Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst
1
2
3
4
... LastLast
  1. #21
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    Right, so how can you lessen it without hurting the legitimate customers? World of Warcraft could make it a hundred times harder for them to sell gold, but how would it affect the customers?


    If RMT companies even find ONE crack, they will use that method over and over. It generates money, it will hardly reduce the RMT. Easy money starts many businesses.

    RMT exists in games with less than 1,000 population because it is very profitable. WHy do you think NCSOFT wants a piece of the pie?
    You lessen it by providing your own RMT that is more expensive and completely risk free.
    A large portion of RMT users would shift to said risk free method, and that would reduce the total 'theft'.
    .. I'm confused as to what your argument is, at this point.

  2. #22
    Quote Originally Posted by Delias View Post
    You lessen it by providing your own RMT that is more expensive and completely risk free.
    A large portion of RMT users would shift to said risk free method, and that would reduce the total 'theft'.
    .. I'm confused as to what your argument is, at this point.
    But that doesn't seem to work on games that have their own cash shop. It is still rampant with RMT spam and people still buy illegally.
    The most important thing to realize is, no matter what you experience you are never alone; no matter what you are struggling through, there is always someone who is more unfortunate.

    It's Ok to Be Takei (Rank 35/ Fractal Level 22)

  3. #23
    Again, find me someone who is saying that it will stop all non-anet RMT ever.
    It will lower the demand for non-legitimate RMT.
    It won't stop it, obviously, because the non-anet RMT will be significantly cheaper
    but it will lower it, as the anet RMT will be 100% risk free.

  4. #24
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    But that doesn't seem to work on games that have their own cash shop. It is still rampant with RMT spam and people still buy illegally.
    And they are banned for doing so. >.>

  5. #25
    Brewmaster Agile Emily's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    England
    Posts
    1,420
    Do you have any stats, by the way?

    Theyre working on cutting down the RMT, but I doubt anyone could ever stamp it out completely. And cutting down on something is better than doing nothing.

  6. #26
    Quote Originally Posted by Agile Emily View Post
    Do you have any stats, by the way?

    Theyre working on cutting down the RMT, but I doubt anyone could ever stamp it out completely. And cutting down on something is better than doing nothing.
    They are not trying to reduce RMT, they are simply trying to control it so that way they profit from it instead of the RMT traders. RMT traders will try to counter it and make the prices tempting, but it won't reduce RMT at all.

    People who do RMT are well aware that it is against the rules, players are reminded several times in their gameplay.

    Players who have bought gold in the apst know how easy it is to get away with and will continue to buy illegally. Other players on the other hand who have never bought gold before will do it legally, because they feel safe.

    Since the game is based around RMT from the very start, there is even more incentive to buy gold... especially when you can get it cheaper.
    The most important thing to realize is, no matter what you experience you are never alone; no matter what you are struggling through, there is always someone who is more unfortunate.

    It's Ok to Be Takei (Rank 35/ Fractal Level 22)

  7. #27
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    Right, so how can you lessen it without hurting the legitimate customers? World of Warcraft could make it a hundred times harder for them to sell gold, but how would it affect the customers?

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    If RMT companies even find ONE crack, they will use that method over and over. It generates money, it will hardly reduce the RMT. Easy money starts many businesses.
    And if the company didn't find that "crack", they're incompetent. They generally have smart people working at these places. Between their internal programs as well as external feedback from people, companies are usually pretty good about shutting down gold sellers. That being said, gold sellers will ALWAYS just get a new account and go right back to it. There's not much you can do about that realistically.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    RMT exists in games with less than 1,000 population because it is very profitable. WHy do you think NCSOFT wants a piece of the pie?
    What? It exists in plenty of other games (EVE Online being one of the most well known) in one form or another. It's not always beneficial to the player, but a system like what EVE uses is great for both developer (they make some extra money) and players (they can conceivably play without paying a penny), partially because it's a closed system (i.e. all gold earned HAS to be earned in-game somehow).

