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  1. #1
    Moderator Babylonius's Avatar
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    [RANT THREAD] Get it all out

    With the insane amount of ranting and complaining appearing in this thread its super difficult to keep up with how quickly it pops up. Unfortunately, it also incites argument, discussion, and in some some situations, name calling and trolling. So I've decided the Monk community needed a place to vent.

    Went a full boss fight with one trinket proc? Scream about how RNG based WW is.
    Tired of absorb classes sniping your l33t heals? Time to get sarcastic.
    Blizzard took something you love away, or will be? Feel the righteous fury.

    Here are the rules:

    1. DO NOT ARGUE with posts you disagree with
    2. Rant as much or as little as you'd like
    3. All topics must be Monk-focused
    4. All time is allowed; past/present/future, live/PTR/beta/datamined
    5. No need to be constructive
    6. Add to other's rants if you agree
    7. REPEAT: DO NOT ARGUE
    8. All normal forum rules apply




    Anyone seen breaking these rules will have their post deleted and likely an infraction given.

    This thread is meant to get the non-constructive ranting and posts out of the other threads while still letting people vent.

    New threads or posts with no purpose other than to vent outside of this thread will be deleted or moved.
    Last edited by Babylonius; 2015-11-25 at 04:20 PM.

  2. #2
    Mechagnome cqwrteur's Avatar
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    I am very happy that mistweaver has no niche everywhere!
    Quote Originally Posted by Totaltotemic View Post
    For example, instead of "Mistweavers do not have enough u******", you should say "Mistweavers do not have a reason to be brought to raids over other healers".
    RemUplift addon - ControlPanel addon - Geodew's Mistweaver Stat Weights [7.0]

  3. #3
    The typical play experience of the Mistweaver.


  4. #4
    thank you for opening this!
    I'm far from a very good MW or experienced but I've been playing it constantly as my main since mid MoP and am quite emotional about it. with the redesign coming up, I'm also in the club that is feeling sad and angry about things we will lose. Mainly because I don't want to be JUST a healer. All the cool non healing abilities MW either had or still have, without making it overwhelming as I found druid to be, suited me so perfectly...and now each day it seems there's news about those exact cool things going away..which then made me think about things they took away from us with WoD ...salt to the wound as we would say here...
    such as:
    disable - why did we have to lose that? I had room on my bars, and I was using it, in pve...
    zen med (in its original form) - was it too OP? why cant we have it still as personal and a utility?
    and grapple weapon - yes, I know everyone lost disarms (I think...) but that was not JUST a disarm...I mean how cool was that spell...you disarm the enemy making it hurt your tank less meanwhile making you heal for more.....

    I'm sure I forgot some but meh...and won't go into Legion stuff ...on the other hand (to end in a positive note) at some point I think they were gonna remove transcendence from MWs when WoD was coming..and they didn't...so there might be hope for one or two cool things to stick around

    if anyone feels like thinking about it, here's a question, if you could pick one spell/ability to "save" out of things they are planning to remove for MWs in Legion, which one would it be?

  5. #5
    Bloodsail Admiral killwithpwr's Avatar
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    Im not a monk... /rant.

    But way to go! This is a great idea and should be stickied in every single section of the forum!

    +1.


    Madness will consume you!!!

  6. #6
    Fucking windwalker monk. Can't live with them nor without them. Fuck.

  7. #7
    i am 100% sure blizzard created the monk to test it for Demon Hunter. they failed with MW so they dumped it down to a normal healer. so at the end, you dont need a monk. want a melee healer? go pally lol or disc. and leather DD or Tank go Demon Hunter. just watched the fat boss preview and i am pissed as hell.

  8. #8
    First of all, Thanks Babylonius for this..

    But here goes.. I hate the way they have simplified the monk specs. Talents my ass. None of the talents look interesting or make it complex enough worthy of what Monk was in WoD.. many of them just being a rehash/uninteresting.. Fuck the fact that they simplified this spec, it just destroyed a unique spec to make it a generic spec.

