1. #1

    New to monk tank

    Recent reroll from Guardian Druid to a monk tank because I an unable to get into a mythic guild. (690 Druid tank with decent logs) I have moments one monk where I generally feel a bit spikier than Druid, is this normal ?
    Here are some logs to asses me on my first BRF normal as a monk tank.
    Remember I am retooling from Druid so any comparisons to them would be great.
    Any tips will be greatly appreciated. I am Sincerely ~ reports/WCavbpBH9t3ng6TP#type=damage-taken&options=128

    The report is from Warcraft logs.

  2. #2
    Your shuffle uptime is horrendous and you're not using purifying brew anywhere near enough, from what I can see.

    Misume - US Magtheridon
    The Cult of Elusive Brew - A guide to playing Brewmaster Monk in Warlords of Draenor
    If you have any questions, you can find me at Misume#1172 or on twitter @misumemonk, or at my stream.

  3. #3
    1) 55% Shuffle uptime... with serenity (what?!?) - should be 100%
    2) You're capped on energy more often than you're not
    3) Capping out/inefficiently spending Chi on BoK/Guards
    4) Poor use of Keg Smash (only 28 casts out of 39-40 possible)
    5) Only *5* uses of jab...
    4) Low EB usage (20% uptime - looks like you're holding it until 15 stacks and only using it then outside of 2 circumstances)
    5) In a 5 minute fight you used Serenity twice. (could be used 4 times)
    6) In a 5 minute fight you used Purifying Brew 7 times with serenity (the point of serenity is basically to purify everything due to high Shuffle uptime)
    7) No use of Fortifying Brew
    8) No use of Zen Med (shattering smash)
    9) Your itemization is pretty poor (my 630 CM set has nearly 700 more crit than you with 200 less mastery)
    10) Despite higher MS you're not making use of your increased Gift of the Ox heals
    11) Expel harm only 9 times in 5 minutes with 50% overheal - get a weak aura to notify you of min thresholds for expel harm and use it frequently
    12) Don't use mark of blackrock - use mark of the thunderlord/frostwolf (crit/multistrike)

    TL:DR - Read this, you're not really doing anything right: http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...king-Guide-6-1
    Quote Originally Posted by Mareeta View Post
    Your job is to maximize your output while traversing the mechanics and staying alive, regardless of role.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by dementedlogic View Post
    1) 55% Shuffle uptime... with serenity (what?!?) - should be 100%
    2) You're capped on energy more often than you're not
    3) Capping out/inefficiently spending Chi on BoK/Guards
    4) Poor use of Keg Smash (only 28 casts out of 39-40 possible)
    5) Only *5* uses of jab...
    4) Low EB usage (20% uptime - looks like you're holding it until 15 stacks and only using it then outside of 2 circumstances)
    5) In a 5 minute fight you used Serenity twice. (could be used 4 times)
    6) In a 5 minute fight you used Purifying Brew 7 times with serenity (the point of serenity is basically to purify everything due to high Shuffle uptime)
    7) No use of Fortifying Brew
    8) No use of Zen Med (shattering smash)
    9) Your itemization is pretty poor (my 630 CM set has nearly 700 more crit than you with 200 less mastery)
    10) Despite higher MS you're not making use of your increased Gift of the Ox heals
    11) Expel harm only 9 times in 5 minutes with 50% overheal - get a weak aura to notify you of min thresholds for expel harm and use it frequently
    12) Don't use mark of blackrock - use mark of the thunderlord/frostwolf (crit/multistrike)

    Hi look at the whole log not just black hand. I know I did terrible on last fight. 100% ? 100% when effective. By ox heals you mean the little orbs ? I understand my itemization. I'm limited to the items I have been able to grab, it's been adjusted since that specific log. Saying I have a ton of weak auras, I swapped out the rest of the haste gear I had. I'm trying to gear mastery> crit at the moment. I'll assume that's right ? Saying I'm doing nothing right is pretty offensive, I've read that guide and plethora of others several times.