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    Those companies wont be a few dollars cheaper than the normal price... they'll try to sell it for at least 50% less than store price.
    You could buy 100 gems for $1 or 100 gems for 50 cents illegally.[/QUOTE]

    And more often than not, people will use the more convenient, safer method unless the illegal method is VASTLY cheaper. Look at Steam and the effect it's had in Russia, a place where companies said wasn't worth expanding to because of piracy. They offered a safe, convenient, reliable service and succeeded. That's what Anet is doing, it's in direct competition with the illegal gold sellers, offering a better service.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    If they can't get enough revenue, they will simply keep reducing the price until it becomes a demand.
    That's assuming there will be a big enough demand and that they don't have a break point for profitability, which is true in some cases. That being said though, the demand has to be there for them to exist. If the demand is greatly reduced, the number of illegal gold sellers is reduced. This isn't supply side, it's driven by demand.

  8. #28
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    They are not trying to reduce RMT, they are simply trying to control it so that way they profit from it instead of the RMT traders. RMT traders will try to counter it and make the prices tempting, but it won't reduce RMT at all.

    People who do RMT are well aware that it is against the rules, players are reminded several times in their gameplay.

    Players who have bought gold in the apst know how easy it is to get away with and will continue to buy illegally. Other players on the other hand who have never bought gold before will do it legally, because they feel safe.

    Since the game is based around RMT from the very start, there is even more incentive to buy gold... especially when you can get it cheaper.
    People will pay more to be safe.
    I haven't actually bought gold myself (though I am guilty of looking at gold buying websites on occasion. It's tempting, sometimes!)
    and.. why do you think "Middle men" are a thing people are willing to pay for?

  9. #29
    Because of the risk.

    You pay the extra two dollars for a 100% guarantee you won't be banned.

    I'd take it.

  10. #30
    The Lightbringer Durzlla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Kansas
    Posts
    3,650
    I woulnt even think of buyin gold illegally if it wasn't more then a $40 difference in the prices, I'd rather pay more an not have my account which I spend just about all my precious free time in banned. And if there's a $40 difference between the legal and illegal system there's something wrong with the price of gold lol.
    Quote Originally Posted by draykorinee View Post
    Youre in the mmo forums and you find mmos boring, Im heading on over to the twilight forums to add my unecessary and shallow 2 cents.

  11. #31
    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeWurrum View Post
    Stop? No.

    Reduce? Yes.
    100% this. Also while a game like Diablo 3 will allow you to take real currency out of the game, GW2 will not. Both are effective at reducing the attractiveness and, more importantly, profitability of botting, but the additional limits on GW2's RMT will make it a slightly more effective deterrent.

    To reiterate what others have said, the botters and account hackers are forced to sell below the established market value for gold to make up for the risk. I think the mindset of most players would be "why risk it to save a buck?" which kills their market.
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    They are not trying to reduce RMT, they are simply trying to control it so that way they profit from it instead of the RMT traders.
    No, that is more of what Blizzard's approach is: "come at me bro, you wanna bot and sell gold/items? We're taking your entire profit margin, GG UMAD?" ANet is removing the incentive altogether.
    Since the game is based around RMT from the very start, there is even more incentive to buy gold... especially when you can get it cheaper.
    That is an absolutely ludicrous and baseless comment that doesn't even deserve a response.
    Last edited by Drakhar; 2012-03-20 at 07:49 PM.

  12. #32
    Warchief godofslack's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Location
    The Great White North
    Posts
    2,216
    It's just like iTunes, iTunes didn't kill music pirating but, fewer people do it because it's simply legal and a lot easier. I'd rather buy a song on iTunes than pirate it, buy a game on Steam, order a movie on Netflix etc. Most people won't use it because of that.

  13. #33
    No, that is more of what Blizzard's approach is: "come at me bro, you wanna bot and sell gold/items? We're taking your entire profit margin, GG UMAD?" ANet is removing the incentive altogether
    If you think that Arenanet had no intentions of simply allowing you to buy gold for cash and they're only reducing RMT... then they would have said they are going to be a lot more serious on bans. INstead, they decided to allow you to buy gold from the store, where they get more profit.
    The most important thing to realize is, no matter what you experience you are never alone; no matter what you are struggling through, there is always someone who is more unfortunate.