    Something albeit a little clunky held a spot so unique that it required really good skill to play at a high level. Fuck the changes for SEF. Really don't like that they REMOVED targeting.. I loved being able to dps an add 20-30 y away even when I had a bunch of adds in my face just cause they didn't have a priority and more than likely the ROFLstorm or the ROFLnova took them out anyway.

    Hate that they removed TeB which required you to be aware of the fight all the time.. made you learn when phases change, fights change so you won't waste those precious stacks..

    The only positive I like is - you can now start of with 4/5 Chi and can now be at 100% at start.

    Regardless, I love the ww monk.. and they can kill the spec.. make it downright horrible, dumb it where it becomes a one button spec. I fell in love with the lore, the uniqueness and someday I hope Blizz brings back some of the more intricate rotations.. anyway rant over. Thank you. #windwalkerforlife!

  9. #9
    As a MW I feel like they remove the complete uniqueness of our spec but they don't clean up after themselves.

    Having melee attacks is stupid if you aren't counted as a melee and CJL spam isn't engaging gameplay when we have periods of no healing.
    Making everything to cast and moving away from weaving Surging/Enveloping mists under our Soothing mists seems to remove even more flavor from the class.
    Slowing down the monk class in general seems like a really bad idea because monk gameplay thrives on being fast. (Counts for all 3 specs)
    The removal of fistweaving is blizzards capitulation and I fear that disc will be made into a full healer again in the expanison after legion.
    Giving hpala the mastery that would have been awesome for MW all this time feels like a kick in the balls.

    Sry for my disjointed ramble but I just had to write it down somewhere and thanks for opening this thread

  10. #10
    I fell in love with Brewmaster when monk was first released. Aside from the very apparent downtime we will have with our rotation (which is something I can't stand), our talents are beyond unimaginative. This has made me SERIOUSLY consider making something else my main... and if that comes to be then I will be quite bitter about it because of the passion i have for this spec. Anyway, let's look at our talents:

    15
    Chi Burst, Chi Wave - Nothing new here...

    Eye of the Tiger - A passive self heal for likely single target encounters that adds zero depth to gameplay. Push a button you already push and get healed.

    30
    Tiger's Lust, Celerity - again nothing new here

    Chi Torpedo - this talent moved up here is something I'm perfectly ok with, a longer roll with the movement speed is perfectly fine and I can see myself using this instead of Tiger's Lust on occasion

    45
    A completely new row of talents that improve upon our active mitigation abilities

    Light Brewing - Passive - Neat, I get to hit my brew buttons a little more

    Black Ox Brew - Active (the only NEW active ability we get) - Maintain 100% ironskin brew and purify large amounts of damage then pop the brew and have it all ready again. During tank swap encounters this ability seems very very strong and I'm actually happy with it.

    Secret Ingredients - This and black ox brew are the only talents that provide ANY semblance of modified gameplay but i don't think its stronger than the other two talents which makes it just meh

    60
    Ring of Peace - lol why is this in the game again? This should seriously be a PVP talent.

    Black Ox Statue - Not sure how this classifies as CC but since it shares with Leg Sweep the only thing this will hurt, imo, are dungeons/CMs where you can have the statue take hits and still be able to leg sweep once you have the aggro. In raids LS is situational and so is Statue. Reeeeally going to hurt in CMs and not looking forward to that.

    Leg Sweep - amazing as always

    75
    I'm fine with these as they are, no real reason to change them.

    90
    Rushing Jade Wind - No complaints other than that it's nothing new. I don't think I used RJW at all in HFC so it would be nice to see this become relevant again

    Invoke Niuzao - single target damage for the sake of being flavorful? Add damage reduction even if its something small like 10-20%. Or how about being imaginative and giving it the ability that redirects half of your stagger damage to it. Don't want to spend a charge on purify? Use niuzao to redirect some of that stagger. Or SOMETHING interactive.

    Special Delivery - Kind of cool. 30% chance seems entirely too low and AGAIN all it is is an added bonus for pushing buttons we would normally push. There's virtually no gameplay enhancement here.

    100
    An absolute joke of a tier. I looked at these and then I looked at other tanks talents and I was genuinely baffled.

