Which expansion has best ret paladin?

[Keyur]

Which expansion ret spec you enjoyed most?
Why? Why not?(Optional questions)
What you really want to add or remove from ret spec so you will enjoy better in PvE and PvP perspective?

[UnderworldSoup]

WotLK had the most 'faceroll' one, and I'll admit to enjoying it -- but I prefer what it is now. At the beginning of Cataclysm they were a mess but over the span of the patches I feel Blizzard did a lot to round out the spec and it's damage even if it isn't perfect.

Mists of Pandaria seems to be taking it even further in that direction which makes me smile.

[Deleted]

For me nothing beats TBC before the sunwell Nerf patch.

Cataclysms edge for a weapon, best friend who was playing enhancement shammy at the time... seal of command when it used to be a chance to do an extra attack.

Windfury totem + seal of command hit + melee hit = devestation back when we used to PVP in full tier 6 together ^^

[Keyur]

I started wow in WoLK and I really enjoyed ret spec. Main reason for that I can compete any class with same skill level in most fight. We had unique buffs and and spell so people really wanted ret in their group.
I hate cataclysm ret spec with passion. Main reason for that is introducing holy power mechanic. I mean c'mon we are frontline toe to toe class; we are not like rouge or feral. AoE viable class in WoLK just destroyed in AoE perspective. Even with ultimate skill cap its not possible to compete certain classes. Many iconic spell nerfed or removed in cata.

[Deathgoose]

Cataclysm's Ret had the best design (do some attacks, build up a big weapon attack, use it, repeat), but it seemed a bit too RNG dependent on your abilities. Sometimes you'd have 3+ things lighting up, and sometimes you'd be stuck AA'ing for a second or two, which feels kinda meh.

Prot had a similar design, (do some attacks, build up a big shield slam, use it, repeat), but with the 3s CD on CS/HotR, plus the proc for AS, you were far less likely to be stuck with all of your stuff on CD. Possible, unlike the 69 rotation from Wrath, but far less likely.

As to Vanilla Ret? Other than people that would heal in Ret spec to get Kings as their 31 pt talent and still 20 points of goodies in Holy, and it was a true Hybrid, I don't know who would have preferred that.

BC Ret? Eww. I remember that as being an OOM-adin.

[Torvera]

Ret Paladin during the entirety of ICC:

Seal of Command was a cleave
tier bonus of resetting Divine Storm leading to long strings of spamming DS, which was amazing even for single target
Legendary

and for the entire expansion the First Come First Serve rotation was my favorite of any class. I was very sad when they changed to the Cata style paladin and switched to my rogue at the start of FL because of it.*

[Keyur]

Ret Paladin during the entirety of ICC:

Seal of Command was a cleave
tier bonus of resetting Divine Storm leading to long strings of spamming DS, which was amazing even for single target
Legendary

and for the entire expansion the First Come First Serve rotation was my favorite of any class. I was very sad when they changed to the Cata style paladin and switched to my rogue at the start of FL because of it.*

Dat tire bonus was best set bonus ever and now seal of command is just meh...

[Deleted]

ret bomb -> 1 shot kazzak

need i say more?

[teebo]

I started wow in WoLK

Many iconic spell nerfed or removed in cata.

sorry but i laughed

If you can't contribute to the thread, please refrain from posting. - Malthanis

[Kitsunami]

Patch 3.0 BC. Our ret paladin went from being the judgement renewal bitch to top damage AND healing for every encounter.

But that's not really what you're after, is it? Probably Cataclysm, holy power was a step in the right direction.

[Deleted]

The Cata ret patch where we out DPS'd everything

[Pancha]

TBC by far. I went from being something no one liked to something that was a must have for each and every encounter. I topped DPS charters, had great raid healing and at the same time had enough of a varied dps rotation to have fun doing it. I could've lost a lot of dps and I would've still loved my Paladin at that time. For my own sake Holy Power and the limitations that and a couple other changes brought killed the joy. I do not feel like playing a Paladin other any other generic melee dps out there. There's nothing special that says "I'm a Paladin. Fear me!" or "I'm a Paladin. Behold my awesome skills of defending the weak!". The Paladin class is not a Paladin anymore. It's a melee dpser that uses mana other than rage. Healing in an encounter? Not even remotely possible. I do not like it. That's my opinion, and I know many would disagree, but that's how it is for me.

I haven't raided with my Paladin in Cataclysm due to above reasons and a couple others, but what I've done so far with it doesn't change my mind.

So. What I'm going to say is that I loved TBC as a Paladin, and loved the end of Vanilla. Not because I was OP etc., but because I felt like I was playing a Paladin. A Holy Warrior. I even absolutely LOVED how the Paladin actually was in most of Vanilla, where I had to heal/decurse 50% of the time in raids/dungeons. It gave the class a new aspect others didn't have except other hybrids (Druid/Shaman). I did not excel at the DPS charts nor did I outheal anyone, but I had the chance to change gaming approach in the middle of a boss fight for instance. Healer died? No worries! I can help off-healing while the battleress is being cast. This was normal procedure for a Paladin. That's what I loved.

I really do not care about the DPS as a matter of fact. I do on the other hand care about the flexibility and the uniqueness. It's gone now and so is the fun for me. This is why I HATE the Paladin at it's current state. Should Paladins be DPS viable in raids/dungeons? Sure, but not on par with pure classes. Should they bring something unique to the raid? Yes! Are they bringing anything special at all in it's current state? No. This is the problem I have with it.

A Paladin, or a hybrid class in general, should have the flexibility other pure classes do not have. Loosing DPS in the process (by pushing them further down the charts) is something I would accept.

As I have said earlier, I do not raid anymore as a Paladin, nor intend on doing so at it's current state. So where Paladins actually are on the DPS charts is blank for my own sake.

Note that this is MY opinion. Have your own, but refrain from flaming. Do on the other hand quote and clearly state your opinion on the matter and why I would be wrong or whatever. But please, do not respond in all caps starting a flame war. Keep it civil.

[wordup]

TBC by far. I went from being something no one liked to something that was a must have for each and every encounter. I topped DPS charters, had great raid healing and at the same time had enough of a varied dps rotation to have fun doing it. I could've lost a lot of dps and I would've still loved my Paladin at that time. For my own sake Holy Power and the limitations that and a couple other changes brought killed the joy. I do not feel like playing a Paladin other any other generic melee dps out there. There's nothing special that says "I'm a Paladin. Fear me!" or "I'm a Paladin. Behold my awesome skills of defending the weak!". The Paladin class is not a Paladin anymore. It's a melee dpser that uses mana other than rage. Healing in an encounter? Not even remotely possible. I do not like it. That's my opinion, and I know many would disagree, but that's how it is for me.

I haven't raided with my Paladin in Cataclysm due to above reasons and a couple others, but what I've done so far with it doesn't change my mind.

So. What I'm going to say is that I loved TBC as a Paladin, and loved the end of Vanilla. Not because I was OP etc., but because I felt like I was playing a Paladin. A Holy Warrior. I even absolutely LOVED how the Paladin actually was in most of Vanilla, where I had to heal/decurse 50% of the time in raids/dungeons. It gave the class a new aspect others didn't have except other hybrids (Druid/Shaman). I did not excel at the DPS charts nor did I outheal anyone, but I had the chance to change gaming approach in the middle of a boss fight for instance. Healer died? No worries! I can help off-healing while the battleress is being cast. This was normal procedure for a Paladin. That's what I loved.

I really do not care about the DPS as a matter of fact. I do on the other hand care about the flexibility and the uniqueness. It's gone now and so is the fun for me. This is why I HATE the Paladin at it's current state. Should Paladins be DPS viable in raids/dungeons? Sure, but not on par with pure classes. Should they bring something unique to the raid? Yes! Are they bringing anything special at all in it's current state? No. This is the problem I have with it.