    It's Ok to Be Takei (Rank 35/ Fractal Level 22)

  14. #34
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    I've noticed from both ArenaNet and players that they assume if they sell gold in a controlled market they are able to stop illegal RMT. I don't see how that is possible, considering all the RMT traders have to do is make it more profitable to buy from their website than ingame.


    As expected, you where able to buy gems and trade them for gold or other items; that's not a problem at all to me. Guild Wars has always been completely cosmetic, there's nothing to gain other than looks when it comes to gold.


    But to say they're doing it to control the RMT market from illegal activities is an excuse.

    I have played free to play games before, it has never stopped bots or RMT. It has always been more bang for your buck to buy from the illegal traders than to buy from the company.
    First off, nobody has made the claim it will stop it all together. It will however reduce it.

    Also, an important point to make that people keep forgetting is it benefits Anet to actually ban these people. Lets look at two examples. GW2 vs WoW. In WoW, Blizz does NOT want to ban people for buying gold because then they lose $15 a month from that account. In GW2 however since there is no monthly fee and money is made off the box sale itself they have already earned the maximum amount of revenue from that sale and if they do ban that person may buy a new account which results in another X dollars. Now technically speaking in WoW someone may buy a new box as well but the difference is that Anet does not lose anything by banning straight up, they have already made their money. Blizz loses $15 a month every month for as long as the customer plays so it makes sense for them to NOT ban players. Anet does not have this incentive and so will be more likely to ban people buying gold illegally.

    This free to ban policy (which I assume they will utilize) along with selling gold legally will in my opinion greatly reduce the amount of illegal gold coming in. Either way though, it doesn't affect Anet in the long run because most of their money will come from the store or from selling the box. With the store, the only place you can buy gems are from Anet itself (scammers can't make them) so even if I buy gold from a farmer and use it to buy a gem, Anet still gets it's maximum revenue from the gem. Sure /I/ may get the gem cheaper because I bought gold for cheaper but Anet has still sold the gem at it's retail value so they don't lose anything.

    So basically Anet will get their money regardless of if gold sellers exist or don't. It also does not harm anyone and even helps Anet if the do ban gold sellers/buyers as they are not losing anything by not doing it. Seems like a win/win for the legitimate player and Anet.

  15. #35
    The Insane DrakeWurrum's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    Isle of Faces
    Posts
    15,040
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    If you think that Arenanet had no intentions of simply allowing you to buy gold for cash and they're only reducing RMT... then they would have said they are going to be a lot more serious on bans. INstead, they decided to allow you to buy gold from the store, where they get more profit.
    You don't get to buy gold from the store. You get to buy gems from the store, which can only be used to buy items from the cash shop, and which can't be sold back to ANet for cash.

    You can trade gold to get gems through an NPC... but you can only trade gems to get gold from other players.

    Edit: Now you're going to respond with "BUT THEN ANET IS THE ONE DOING THE REAL MONEY TRADING THAT'S BAD THAT'S HORRIBLE AND DECEITFUL AND EVIL!"
    No. It's not.
    ANet won't try to hack your account. ANet already owns your account, and is the one who gave it to you.
    ANet won't use that money to buy more gold to sell to more players. They'll use that money to make the game better.
    Last edited by DrakeWurrum; 2012-03-20 at 08:13 PM.
    I hope you haven't forgotten my role in this little story. I'm the leading man. You know what they say about the leading man? He never dies.

    If you give in to your impulses in this world, the price is that it changes your personality in the real world. The player and character are one and the same.

  16. #36
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    They are not trying to reduce RMT, they are simply trying to control it so that way they profit from it instead of the RMT traders. RMT traders will try to counter it and make the prices tempting, but it won't reduce RMT at all.