    Elusive Dance - More chances for a non interactive mechanic to happen. I dodge an extra attack or two. Am i supposed to notice? Am i supposed to scream OMG thank god for elusive dance, that just saved my ass!

    Fortified Mind - Cool, another bonus for pushing buttons you already push. I'll get maybe one extra fort brew per encounter? Ridiculous.

    High Tolerance - 5% stagger damage. The definition of unimaginative. It's even more pathetic than Soul Dance (how is this possible). Then it's going to take the icon for Avert Harm as another slap in the face.


    Speaking of Avert Harm, why isn't that a talent now? Paladins get Aegis of the Light which gives DR to anyone standing behind the tank. THAT's a talent. THAT provides enhanced gameplay

    None of these talents aside from black ox brew and the underwhelming Secret Ingredients add or enhance to gameplay. The artifact tree better blow me away in this regard or I'm going to have to do what I DON'T want to do and switch specs/class. Maybe we need to, as a community, design interactive talents together and pitch them to Blizzard.
    Last edited by Senkei; 2015-11-25 at 04:59 PM.

  11. #11
    Stood in the Fire Lumiair's Avatar
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    As much as I wanted MW to get gutted and re-worked, they absolutely slaughtered the spec.

    All the bickering about utility is annoying as hell. I could care less about raid utility, I just want to keep my personal utility: ranged immunity. Sitting out in the ranged group isn't what I signed up for!

    And no longer getting to go full Fistweaver for all the boring farm fights is possibly the worst part since we'll just drop a healer; aka me. Hate hate hate having to go dps.

  12. #12
    The Patient Solemnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiair View Post
    As much as I wanted MW to get gutted and re-worked, they absolutely slaughtered the spec.

    All the bickering about utility is annoying as hell. I could care less about raid utility, I just want to keep my personal utility: ranged immunity. Sitting out in the ranged group isn't what I signed up for!

    And no longer getting to go full Fistweaver for all the boring farm fights is possibly the worst part since we'll just drop a healer; aka me. Hate hate hate having to go dps.
    I completely understand how you feel. I love being able to weave my way through fights, rolling around the room, and punching the boss when there's little to heal. Our position in the raid was as fluid, but we ended up being marked as nothing more than a throughput healer. The problem with being a throughput healer is we're simply worse than Holy Paladin, can't tank heal, and they even have some utility. Druids are in a similar position as us, but they have Stampeding Roar and Tranquility is a decent substitute for Revival if not situationally better. People are a little upset with the current state of the Mistweaver preview because they've basically given us a deficit in terms of function.

    They revised our throughput toolkit, which now allows us to be a seriously strong group healer. However, a lot of the usefulness of a healer in a raid depends on its utility. Disc Priest and their shields, Shamans have so many cooldowns its limiting design space, Holy Paladins are fast and strong throughput healers with a versatility that we lack. A "decent" Druid can probably outheal a "great" Mistweaver in a lot of situations, and even if that's not true Druids have better healing cooldown's and better utility than us. Blizzard removed our only utility, blatantly saying it didn't really work, but didn't give us anything in return. I'm not going to argue what's utility or not, but if everyone has their own version of Revival, the only contender is Life Cocoon which is a joke. They give us group healing and then leave us hanging. People are a little upset because it's likely going live that Fistweaving is gone, as well as our melee status, but we're really just simpler Druids now.

  13. #13
    I think the spell 'Fel Rush' says a lot for how much more I feel Demonhunters are going to get compared to Monks. Lets look at a few things here:

    Fel Rush - 10 Second CD
    • 2 Charges
    • Can be used mid-air
    • Does multi-target damage
    • Half the cooldown of Roll
    • Generates Resources + Dmg increase (Talent)


    Roll - 20 Second CD
    • 2 Charges
    • Requires talents for anything else, such as +1 Charge, 5sec CD reduction / 25% movement speed briefly.


    Complete bullshit to me, it's flat out better in every single possible way. Roll, a stable of the monk kit, is pitiful compared to Fel Rush.
    Last edited by Celede; 2015-11-26 at 04:06 AM.

