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  1. #1

    Actually promoting botting?

    So, I read about the microtransaction system. Sure, it's good that I can buy that cash shop store items for gold with just having to play and not pay real cash.
    However, this system will promote opening wallet to save time since the gold price will be high. Instead of a normal grind for a couple of days to get item they increase the grind to months. Say you want a cute looking costume, that will take you a couple of months but there is this epic weapon that will improve your char that also takes some months to get. If you choose the costume you will not progress your char, so you either grind for ages or open your wallet and get item directly. While the rich dude just adding 50 dollars or something get all epics instantly.

    Also, picking up that flower knowing it's 0.001% of the gold needed for the item. Why should not people bot that farming, especially if they dont want to pick flowers all day long and dont want to pay irl cash? Because most of the people dont want to open their real life wallet, but they don't want to gather mats or whatev day in and day out.. especially with limited gametime. So they bot, and I can't see why they shouldn't?

    They make it way easier for people to sell as well. They can make website and say: we sell gems for less than the GW2 cash store, buy from us instead. And they trade in game and it all looks legal, because... well it is.

    If you think it will be otherwise, please inform me. Because right now it looks more like the ultimate paradise for bots and goldsellers or well gemsellers than not.

  2. #2
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tea View Post
    So, I read about the microtransaction system. Sure, it's good that I can buy that cash shop store items for gold with just having to play and not pay real cash.
    However, this system will promote opening wallet to save time since the gold price will be high. Instead of a normal grind for a couple of days to get item they increase the grind to months. Say you want a cute looking costume, that will take you a couple of months but there is this epic weapon that will improve your char that also takes some months to get. If you choose the costume you will not progress your char, so you either grind for ages or open your wallet and get item directly. While the rich dude just adding 50 dollars or something get all epics instantly.

    Also, picking up that flower knowing it's 0.001% of the gold needed for the item. Why should not people bot that farming, especially if they dont want to pick flowers all day long and dont want to pay irl cash? Because most of the people dont want to open their real life wallet, but they don't want to gather mats or whatev day in and day out.. especially with limited gametime. So they bot, and I can't see why they shouldn't?

    They make it way easier for people to sell as well. They can make website and say: we sell gems for less than the GW2 cash store, buy from us instead. And they trade in game and it all looks legal, because... well it is.

    If you think it will be otherwise, please inform me. Because right now it looks more like the ultimate paradise for bots and goldsellers or well gemsellers than not.
    Buying gems from anyone other than arenanet will be illegal. Why would anyone risk being banned/hacked just to save a tiny bit of money? Sure, some people will buy gold from these websites, but I think the majority of players will have enough respect for the developers that they will just go straight to the cash shop to buy gems.
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

  3. #3
    Mechagnome Earthshockaz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jvbastel View Post
    Buying gems from anyone other than arenanet will be illegal. Why would anyone risk being banned/hacked just to save a tiny bit of money? Sure, some people will buy gold from these websites, but I think the majority of players will have enough respect for the developers that they will just go straight to the cash shop to buy gems.
    Actually no, arena net said you can earn in game gold to buy gems off another person in game.

    So yes, this will probably promote people to bot and people who want to just spend money to buy gems to sell for more in game gold.

  4. #4
    Mechagnome
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    But, if people bot and get caught they will hopefully get at least suspended. Hopefully a closed account.

  5. #5
    1) Anyone hoarding gems and them sending them out en masse will be banned.
    2) Selling fake gems will be tracked quickly. There was a case in GW1 where is was possible to duplicate a valuable item (I can't remember the details). Arenanet tracked these quickly and anyone who was found to be making too many of them was banned. These guys are good. These fake gems will be found out quickly.
    3) as evidenced from point 2, they can track things well...gems will probably have a tag or something. It's not hard. Botters will be screwed imo.

    As for gold being v expensive...we don't know how the economy is balanced. But, Arenanet will NOT create a situation where it is better to buy gems than to farm gold...other than those who are investing money over time.
    Gold prices will be kept in check to actually stop this. While they want to make money, they don't want watchdogs breathing down their necks.

  6. #6
    It's compelling to see how people are missing the most important thing in discussions about bots: game mechanics. But I guess people who can't program are like that :/.

    Before there was access to AH through Blizz's site I've created a small bot for myself who would log in, check AH prices, get mail and send me the status of things through email. I've later added price searching etc. It was dead easy to do simply because how WoW's servers are communicating with the client. That's also the reason how many bots there is out there who can fish, level and farm.

