1. #661
    Could anyone tell me for how far RJW 'travels in front of you'?

    Is it 30 yards? Or is it 'till the first mob'?

  2. #662
    I do believe it ends after 30 yards if it doesnt hit anything, although im not certain.

  3. #663
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    http://www.wowhead.com/spell=123659
    Range 50000 yards (Anywhere)

    lol that is definitely not the case but found it funny. It has to be at least 30 yards I have to be careful using it in 5 mans as it will pull other trash packs if you aren't careful.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  4. #664
    Quote Originally Posted by seigert View Post
    Could anyone tell me for how far RJW 'travels in front of you'?

    Is it 30 yards? Or is it 'till the first mob'?
    It travels always 30yards...it can get through 100 mobs on its way and it will travel. Its a pretty neat ability that i prefer for 5man.

    On a sidenote: As much as i love my brewmaster but...who else is annoyed from keg smash aggroing neutral mobs? -.-

  5. #665
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    There was a really interesting update on the EJ thread, noting that Gift of the Ox orbs had an increased critical hit chance, which increased the value of expertise (in the sim/calculations), this might lead to expertise not being necessary to hard cap (if you're good with orbs), it might be that crit and haste are superior to expertise after soft cap (soft cap is still obviously really, really good).

    I personally will try out dropping hard expertise cap in favor of stamina for tomorrow's HC attempts (more room for mistakes with a larger health pool when starting heroics), and progressively as my gear gets better start to turn to expertise hard cap, and the haste soft cap (rumored to be around 8500, when you have enough energy to Jab every third second, reducing the value of haste). It also seems that crit will be favored over haste, especially once you get the 2-piece (as crit scales better with Elusive Brew than haste, and Tiger Palm only scales from crit).

    I would like your opinions and thoughts on this, and how you plan on gearing, and if going mastery for certain HC fights might be favorable to other stats (perhaps even going for some parry and dodge to really crank up your avoidance once you pop EB, and reaching nigh untouchable status).

    Also regarding the recent hotfix to the tanking trinket, do you think that it would be valuable to pick up, in contrast to going for the agility trinket, or will that serve me better in the long run? (I assume the agility will be preferred, especially once your gear starts to go up, as you start to have a high enough health pool to allow going away from stamina for HC progress).

  6. #666
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Hmm That's VERY interesting about GoTO Avalya... does make me slightly amused that EJ were shouting at Blizz to fix monks so Expertise wasn't needing Hardcap... and the whole time it was the sim that needed fixing .

    gunna try reforging today, see how I feel with softcap hit/expertise and the rest put into haste>Crit>Mastery.

    I'll probably be picking up the Darkmoon Card now (first time ever, they're usually total trash) 8000 dodge on a 1min CD and 4k stam is a pretty nice trinket, might be worth still picking up the agility one though. With trinkets I always find the best way is to go at it Pokemon style 'Gotta catch em all' it's not uncommon for me to have four or five trinkets in my bag, for differing situations.
    Reading the A song of Ice and Fire series is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere and shoots the puppy, then punches you in the face

  7. #667
    Great read so far, and a ton of great information. But I have to ask for some help. Could someone please post there macro's that they are using. I never had to use them to much, and I feel that having them on the monk would be great. Played a rogue in vanilla wow, and then a tankadin since BC till now. I will say thank you in advance for those of you who are willing to take some time and answer my newbish question. Thanks.

  8. #668
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    On a sidenote: As much as i love my brewmaster but...who else is annoyed from keg smash aggroing neutral mobs? -.-
    Only time it's been an issue was trying to do the achievement in SM where you don't kill any of the hound guys dogs. Being able to do zero cleav'ing sucks pretty bad then. Otherwise I don't really mind the agro'ing of neutral mobs you can usually avoid it if careful with where you pull or fight at.

    Interesting about the new thoughts on stat weights. It's really hard to get the expertise hard cap in 461 gear so I might just stick with soft capping and keeping the extra haste/crit until more info comes along.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  9. #669
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eneroth View Post
    Great read so far, and a ton of great information. But I have to ask for some help. Could someone please post there macro's that they are using. I never had to use them to much, and I feel that having them on the monk would be great. Played a rogue in vanilla wow, and then a tankadin since BC till now. I will say thank you in advance for those of you who are willing to take some time and answer my newbish question. Thanks.
    Depends entirely on what macros you're after, I have a macro for my AOE taunt, think it goes like this;
    #showtooltip
    /target Black Ox Statue
    /cast Provoke
    /targetlasttarget

    Reasoning behind not using /cast [@Black Ox Statue] is that it didn't seem to work, this does the same thing basically, just a bit more clunky writing.
    I have some for saving space that are basically only modifier ones, such as 2 being a Tiger Palm macro that follow;
    #showtooltip
    /cast [mod:alt] Leg Sweep; Tiger Palm

    And so on, I have a taunt macro for mouseover;
    #showtooltip
    /cast [@mouseover,exists,harm] Provoke; Provoke

    Can't think of anything else that really stands out, I might macro the darkmoon trinket (ended up getting it, the tanking one) to my elusive brew, since I press EB when I want dodge, and what better to get than more dodge when you want dodge? Besides, chances are you want to use those two in conjunction anyways.