  14. #14
    From seeing the PvP and PvE talent trees
    it seems like WW monk is going to be more prevalent in PvP now

    Because as long as SEF stays as a base skill and not a talent, monks in PvE will be only good against niche bosses, while a rogue can be useful for every fight.
    Not to mention, WW has no raid utility.

    So from a mythic raiding guild standpoint, it doesn't seem like monk are worth the investment.
    But the PvP kit seems very powerful, and it seems to me like that's the way monk is going

  15. #15
    The Patient Rait's Avatar
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    tic...tac..tic...tac... 7-8 more months of playing WW in HFC and raiding 3hrs/week, plz beta Blizzard, I don't think I can take it anymore.
    Rerolling back to SP in Legion, RIP Raitank 2013-2016

  16. #16
    This thread is pure gold, should be opened in the general discussion section

  17. #17
    As a Brm never though I'd see the day where I would be jealous of a prot pal.

    The artifact better be good.

  18. #18
    Stood in the Fire Lumiair's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solemnity View Post
    I completely understand how you feel. I love being able to weave my way through fights, rolling around the room, and punching the boss when there's little to heal. Our position in the raid was as fluid, but we ended up being marked as nothing more than a throughput healer. The problem with being a throughput healer is we're simply worse than Holy Paladin, can't tank heal, and they even have some utility. Druids are in a similar position as us, but they have Stampeding Roar and Tranquility is a decent substitute for Revival if not situationally better. People are a little upset with the current state of the Mistweaver preview because they've basically given us a deficit in terms of function.

    They revised our throughput toolkit, which now allows us to be a seriously strong group healer. However, a lot of the usefulness of a healer in a raid depends on its utility. Disc Priest and their shields, Shamans have so many cooldowns its limiting design space, Holy Paladins are fast and strong throughput healers with a versatility that we lack. A "decent" Druid can probably outheal a "great" Mistweaver in a lot of situations, and even if that's not true Druids have better healing cooldown's and better utility than us. Blizzard removed our only utility, blatantly saying it didn't really work, but didn't give us anything in return. I'm not going to argue what's utility or not, but if everyone has their own version of Revival, the only contender is Life Cocoon which is a joke. They give us group healing and then leave us hanging. People are a little upset because it's likely going live that Fistweaving is gone, as well as our melee status, but we're really just simpler Druids now.
    #Preachitsister

    The current spellbook we've been shown wouldn't feel so ominous if it weren't for the fact that we've seen all too well how blatantly clueless they are with the MW design as a whole. Some ideas were so great! But they became so worried about us "cherry picking" and later having infinite mana that slowly they broke and bastardized it all. Muscle Memory being the best example, a fix to our infinite mana that really just came with the legendary meta gem cause lolJabTPJabTP. I thought MM was great though, purely because it gave us such powerful AoE damage; a nice niche in comparison to our single target damage that a Disc Priest could just as easily do.
    And now here we are, another xpac later, with a lot of the same problems because of clueless decisions about how to fix things. And instead of doing the logical decision of ACTUALLY fixing things we're just gonna get retconned into a generic healer. The worst part is I'll either keep playing it but resent the changes or just quit all together because too much has gone into poor Lumi to switch classes. /endrant

    BTW Solemnity, where is that picture you use from? Its been bugging me that I cant place it cause it's familiar but...not.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiair View Post
    #Preachitsister

    The current spellbook we've been shown wouldn't feel so ominous if it weren't for the fact that we've seen all too well how blatantly clueless they are with the MW design as a whole. Some ideas were so great! But they became so worried about us "cherry picking" and later having infinite mana that slowly they broke and bastardized it all. Muscle Memory being the best example, a fix to our infinite mana that really just came with the legendary meta gem cause lolJabTPJabTP. I thought MM was great though, purely because it gave us such powerful AoE damage; a nice niche in comparison to our single target damage that a Disc Priest could just as easily do.
    And now here we are, another xpac later, with a lot of the same problems because of clueless decisions about how to fix things. And instead of doing the logical decision of ACTUALLY fixing things we're just gonna get retconned into a generic healer. The worst part is I'll either keep playing it but resent the changes or just quit all together because too much has gone into poor Lumi to switch classes. /endrant

    BTW Solemnity, where is that picture you use from? Its been bugging me that I cant place it cause it's familiar but...not.
    The thing is that there are two play styles that were born with MW, one where people wanted to play it traditionally, and one that liked the FW style.