A Paladin, or a hybrid class in general, should have the flexibility other pure classes do not have. Loosing DPS in the process (by pushing them further down the charts) is something I would accept.

As I have said earlier, I do not raid anymore as a Paladin, nor intend on doing so at it's current state. So where Paladins actually are on the DPS charts is blank for my own sake.

Note that this is MY opinion. Have your own, but refrain from flaming. Do on the other hand quote and clearly state your opinion on the matter and why I would be wrong or whatever. But please, do not respond in all caps starting a flame war. Keep it civil.

This is out and out hyperbole.

I played ret in TBC, and the rotation was so mind numbingly dull. You were not a required class for every raid encounter, you provided a marginal DPS increase on stand-still encounters like gorefiend or brutallus, but on say m'uru, kil'jaeden, and 80% of BT, it was not strong. Their clunky mana design, and the need to seal-twist to get higher DPS for horde made them awkward to play and even more of a hassle to find a spot for in an expansion were ranged was king and they were noticeably the weakest melee.

[Kheng]

For a balance of good mechanics and DPS would have to be Cataclysm.

Vanilla: Ret didn't exist.
TBC: Ret DPS wasn't all that fantastic and neither were the mechanics
WotLK: Ret DPS was good (in ICC at least) but mechanics were lousy.
Cata: Competetive DPS and good mechanics, a little more RNG reliant than I'd prefer but still the best mechanics we've had thus far.
Mists is shaping up to be good. I'll proceed with cautious optimism.

[Lothaeryn]

As little as I played of the BC model of ret, I liked it quite a bit. the concept of seal breaking was cool to me, it felt more engaging than more modern versions of retribution and didnt feel like i was doing shit to the enemy, when you judged someone, it felt like there was weight to it, and I liked that idea behind it.

While I also love Wrath's model, it felt a bit too easy at certain points, but as much as people bitch about it being OP, it wasn't with the spec limitations of the time (no snare, and ffs NO INTERRUPT, fuckin pissed me off seeing healers in PvP).

Overall, I wish there was a combination of the BC seal system and the wrath model for DPS, it probably would feel "right" compared to this god awful Holy Power system. Judgement being my finisher felt alot better than a Glorified crusader strike that is Templar's Verdict.

[Kheng]

This is out and out hyperbole.

I played ret in TBC, and the rotation was so mind numbingly dull. You were not a required class for every raid encounter, you provided a marginal DPS increase on stand-still encounters like gorefiend or brutallus, but on say m'uru, kil'jaeden, and 80% of BT, it was not strong. Their clunky mana design, and the need to seal-twist to get higher DPS for horde made them awkward to play and even more of a hassle to find a spot for in an expansion were ranged was king and they were noticeably the weakest melee.

Exactly. Ret was too reliant on circumstances that you couldn't guarantee to even be average DPS.

[Shiny212]

TBC was THE most fun time to be ret. Miss the days when you USED your seals and they werent just a buff.

[Kheng]

Overall, I wish there was a combination of the BC seal system and the wrath model for DPS, it probably would feel "right" compared to this god awful Holy Power system. Judgement being my finisher felt alot better than a Glorified crusader strike that is Templar's Verdict.

You want to constantly swap seals and mash divine storm?

[Soisoisoi]

Seal of Blood, 'nuff said?

[Lothaeryn]

You want to constantly swap seals and mash divine storm?

Swapping seals that actually did something, I know how bad seal swapping was in BC, it was cumbersome to say the least to judge crusader then Whatever else seal, but it didnt feel like my judgement was just another button I pushed because I could.

If it were a combination, the damage output of seal breaking would have to be substantially higher, not the same as it was. I probably would just incorporate Crusader into the judgement itself, and allowed for seals to last for a minute rather than 30 seconds, which was highly annoying.

EDIT: At least it wouldnt be like it is currently, where seals are just a buff you put on for the sake of being able to use judgement, at this point in the game idk why they even have timers on them, mineaswell be permanent until you die or replace it with another seal.