1. #2221
    will zhen sphere be worth to take over chi wave in 5.2? considering the changes

  2. #2222
    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    will zhen sphere be worth to take over chi wave in 5.2? considering the changes
    Possibly! People are saying it could be a nice emergency cooldown, to help you when you get low on HP. The main issue with Zen Sphere in 5.0/5.1 is the extremely prohibitive Chi cost, so since that's gone it could be quite nice. It's worth testing and seeing how it is for you, though.

    Personally I quite like being able to throw Chi Waves on the raid, for those who need the heals. But y'know, choose on a per-boss basis.

  3. #2223
    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    will zhen sphere be worth to take over chi wave in 5.2? considering the changes
    Sounds good on paper, but from doing quite some raid testing with it, the healing done done is way to low, was tanking 1 boss together with another brewmaster, he used chi wave. when i had healed 700k, he had healed over 3 mil. and the "emergency" thing, you dont really notice it. (imho)

  4. #2224
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imoom View Post
    Sounds good on paper, but from doing quite some raid testing with it, the healing done done is way to low, was tanking 1 boss together with another brewmaster, he used chi wave. when i had healed 700k, he had healed over 3 mil. and the "emergency" thing, you dont really notice it. (imho)
    Have you compared 10m vs 25m though? During H Lei Shi "Get Away" I was pushing out a lot of green #'s on the raid and nothing really better to use Chi on that helps vs spray until protectors spawn.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  5. #2225
    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    will zhen sphere be worth to take over chi wave in 5.2? considering the changes
    Buffing bad ability only slightly still makes it bad

    It's a really cool ability and I wish BM monks could use it but it's terrible compared to Chi wave in every way, even in 5.2. At least that is what my PTR testing tells me.
    Monk tank in <Liquicity>, a Swedish 10m guild on Neptulon-EU 16/16 HC

  6. #2226
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Have you compared 10m vs 25m though? During H Lei Shi "Get Away" I was pushing out a lot of green #'s on the raid and nothing really better to use Chi on that helps vs spray until protectors spawn.
    No i have not, im a 10man raider myself, the detonation should ofc heal for little more in 25man, but you can not really "plan" to reach 35% hp to help raidheal when needed, and atleast the way i used zen sphere, was to not use on CD, but instead try to keep 100% uptime of the hot on myself.
    The only way (i believe) to compare it to chi wave, and say that it actually wins, is MAYBE if you only count selfhealing done, (and its reliability), since chi wave can be evil and not jump to you.

  7. #2227
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by imoom View Post
    The only way (i believe) to compare it to chi wave, and say that it actually wins, is MAYBE if you only count selfhealing done, (and its reliability), since chi wave can be evil and not jump to you.
    I think it would be solid in 25m for when you have fights that require stacking or where the raid is taking damage so you can't rely on Chi Wave bouncing back to you while tanking. H Lei Shi I did 3.6 mil with it overall and 11.4% of that was to myself, don't have a personal example where I was using Chi Wave instead.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  8. #2228
    im also confused about haste. ive heard that the more you have the faster stagger ticks, and should i go for hardcap on expertise if it means dipping haste? currently hardcapped on exp with 4.2k haste. if i go for softcap on expertise il have around 6k haste.

    armory if that matters http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...ffrolla/simple
    Last edited by Sunnydee; 2013-02-13 at 06:06 PM.

  9. #2229
    the thing about haste for me is, that it has kinda of diminishing returns. the more haste you have, the more purifying brews you can get, but the more often you purify the amount purified will decrease. so at least for me what makes sense is:

    Get to a point where you're confortable with your haste to keep shuffle up, guard "on CD" and purify often (i usually aim for around 13.66 energy regen with ascencion). then go for either crit or mastery. both work. I'd go crit now specially with the new tier bonus coming up.