    My issues with the FW style was that it didn't feel battle healer enough, it felt in many cases like a gimped dps class. They're trying to do something with Disc that should have been with MW from day one, active in both our damage and our healing abilities. But I look at the caster MW more like a Taichi master sort of healer, I love my casting animations and mobility and stuff, Monk feels fun to play whether I'm playing normally in WoD or FWing in 5mans and out-dpsing the dps.

    Honestly eminence healing should just be a 4th spec at this point, it needs to be, we're having the same exact issues as Feral/Guardian, 1 spec trying to do two different things and neither of them very well.

    The problems I had with MW aren't being exactly fixed in Legion though I love a lot of the ideas presented, like the new ReM and Effuse. I don't like that we're losing our SooM functionality though. Ultimately playing a MW is fun but your healing is so uncontrollable you don't feel powerful until you're at the end of the xpac with oodles of Multistrike and Extend Life shenanigans. But I liked it even in Highmaul even when our healing was so RNG. You had to work so hard for HPS that a Disc priest achieved in spamming one button.

    The changes make our healing more controllable, except for the new SooM. But it also doesn't address our functionality. You would think Holy Paladin/Resto Shaman would have less HPS to make up for the sheer amount of utility they have but they don't, they heal better and have more utility than MW of the same skill level. I love playing MW so much, but many changes or lack of attention to core issues in Legion still have yet to be addressed. And I feel that someone will make a huge blog post about the crippling holes in the spec for two expansions running, then we'll get a half baked reply but nothing will be fixed in the end. They'll make some trinket that makes us have acceptable throughput and we'll spend another expansion without the love the class sorely needs.

    I'm a broken record about this but Mistweavers aren't allowed to be cool or good or even the best at anything other healing classes simply are. They are allowed to be the best at what they do. Any point in the history of the class where we've reached above mediocrity we are absolutely obliterated. If Blizzard wants people to play monks give them cool things, let them be cool, let players think "Oh man that looks so awesome". There are so few people who play Mistweavers people still don't know what we even do two expansions running, they just know we're a shit class because there experience with Monks so far has been "Hey monks were OP the first week of this tier but thankfully Blizzard put them in their place"

    People are dying to play Demon Hunters because they look cool and you know they will be amazing at launch. Monks were not allowed to be amazing and then brought into balance, they were pulverized and people rerolled away and there has never been a Monk golden age like there was for DKs and that there will be for DHs. (And the typical response is Hero class! yet Blizzard has reiterated many times they only have heroic beginnings, they are not intended to be better classes.)

  20. #20
    The Patient Solemnity's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lumiair View Post
    BTW Solemnity, where is that picture you use from? Its been bugging me that I cant place it cause it's familiar but...not.
    Mirai Nikki Yuno Gasai. No idea where I got the artwork from.

    Quote Originally Posted by Myta View Post
    I'm a broken record about this but Mistweavers aren't allowed to be cool or good or even the best at anything other healing classes simply are. They are allowed to be the best at what they do. Any point in the history of the class where we've reached above mediocrity we are absolutely obliterated.
    Other healers get upset their place in a raid is being threatened by the new class on the block. You can point out some aspect of a healer in the past couple years that's been overpowered, but Disc Priests have probably taken the cake. We were limited from being able to power creep, but other classes skyrocketed above Monks. I remember at the beginning of the expansion hearing how terrible Monks are in every spec. Brewmaster was terribly squishy, Mistweavers can barely keep Challenge Mode groups alive, and Windwalkers have been lackluster and nerfed off and on the entire expansion. All of my friends still call me the only good Mistweaver they know, we had another in the raid but he couldn't come close to my level of skill. He didn't do much wrong mechanically, he just wasn't fast enough to overtake our other 4 healers. We have to be aggressive to solidify our position in a raid, and I'm deeply worried we're going to be irrelevant for our second expansion in a row.


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