    Quote Originally Posted by Misume View Post
    Your shuffle uptime is horrendous and you're not using purifying brew anywhere near enough, from what I can see.
    Please look at the other fights, I know the black hand kill was atrocious.
    Last edited by Healspls; 2015-03-29 at 08:57 PM.

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Healspls View Post
    Please look at the other fights, I know the black hand kill was atrocious.
    Just looked at shuffle uptimes and don't have anymore time to go into more at the moment but:

    Oregorger 51%
    Thogar 77%
    Hans and Franz 85%
    Kromog 94%
    Maidens 85%
    Blast Furance 76%
    Blackhand 55%
    The rest were like 97%

    There is absolutely 0 reason that shuffle should ever fall while playing Serenity. I will probably have time to go into it a little more later but shuffle really is the absolute most basic thing when it comes to learning Brewmaster so I expect to find a lot more wrong when I dive in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tradewind View Post
    Basically if you call a "roof" a "ruff" you're a crazy person. That's where I draw the line.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Healspls View Post
    Please look at the other fights, I know the black hand kill was atrocious.
    Kromog then.
    1) Shuffle is a bit delayed and has two gaps, though 94% is not as terrible as 55%. But should be ~100% with Serenity, really.
    2) Serenity casts - 3/3, good.
    3) Elusive Brew uptime seems to be good, but I see that you only use 15s EBs.
    4) Expel Harm usage is awful ("O" stands for overheal):
    00:00:26.056 Sincerely Expel Harm Sincerely +0 (O: 29857)
    00:00:50.012 Sincerely Expel Harm Sincerely +*0* (O: 104284)
    00:01:38.181 Sincerely Expel Harm Sincerely +9467 (O: 52397)
    00:02:13.408 Sincerely Expel Harm Sincerely +0 (O: 44416)
    00:02:48.709 Sincerely Expel Harm Sincerely +*37480* (O: 96941)
    00:03:11.369 Sincerely Expel Harm Sincerely +*0* (O: 110353)
    00:04:09.847 Sincerely Expel Harm Sincerely +*0* (O: 69777)
    Once you casted it with 0% (I guess?) Resolve:
    00:03:51.984 Sincerely Expel Harm Sincerely +27925
    5) Only 8 casts of Purifying Brew, that's bad.
    6) Keg Smash casts - 27/31, could be better.
    7) Jab usage seems to be pretty low too. It's not a great spell but sometimes it's the only way to avoid energy capping. And take a look at #8
    8) You seem to sit at capped energy for long periods of time - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ce=7&spell=103
    9) And sometimes you overcap Chi - https://www.warcraftlogs.com/reports...ce=7&spell=112 (WCL assumes that maximum Chi is 5). Once you even used Keg Smash at 4 Chi.
    Last edited by Sinelle; 2015-03-29 at 09:56 PM.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinelle View Post
    Kromog then.
    1) Shuffle is a bit delayed and has two gaps, though 94% is not as terrible as 55%. But should be ~100% with Serenity, really.
    2) Serenity casts - 3/3, good.
    3) Elusive Brew uptime seems to be good, but I see that you only use 15s EBs.
    4) Expel Harm usage is awful ("O" stands for overheal): Once you casted it with 0% (I guess?) Resolve:
    5) Only 8 casts of Purifying Brew, that's bad.
    6) Keg Smash casts - 27/31, could be better.
    7) Jab usage seems to be pretty low too. It's not a great spell but sometimes it's the only way to avoid energy capping. And take a look at #8
    8) You seem to sit at capped energy for long periods of time - #type=resources&fight=20&source=7&spell=103[/url]
    9) And sometimes you overcap Chi - /WCavbpBH9t3ng6TP#type=resources&fight=20&source=7&spell=112[/url] (WCL assumes that maximum Chi is 5). Once you even used Keg Smash at 4 Chi.
    This is what I was looking for.

    Can you check darmac ?
    I seem to know where I'm going wrong with energy. I'm assuming the only thing over BOK in serenity is purifying brew and keg smash ? Use elusive brew more. Should I be trying to cycle elusive brew and guard while actively tanking ? I try my best to pop EB at low resolve and guard at high resolve.

  8. #8
    Ok, im not the best analyzing logs, so take this with a grain of salt and check what i say urself or wait until one of our experienced guys shows up and corrects me, but thats what i see:
    1. 6 times Purify. That is way too low, espacially with Serenity. 4 Serenity casts equal 40 Seconds of free Purify, just spam it. Its off the GCD and free, so whatever.
    2. 35/43 Keg Smashes, way too low. Darmac doesnt really involve high movement, and delaying KS is like the worst thing ever.
    3. 9 Casts of Guard, every 30/60 Seconds you cap it out, and with 9 uses u definately did. Just use it. Also keep in mind that waiting for high resolve to hit it isnt really the best thing to do. If you got high resolve, you took alot of damage. You should use Guard when expecting alot of dmg. Since you will be at high resolve anyways while actively tanking, well. Use it. I think you got the point by now.
    4. Too low expel harm usage. It has higher priority than Jab when below ~90% hp or smth as it hits harder than Jab AND heals you.
    5. EB uptimes seem to be random/too low. Use it with every wave of adds on Darmac, they hit quite hard and its all auto atack, so its very efficient.
    6. Im confused by your talents. Chi Brew and RJW seem odd to me. Xuen should deal way higher damage and Power Strikes generate more Chi.
    7. ToD can be used way more often. Dont use the glyph on this fight ( what i assume u have since you only used it once?) and use it for every mount ( your kill was very fast, i dont know if that fits. But one time is not enough since it easily hits 400k+)
    8. Healing Elixirs get most value from PB, and since you didnt purify enough this goes to waste. The healing of this talent is HUGE and you are missing out on it.
    9. Tiger Power 95% uptime. Should really be 100%, its free and you got loads of free GCDs to fill.
    10. Shuffle is okay, still aim for those 99,8+ % tough.
    11. Also, alot of energy capping. Try to be between 40, if EH/KS is coming up, and 80, where you should start considering to Jab once to avoid capping. Thats what works best for me.

    One tip from me personally would be when using Healing elixirs, everytime you Guard while having HE up, hit Purify to trigger HE. Your selfhealing with Guard on is increased, so its quite nice ( also gives huge HPS, nice to piss healers off in Pugs ).

    If anything of this is wrong, correct me as im not that great at reading logs by now. Im just starting to get into it.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Healspls View Post
    the only thing over BOK in serenity is purifying brew
    PB is not on GCD, you can use both. As of Keg Smash, it depends on what you are trying to achieve, using KS in Serenity is a DPS gain but you lose 2 Chi.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noveo View Post
    2. 35/43 Keg Smashes, way too low. Darmac doesnt really involve high movement, and delaying KS is like the worst thing ever.
    3. 9 Casts of Guard, every 30/60 Seconds you cap it out, and with 9 uses u definately did. Just use it. Also keep in mind that waiting for high resolve to hit it isnt really the best thing to do. If you got high resolve, you took alot of damage. You should use Guard when expecting alot of dmg. Since you will be at high resolve anyways while actively tanking, well. Use it. I think you got the point by now.
    6. Im confused by your talents. Chi Brew and RJW seem odd to me. Xuen should deal way higher damage and Power Strikes generate more Chi.

    One tip from me personally would be when using Healing elixirs, everytime you Guard while having HE up, hit Purify to trigger HE. Your selfhealing with Guard on is increased, so its quite nice ( also gives huge HPS, nice to piss healers off in Pugs ).