    About hit and exp as a lot of people said on this thread already is really up to you

  10. #2230
    hmm im on 13.94regen and feels like i cant keep chi up for purify sometimes:s since rng likes to screw me over on brew it can take ages for me to hit 15 sometimes..

  11. #2231
    you don't need to wait for 15 stacks to use it, the stacks only change duration I usually use it around 9 (the cd on the ability) but sometimes use it with less (sha thrash for instance)

    I like being exp hardcapped, because a bad parry on a keg smash will ruin your shuffle uptime/purify when you need it the most. but only went for exp hardcap recently when i got more gear. I felt i was losing too much of other stats to be exp hard capped
    Last edited by Takerpt; 2013-02-13 at 06:46 PM.

  12. #2232
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    im also confused about haste. ive heard that the more you have the faster stagger ticks, and should i go for hardcap on expertise if it means dipping haste? currently hardcapped on exp with 4.2k haste. if i go for softcap on expertise il have around 6k haste.
    Don't know where you heard that...but it's not accurate. Stagger ticks every 1 second regardless of haste level. Hardcap has also been discussed to death...no real good reason to take it at all.

    ---------- Post added 2013-02-13 at 01:55 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Takerpt View Post
    then go for either crit or mastery. both work.
    No. Don't stack mastery. This was literally just discussed less than a page ago.

  13. #2233
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    im also confused about haste. ive heard that the more you have the faster stagger ticks, and should i go for hardcap on expertise if it means dipping haste? currently hardcapped on exp with 4.2k haste. if i go for softcap on expertise il have around 6k haste.
    I wouldn't want to do H Wind Lord w/ only 4.2k haste but it depends on what you are clearing. Plus the feedback from 5.2 seems to indicate we will need to purify a lot more unless you don't care to sit at Moderate+ stagger often. So might want to prepare to get used to running with more haste now.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  14. #2234
    Quote Originally Posted by Takerpt View Post
    you don't need to wait for 15 stacks to use it, the stacks only change duration I usually use it around 9 (the cd on the ability) but sometimes use it with less (sha thrash for instance)

    I like being exp hardcapped, because a bad parry on a keg smash will ruin your shuffle uptime/purify when you need it the most. but only went for exp hardcap recently when i got more gear. I felt i was losing too much of other stats to be exp hard capped
    I can end some fights with over 2 minutes on my BoK... and I'm at 8% expertise. Keg Smash parries aren't going to be as detrimental as you claim.

    You lose basically 3 seconds from your shuffle uptime each Keg Smash parry (one second for KS to fail, then two to build up the chi). That's a loss of 0.8% uptime on a six minute fight assuming it drops AS SOON as you try and keg smash and it fails... and you don't get that many keg smash parries. To be quite honest with you, it's not going to kill you.
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2013-02-13 at 07:08 PM.

  15. #2235
    Asking if someone can review my Logs and see how I went. Any feedback on my play/character build is appreciated. Only my 2nd time playing Brewmaster in a dungeon/raid setting but looking at getting into tanking alt raids on it.

    I had Power Strikes for every boss but on review I think maybe Ascension would have been better for Wind Lord (solo tanking) because I was having to hit purify every 4-5 seconds and was struggling to maintain Chi.

    Currently stacked all-out haste and I quite like it, not sure if I should be looking into crit or not.

    Logs: http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-p19uc58zg6qiytw0/
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...pjeep/advanced

  16. #2236
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    I can end some fights with over 2 minutes on my BoK... and I'm at 8% expertise. Keg Smash parries aren't going to be as detrimental as you claim.

    You lose basically 3 seconds from your shuffle uptime each Keg Smash parry (one second for KS to fail, then two to build up the chi). That's a loss of 0.8% uptime on a six minute fight assuming it drops AS SOON as you try and keg smash and it fails... and you don't get that many keg smash parries. To be quite honest with you, it's not going to kill you.
    Well I like being exp hard capped, mb because I go with a lot less haste than most of other brewmasters, I was just saying what worked for me. I never end a fight with 2+ mins of BoK but I can keep 95%+ uptime on my shuffle. That is what really matters in the end of the day.