    While I can foresee bots being designed for GW2, they will be almost only exclusive to marketplace related activities. Why? Let's just ignore for a moment hundreds of ways how Anet can make lives of Bots developers miserable by adjusting netcode. Let's concentrate on things we have some idea about: combat system and gameplay.

    We know that characters get scaled down in lower level area, that means potential bots can't go to area 20-30 and kill and then loot everything while farting. Another thing is that combat system is reactive. It requires dynamic player's input, not just following some specific rotation - you don't dodge -> you will die before you will kill the mob. Considering that most (if not all) materials that are worth farming will be located in high level zones like Orr etc, your chances to kill a mob without proper positioning and dodging are zero to none. So if you decide to write a bot who would go to Orr and kill mobs you are in deep sh**. Without going in to technical stuff: it may not be feasible to create such a program - or it may simply never be perfected.

    Now gold farmers are a different beast...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    But, if people bot and get caught they will hopefully get at least suspended. Hopefully a closed account.
    Yes, but it seems like most games have problems in doing this. I could also guess that there might be plenty of them on every server... and you need to verify botting and not ordinary gathering. Also, no competition on mining and herb nodes will make botting very profitable for gold, unless they make prices so low that it ends up like in wow where gathering is useless cause you can buy them for next to nothing from the AH. Then only thing for non-botting players will be crafting professions buying the cheap mats that will make that market hard to compete on, leaving even less options for people to get their golds on. And this is also promoting the selling of gem items that aren't crafted, that you either buy from cash shop and sell for gold or rare drops that you sell for gems or tooons of gold (gold that is hard to get).

  8. #8
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzjhath View Post
    But, if people bot and get caught they will hopefully get at least suspended. Hopefully a closed account.
    If GW1 is any indication you won't want to bot in GW2. ANET does not punish botting with suspension. They already got your money, so they will ban you. There are some funny videos on youtube ... guy spamming selling ectos for real money, gets reported and momentarily reaper appears and shuts him forever. Or guys verbally abusing others in GvG ... gets banned in the middle of the fight

    My part in this story has been decided. And I will play it well.

  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    If GW1 is any indication you won't want to bot in GW2. ANET does not punish botting with suspension. They already got your money, so they will ban you. There are some funny videos on youtube ... guy spamming selling ectos for real money, gets reported and momentarily reaper appears and shuts him forever. Or guys verbally abusing others in GvG ... gets banned in the middle of the fight
    Hehe well, I understand that it's rather fast solved with people shouting out in chat what they are doing. Most people are smarter than that and keeping it quiet. Like herbs and ore being obviously botted by many in wow, seeing amount and prices on AH. But it's rare to see in chat: Hey, I'm undergroundbotting in Uldum, jiiihayyy!
    Especially in GW2 as a player it wont be too easy to spot as well, since you dont fight for nodes, everyone can pick everything. It's paradise for gathering bots and well consequences I posted above.

  10. #10
    Herald of the Titans zcks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Creepjack View Post
    While I can foresee bots being designed for GW2, they will be almost only exclusive to marketplace related activities. Why? Let's just ignore for a moment hundreds of ways how Anet can make lives of Bots developers miserable by adjusting netcode. Let's concentrate on things we have some idea about: combat system and gameplay.

    We know that characters get scaled down in lower level area, that means potential bots can't go to area 20-30 and kill and then loot everything while farting. Another thing is that combat system is reactive. It requires dynamic player's input, not just following some specific rotation - you don't dodge -> you will die before you will kill the mob. Considering that most (if not all) materials that are worth farming will be located in high level zones like Orr etc, your chances to kill a mob without proper positioning and dodging are zero to none. So if you decide to write a bot who would go to Orr and kill mobs you are in deep sh**. Without going in to technical stuff: it may not be feasible to create such a program - or it may simply never be perfected.
    This ^ exactly.

    Bots will not work simply because of the scaling down & the fact that you need to know when to dodge or otherwise avoid shit.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-21 at 04:44 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Repefe View Post
    If GW1 is any indication you won't want to bot in GW2. ANET does not punish botting with suspension. They already got your money, so they will ban you. There are some funny videos on youtube ... guy spamming selling ectos for real money, gets reported and momentarily reaper appears and shuts him forever. Or guys verbally abusing others in GvG ... gets banned in the middle of the fight
    This ^ as well. Arena.net has a very solid history of handling their shit when it comes to abusive people, bots etc...

    That being said I do have worries about the companies that hack accounts then sell everything off of them to get gold/etc that they can sell.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-21 at 04:46 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Tea View Post
    Especially in GW2 as a player it wont be too easy to spot as well, since you dont fight for nodes, everyone can pick everything. It's paradise for gathering bots and well consequences I posted above.
    While you won't have to fight other players for nodes you will have to fight mobs.