    If anything of this is wrong, correct me as im not that great at reading logs by now. Im just starting to get into it.
    2. On Darmac sometimes it's worth to delay KS a bit if you're aiming for maximum damage output.
    3. Maybe it's just me but I use Guard to mitigate spikes and as an emergency button instead of trying to achieve max HPS possible.
    6. If adds live long enough, RJW is definitely better.

    And HE doesn't benefit from Guard's increased self-healing.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinelle View Post
    PB is not on GCD, you can use both. As of Keg Smash, it depends on what you are trying to achieve, using KS in Serenity is a DPS gain but you lose 2 Chi.
    2. On Darmac sometimes it's worth to delay KS a bit if you're aiming for maximum damage output.
    3. Maybe it's just me but I use Guard to mitigate spikes and as an emergency button instead of trying to achieve max HPS possible.
    6. If adds live long enough, RJW is definitely better.

    And HE doesn't benefit from Guard's increased self-healing.


    Is healing elixir still good ? I figured to use it in situations were damp and diffuse weren't used. Yeah purify right after auto swing timer is what I've seen. So it isn't necessary to use anything but book during serenity, I'll assume you want just enough energy until the next serenity cast.

  11. #11
    #showtooltip
    /cast serenity
    /cast blackout kick
    /cast purifying brew

    Copy that macro and spam it while under serenity/to activate it

    Spamming it you build up ~60s of shuffle. After that you only Need a handful of more blackout kicks To let not drop shuffle. Every other chi can be spent on purify or guard. When serenity is up again Spam that macro again

    Elusive brew is imo very situational, there is No rule which says ,,use it here and there,,. There are Boss specials you can dodge, others cannot be dodged, raid is taking heavy raid damage and so on. Dont wait until 15 Stacks in General. Use it when you Need it.

    Some examples from my point of view.

    - oregorger: whenever you are tanking. Tankswap sequence is very short here
    - kromog: nearly everytime it is possible. Melee and fist of stone are dodgeable
    - maidens: depending on duty. Blade dash of sorka is dodgeable. When on marak duty pool Stacks before you reach 20% to minimize sanguine strikes raid damage
    - flamebinder: I pool some stacks for tanking The dog, so I minimize The melee Dmg during this Phase. I want my guards and DH for The breathes
    Last edited by Kabator; Yesterday at 08:48 AM.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Sinelle View Post
    As of Keg Smash, it depends on what you are trying to achieve, using KS in Serenity is a DPS gain but you lose 2 Chi.
    2. On Darmac sometimes it's worth to delay KS a bit if you're aiming for maximum damage output.
    3. Maybe it's just me but I use Guard to mitigate spikes and as an emergency button instead of trying to achieve max HPS possible.
    6. If adds live long enough, RJW is definitely better.

    And HE doesn't benefit from Guard's increased self-healing.
    2. I dont think many groups have troubles killing the Adds fast enough, and delaying KS for this would increase the overall damage, but your damage on the boss goes down. On mythic this may be viable tough, OP posten Normal logs tough so i guess thats where we should focus for now.

    3. When taking spiky damage and wanting to change this i guess the tip : Just use Guard to mitigate those isnt too far off.

    6. Adds wont live long enough for RJW to be worth. If they do, your group has other problems than squeezing out the maximum tank dps.

    The point with HE is interesting tough. Is it mentioned anywhere ingame? Ive never seen this information before, neither ingame nor in this forum.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Noveo View Post
    The point with HE is interesting tough. Is it mentioned anywhere ingame? Ive never seen this information before, neither ingame nor in this forum.
    I mixed it up with Surging Mist, sorry. SM is bugged but HE works fine, checked it on a dummy.
    Quote Originally Posted by Noveo View Post
    6. Adds wont live long enough for RJW to be worth. If they do, your group has other problems than squeezing out the maximum tank dps.
    5-10 seconds is long enough for RJW to be worth, that's from my personal experience on the encounter.