    I'm not a math guy, I reforged and went based on my personal experience for instance I went "full" Mastery from Will Hc to Tsulong HC only changed to crit for Sha because I needed more elusive proc's for Dread Thrash and mastery alone wasn't going to do it. What kill tanks is spike dmg, an avoid tank (crit) is more spiky than mitigation (mastery) tanks, and even though i probably took more dmg overall then a avoid tank I was a lot less likely to die. It worked for me and for my guild. I'm not claiming its the best thing to do, just sharing my experience.

    Tanking overall now more than ever, it's about personal playstyle and performance, and healing interaction. so whatever works for you and your healers It's the best build for you =)

    Anyway, I'm full crit now because of t15 bonus, where the elusive brew will grant mitigation :P (It sounds a bit OP to me the proc but we'll see).

    Armory: http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte...Taker/advanced If you want to check my toon =)
    Last edited by Takerpt; 2013-02-13 at 07:52 PM.

  17. #2237
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takerpt View Post
    Well I like being exp hard capped, mb because I go with a lot less haste than most of other brewmasters, I was just saying what worked for me. I never end a fight with 2+ mins of BoK but I can keep 95%+ uptime on my shuffle. That is what really matters in the end of the day.
    The main point around this argument is dumping the 2500 rating down to 7.5% expertise into haste instead would result in more Chi over the course of the fight and I believe is also a gain in EB stacks. So while I respect/don't argue with the "it works for me" disclaimer the reason you think it works so well isn't really justified by your results as the best option.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  18. #2238
    The EB part is something for some1 good in math to do, since while you get more auto attacks with more haste you also get less parry's with expertise, the chi part it might be true but one thing I rly like of being exp hard capped is knowing that with 3400 haste I'm fine Chi wise, and can dump everything else on crit/mastery. while not being hardcapped It might have a softspot as well but I never tried to find it :P

    but again, I'm not claiming it's the way to go. Just what I like the most

  19. #2239
    Quote Originally Posted by Takerpt View Post
    The EB part is something for some1 good in math to do, since while you get more auto attacks with more haste you also get less parry's with expertise, the chi part it might be true but one thing I rly like of being exp hard capped is knowing that with 3400 haste I'm fine Chi wise, and can dump everything else on crit/mastery. while not being hardcapped It might have a softspot as well but I never tried to find it :P
    Both have been calculated by me as well as others on the forum, so yes, optimally speaking, haste provides more active mitigation than expertise, both in terms of chi per minute and elusive brew stacks.

    I've said it multiple times... expertise is a very personal thing, but you do have to understand that hitting the hard cap is in fact suboptimal. If you know that, and it still works, that's fine, but it's something you need to be cognizant of, and it's something that needs to be said when discussing advice. My initial response to you was mainly because of you saying that a parried Keg Smash will hurt your shuffle uptime, which it really doesn't. I'm trying to keep this an environment with as minimal misinformation as possible and I kinda count that as such, as it's been thrown about SO MUCH over the past couple months and has been proven time and time again to be false.

    Again, nothing wrong with hard capping expertise, as long as you know what you're sacrificing.
    Last edited by The Madgod; 2013-02-13 at 08:10 PM.

  20. #2240
    I understand that and as I said before I really apreciate your effort in the brewmaster comunity, and I didn't saw that math post but I will give it a go as you say. Haven't been in exp soft cap since the ascencion buff, so we'll see how it goes =)

    anyway the bottom line from my posts, Is that people try different things and don't just go blindly after a guide because it's math wise better (like crit vs mastery). The most key thing to tanking as I said before is individual playstyle and good cooperation with healers. I've seen brewmasters with full haste, full crit and full mastery every1 with sha hc down. so we're lucky enough to not have a cookie cutter build. make use of it!

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