    And as I said above fighting mobs is going to be a bitch for programmers to get bots to do & can easily be solved by Arena.net in any number of ways.
    The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
    1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
    2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
    3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by zcks View Post
    This ^ exactly.

    Bots will not work simply because of the scaling down & the fact that you need to know when to dodge or otherwise avoid shit.
    It works in wow with underground bots, and watching beta testing you could get away rather ok with just one button spam so any mob close to a nod should be easy to deal with.. especially if they keep nodes close to outside of the map so it's just walk around everything and gather. Gathering is also what probably will be most effective to bot since no competition on nodes you can always ensure a certain amount of mats/hours.

  12. #12
    Quote Originally Posted by Tea View Post
    It works in wow with underground bots, and watching beta testing you could get away rather ok with just one button spam so any mob close to a nod should be easy to deal with.. especially if they keep nodes close to outside of the map so it's just walk around everything and gather. Gathering is also what probably will be most effective to bot since no competition on nodes you can always ensure a certain amount of mats/hours.
    Again.. since the best - and most worthwhile nodes/resources will be in high level zones like Orr, you will NOT get away without proper active combat.

  13. #13
    There are bots in wow that can level you from 1-85, kill large groups of mobs, mine, fish, herb, mail, bank, auction, do 5 mans, queue battlegrounds and actually fight. And practically anything else you can think of. If you need a max level char to do it, they'll level a character to max.

    You'd have to be pretty silly to think bots wont exist in GW2

    Edit: Not saying I want them to exist, or that I condone it, but I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to this sort of thing.

  14. #14
    Quote Originally Posted by Vishiz View Post
    There are bots in wow that can level you from 1-85, kill large groups of mobs, mine, fish, herb, mail, bank, auction, do 5 mans, queue battlegrounds and actually fight. And practically anything else you can think of. If you need a max level char to do it, they'll level a character to max.

    You'd have to be pretty silly to think bots wont exist in GW2

    Edit: Not saying I want them to exist, or that I condone it, but I'm pretty skeptical when it comes to this sort of thing.
    God forums are pointless, no one reads anything anyway :/.
    /fu** this

  15. #15
    Yeah, appears its just a money maker for Arena net who cares. Stolen accounts will still be worth real money too. This will do nothing to that.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Creepjack View Post
    . Without going in to technical stuff: it may not be feasible to create such a program - or it may simply never be perfected.

    Now gold farmers are a different beast...
    True , but in the other hand , buying 10 accounts(no sub) , and using multiboxing(each characters do the same stuff at once) + bot program , while pregrammed to avoid bosses areas , sound a little doable , to farm gold
    GW2 : Plzbegentle - Ruins of Surmia EU - Sylvari Engineer
    WoW: Vergin - Deathwing EU - Elf Resto Druid (27/05/05 - 02/04/12 Perma-Banned- Unhappy whinning PvP customer - whos begged from 4.1 to get rid of the RNG of Regrowth ... )
    It seems ppl have the energy to whine for a game , for not beeing exactly like their <<main>> game , while it dont have a SUB , and they dont have the courage to whine at their Game Master for slacking and producing few PvE content ...

  17. #17
    So they bot, and I can't see why they shouldn't?
    There's too much entitlement in MMO's these days, it seems that cheating is preferable to working for your rewards.

    I will quite happily work towards anything I desire. As long as I enjoy playing the game then time spent earning rewards is preferable to spending my cash in the shop (I'll save my cash for character slots etc). I'm not bothered about being a special snowflake who gets an item first so I can tell you now I see no reason why anyone should bot.

  18. #18
    Herald of the Titans Platinus's Avatar
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    Even tho it might be hard. There will ALWAYS be a way for them to make money. They're very clever.

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  19. #19
    Brewmaster
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    In WoW botters actually pay a lot of money to blizzard so there is incentive to not ban them while in GW2 the botters dont contribute anything so its easier to just ban them.

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer jvbastel's Avatar
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    There was a huge problem with botting back in the early days of gw1 (elona's reach and droknar's forge used to be full of bot monks)
    However, they banned a HUGE amount of bots in several waves. I don't know how it is now, but they were pretty strict when it came to botting so I imagine it will be the same in GW2.

    Now in GW2, if you want to buy gold, you have 2 options:

    1- Buy gems directly from arenanet, safely and legally.
    2- Buy gold or gems from a bot, risking a ban/scam.

    If there is ever a problem with the system arenanet implements, it will be because of the playerbase, because the system itself is fair, does not promote botting, and is not pay2win whatsoever.
    Monk, I need a monk!!!

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