  14. #14
    Question is, are the 5-10 Seconds RJW on the adds better than Xuen on the boss? Im bad at math, and dont know. But personally i rate damage on the Boss higher than meter padding ( what i really feel it is ), and Xuen is better for exactly that.

  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Noveo View Post
    Question is, are the 5-10 Seconds RJW on the adds better than Xuen on the boss? Im bad at math, and dont know. But personally i rate damage on the Boss higher than meter padding ( what i really feel it is ), and Xuen is better for exactly that.
    I share your opinion. Boss/Mount Damage > Pushing meters on adds. RJW is nice to pickup the adds, but there are many other options in our toolkit (Dave, Dizzlying, Kegsmash, Chi Ex) to do this
    LF Guild - Armory
    Also looking for a CM Gold Group

  16. #16
    As far as the adds, I look at it this way. They need to die regardless. If it's not preventable to stop their spawning (I've seen some pushes to mounting before an add wave was able to spawn), then they need to be killed. In this case, the only wasted damage is the dots and "fire and forget" aoes that don't deal their full damage. Instant damage, whether on the boss or the adds, will have the effect that was needed. Can some abilities have been better served as boss damage? Of course. But, it's basically the difference between a boss dying 5 seconds earlier, or the adds dying 5 seconds earlier.

    Alternately, if the boss is NEAR death, then add damage is pretty much inconsequential. Unless their survival would prevent a boss kill, then a final amount of adds are generally able to be ignored, to prioritize the boss.

    That said, we also can't forget, that Xuen has a 3 target cleave. So, it's not like he's useless on adds too. Just not as effective. While being more effective at boss damage.

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Kabator View Post
    I share your opinion. Boss/Mount Damage > Pushing meters on adds. RJW is nice to pickup the adds, but there are many other options in our toolkit (Dave, Dizzlying, Kegsmash, Chi Ex) to do this
    I actually did h drama yesterday and ran RJW, I like the tiger better. Especially since most of the fight I rolled backwards to avoid rend & tear. Logs are from normal (purposely) as that was one of the first times I ever tanked on anything outside of Druid. Xuen cleaves too doesn't he ?

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Shieldarm View Post
    As far as the adds, I look at it this way. They need to die regardless. If it's not preventable to stop their spawning (I've seen some pushes to mounting before an add wave was able to spawn), then they need to be killed. In this case, the only wasted damage is the dots and "fire and forget" aoes that don't deal their full damage. Instant damage, whether on the boss or the adds, will have the effect that was needed. Can some abilities have been better served as boss damage? Of course. But, it's basically the difference between a boss dying 5 seconds earlier, or the adds dying 5 seconds earlier.

    Alternately, if the boss is NEAR death, then add damage is pretty much inconsequential. Unless their survival would prevent a boss kill, then a final amount of adds are generally able to be ignored, to prioritize the boss.

    That said, we also can't forget, that Xuen has a 3 target cleave. So, it's not like he's useless on adds too. Just not as effective. While being more effective at boss damage.

    This is probably the worst way to look at the situation. Really. You are just bullshitting yourself and your guild like this.
    There are classes with minimal/no loss on ST for cleaving, like WL, Shaman, warrior, whatever. Enough classes have instant AoE burst which doesnt make their ST ( much ) worse. This means, every point of damage you, as a brm, sacrifice to deal higher add damage is just wasted. Let it be done by your DPS, who dont need to change a very nice ST burst talent to an mediocre cleave talent that doesnt give you anything concerning boss damage, as 1 RJW should, if i remember correctly, deal just a bit more damage than a jab to a single target.
    Furthermore Xuen is nice to push in damage in the last phase with 2nd pot+ BA on use trinkets where it actually matters, not like the adds who dont deal serious damage at all ( at least not heroic ) and would be dead in 1 additional second anyway.

    Long story short. Boss damage > Add damage because reasons, DPS dont trade off ST for cleave -> You dont dare taking RJW if not going for dps ranks.

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