    People who do RMT are well aware that it is against the rules, players are reminded several times in their gameplay.

    Players who have bought gold in the apst know how easy it is to get away with and will continue to buy illegally. Other players on the other hand who have never bought gold before will do it legally, because they feel safe.

    Since the game is based around RMT from the very start, there is even more incentive to buy gold... especially when you can get it cheaper.

    More incentive to buy gold? I know swtor doesn't have an rmt but I played on day 1 and what the gold sellers were charging for it was insanely priced; I would never buy it but the amount charged was ridiculous. I really expect gold selling in GW to be in a painful way until the bots get max level or can hack really well.

  17. #37
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    If you think that Arenanet had no intentions of simply allowing you to buy gold for cash and they're only reducing RMT... then they would have said they are going to be a lot more serious on bans. INstead, they decided to allow you to buy gold from the store, where they get more profit.
    There is absolutely no evidence that they are planning to suddenly ease up on bans. If anything their track record with GW1 shows they take botting and ToS-breaking RMT very seriously, and are in fact less lenient than Blizzard. And why not? Blizzard loses monthly income when they issue bans, ArenaNet will not. Now you're just getting into conspiracy theory territory.
    Last edited by Drakhar; 2012-03-20 at 08:19 PM.

  18. #38
    Quote Originally Posted by Drakhar View Post
    There is absolutely no evidence that they are planning to suddenly ease up on bans. If anything their track record with GW1 shows they take botting and ToS-breaking RMT very seriously, and are in fact less lenient than Blizzard. And why not? Blizzard loses monthly income when they issue bans, ArenaNet will not. Now you're just getting into conspiracy theory territory.
    People are comprehending me wrong.


    I simply stated that if you think ArenaNet decided to combat RMT by providing their own RMT with the intentions of reducing RMT for hacks, etc.. you are wrong.

    If that was the case, they would have simply stated they are going to be a lot more harsh on bans.

    Instead, they want a piece of the profit.
    The most important thing to realize is, no matter what you experience you are never alone; no matter what you are struggling through, there is always someone who is more unfortunate.

    It's Ok to Be Takei (Rank 35/ Fractal Level 22)

  19. #39
    And what would you do differently if you were in their shoes and you wanted to stop bots/gold sellers? They are not doing this so they can "get a piece of the pie" as you put it. All I see you do is complain yet you don't provide any solutions or alternatives.

    It's a system to minimize gold sellers, no one is expecting it to stop them. As others have said, I would rather pay a little bit more for something safe and secure than save a little and risk getting my account banned. Sure there will still be gold sellers, as they will always be around, but this will reduce their business quite a bit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    I simply stated that if you think ArenaNet decided to combat RMT by providing their own RMT with the intentions of reducing RMT for hacks, etc.. you are wrong.
    No, you are. Why is it so hard to understand?

  20. #40
    Quote Originally Posted by Deyadissa View Post
    People are comprehending me wrong.


    I simply stated that if you think ArenaNet decided to combat RMT by providing their own RMT with the intentions of reducing RMT for hacks, etc.. you are wrong.

    If that was the case, they would have simply stated they are going to be a lot more harsh on bans.

    Instead, they want a piece of the profit.
    And it's wrong to make that assumption, because frankly we don't know what the driving factor was. Either way it's win/win, they get more income and they cut down on botters, but to say it's entirely for the purpose of making them a few extra bucks is shortsighted and false.

    When it comes to pretty much ANYTHING in the world, politics, economies, etc., removing the demand is far more effective than trying to prevent the supply. The most direct comparison I can think of right now is illegal drugs. People want them, they're going to get them. Do what you want to try to prevent them from flowing into the country, you'll catch some, hell maybe you'll catch a lot, but if you removed the need for them the problem would disappear entirely. To take this analogy to another level this is often used as an explanation why many drugs should be legalized (and taxed). So allow RMT transactions, moderate it yourself, ???, profit (for you and the players).
    Last edited by Drakhar; 2012-03-20 at 08:46 PM.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •