder through his left optometrical lens. Backwards.

I'm not gonna comment on the Orwell analogy becuase I think if you read that it doesn't even make sense to you. Again - Where do you draw the line. Are cameras in a public places ok? Are cameras in your workplace ok? Are cameras in your homes ok? How much privacy are we/you willing conceed for security?

[Twiddly]

Or a Diffie-Hellman key exchange - For the more mathematically inclined: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffie%...n_key_exchange
For the less mathematically inclined: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QnD2c4Xovk

lol. I wish I could find this video I used to have of some politician that was talking to wells fargo office, and told them to stay away from downtown, as there was a bomb going off! (He knew about a bomb emergency drill happening later in the day, and told his personal banker about it to save her the hassle) and he was contacted within hours about him being a possible terrorist. The bank 100% claims they did not tell anyone, so it makes you wonder just how much they listen in on our everyday conversations!

[Jangri-]

Thanks, nice read

[hellboyy]

ppl complain when government is monitoring ppl. ppl complain when government failed to monitor guys like 9/11 bombers on american soil. can't make every1 happy.

[Lynarii]

" It has created a supercomputer of almost unimaginable speed to look for patterns and unscramble codes."

This sounds a lot like Digital Fortress from Dan Brown. Anyway, looking for patterns is possible and likely to happen. Unscrambling codes? Not so sure. 128bit encryption is pretty much mathematicly unbreakable.

Wrong kind of codes. They're not trying to break 128bit encryption, they're trying to get the computer to break verbal codes (and other basic cyphers). Actual terrorists of any worth aren't actually going to be sending emails out saying "I'm going to blow up <blank> on <date>", they're going to replace the pertinent details with different words and phrases to make it less obvious what they're saying. It's one of the no-brainer tactics that is done because even though it's not really going to fool professionals for long, it means you need a process more complex than ctrl-F on a few keywords to pick out.

[Deleted]

In before whiners whining about how it IS a huge deal and they don't have the right to search through our privacy and our Right to Privacy and blah blah. Actually read and interpret it properly and you'll notice they don't actually look at our shit. Unless you're a terrorist, then you're fucked. Just be a law abiding citizen. They don't care about drugs. Start sending joke emails to a friend about murder and I doubt they'll be knocking on your door.

Here's the thing. They do not have the right to look at your private e-mail traffic without a warrant from a judge. They do not have the constitutional authority to do this.

Furthermore, the vast majority of instances where the Patriot Act has been used for warrantless searches, has been in drug related crimes - not terrorism.


It's mind boggling that some people are actually fine with the government tracking all communications on this planet. They live in this utopia where the government is always just looking out for the interests of the people, it's never corrupted. "They would never use this information wrong." You can't that stupid.

[ciggy]

Absolutely insane some of the things that are happening in the world right now.

[Deleted]

Uhhhh no. As long as you don't email terrorists, talk about committing terrorism and attempt to commit acts of terrorism you're good.

Yes because these unelected bureaucrats would never use the endless information they have at their disposal for any other purposes?

Selling information of different corporate e-mails alone will make you filthy rich.

[Jager]

Here's the thing. They do not have the right to look at your private e-mail traffic without a warrant from a judge. They do not have the constitutional authority to do this.

Furthermore, the vast majority of instances where the Patriot Act has been used for warrantless searches, has been in drug related crimes - not terrorism.

It's mind boggling that some people are actually fine with the government tracking all communications on this planet. They live in this utopia where the government is always just looking out for the interests of the people, it's never corrupted. "They would never use this information wrong." You can't that stupid.

You should read the book 'The Cobra' by Frederick forsyth, the government changes the classification of drug smuggling from a crime to an act of terrorism, so they use special forces guys to go and sink boats and use spy drones to track the smugglers, it's really good, and kinda scary how by simply changing a few words on a sheet of paper, drunk smuggling goes from ending up in prison, so having a bunch of special forces dudes pointing a machine gun at your head.

[Deleted]

You should read the book 'The Cobra' by Frederick forsyth, the government changes the classification of drug smuggling from a crime to an act of terrorism, so they use special forces guys to go and sink boats and use spy drones to track the smugglers, it's really good, and kinda scary how by simply changing a few words on a sheet of paper, drunk smuggling goes from ending up in prison, so having a bunch of special forces dudes pointing a machine gun at your head.

Their reasoning is that the money in drug business ultimately funds terrorism, which does ultimately happen . However, college kid Bill who has 10 grams of cannabis is probably not part of an international terrorist organization, yet they use Patriot Act powers to search his house and stage it as a burglary without having a warrant from a judge.

[Jager]

Their reasoning is that the money in drug business ultimately funds terrorism, which does ultimately happen . However, college kid Bill who has 10 grams of cannabis is probably not part of an international terrorist organization, yet they use Patriot Act powers to search his house and stage it as a burglary without having a warrant from a judge.

Ok they didn't go that far in the book, they only went after the big boys. But there is a simple solution to your problem, don't do drugs. Every conspiracy theory on this forum comes back to, if you're not doing anything wrong, you got nothing to worry about, but i'll admit doing a search of a kids room cause he smoked a joint is a bit excessive.