    Going to try HC modes tomorrow with stamina gemming (480k health unbuffed in Ox stance), and thereafter valuing haste>crit (because I feel that the energy regeneration I got used to is not something I just wanna throw away), which puts me at 22.5% crit, 7.5% hit, 7.5% expertise, 10.6% haste (or so, used to run with 13%ish) and barely any mastery (504 rating to be precise). Will post results of what it felt like on the normal modes we're doing, compared to last (this) week. DPS is definitely going to drop a fair bit.

  10. #670
    Not going to lie on fights like Elegon I am getting TRUCKED compared to the other tanks. This is while keeping an 85% shuffle uptime, Guard off CD and popping my CD's when needed. I feel like pure Haste gemming is gimping my EH. Maybe switching to Stamina/Haste Gems for Heroic 25 Man tonight. I feel like in our current Gear LvL haste just isn't as important as maybe Stamina and Mastery for the start of Heroics any thoughts?

  11. #671
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    I wouldn't rule out needing to stack at least some Stam (and possibly Mastery) if your going into heroics with only a couple weeks worth of gear. DK's would often do the same thing early on in a tier for the EH boost (gemming, trinkets, SSG weapon enchant).

    Trinkets always felt like the best way to do this, the new DMC + the 5man w/ 1200+ stam would give you a bigger boost then any amount of gemming can.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  12. #672
    Quote Originally Posted by towelliee View Post
    Not going to lie on fights like Elegon I am getting TRUCKED compared to the other tanks. This is while keeping an 85% shuffle uptime, Guard off CD and popping my CD's when needed. I feel like pure Haste gemming is gimping my EH. Maybe switching to Stamina/Haste Gems for Heroic 25 Man tonight. I feel like in our current Gear LvL haste just isn't as important as maybe Stamina and Mastery for the start of Heroics any thoughts?
    I don't see this... We cleared normal with a blood DK being the other tank, i was reforged to the 5,100 expertise cap and the 2550 hit cap at the time i was using all heroic gear, the engineering trinket with an agi trinket with the haste proc, with a stamina flask and stamina food due to the magic damage in the fight and i took less damage than the DK on our final kill heres the logs and i was the one picking up all the adds and was hit in the face by a few of them so i should of been well ahead.

    I took a lot of damage on will of the emperor though but that hit the DK hard as well (logs for that too if anyones interested)

    Guess the only way to have an insight would be to ask what your gemming/ reforging/ trinkets were and what class was your off tank? And any logs will help a lot i guess.

    As for the recent update on EJ, i was planning on using a stamina trinket atleast for some heroic fights just to see if it helps a bit more, still not sure about not reaching the expertise cap but i might give it a go now that i got the mastery trinket off of elegon and go into crit a tad more. I'll just have to look through the logs but honestly i think if you really want to maximise your effectiveness then you'd have to reforge/ re-gem and change your gear about nearly every fight and obviously as the guy said it depends hugely on your playstyle.

  13. #673
    One thing to note with DK tanks is that you have to consider their self-healing on top of their damage taken. They're designed to take a lot of damage and then heal it up immediately after.

    For example, in the Will of the Emperor log Nurhlag is linking above, the two were very close on damage taken - but the DK has almost 3x the self-healing.

    The result is that Monks take significantly more healing to stay alive compared to other tanks. You may not notice it as a tank if your healers are strong, but they're working harder to keep you alive than they are for the DK.

    You have to be careful when just saying things are fine because they "feel" fine. It's like a DPS saying "I did 50k dps which feels like a good number to me, I don't see what the problem is" -- when everybody else is doing 100k DPS. You have to compare how you're doing with other tanks to get an accurate picture.

  14. #674
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    Yeah, it might be so, we run DK and Monk, but the DK took up to 30% more damage than me on certain fights (Will, for example), which might be due to me calling for more CDs during the Gas phase, or so, but it still felt like we were getting our faces smashed in without cooldowns (we both dropped really, REALLY quick, and we're both over 470 ilvl) - that was with exp and hit cap, and max haste (about 6k haste rating), so yeah, as I said, will run with stamina and stuff, and see how it feels this week, will post results whenever I can (raids are on wed, thurs and sunday).

  15. #675
    Quote Originally Posted by Shamanberry View Post
    One thing to note with DK tanks is that you have to consider their self-healing on top of their damage taken. They're designed to take a lot of damage and then heal it up immediately after.

    For example, in the Will of the Emperor log Nurhlag is linking above, the two were very close on damage taken - but the DK has almost 3x the self-healing.

    The result is that Monks take significantly more healing to stay alive compared to other tanks. You may not notice it as a tank if your healers are strong, but they're working harder to keep you alive than they are for the DK.

    You have to be careful when just saying things are fine because they "feel" fine. It's like a DPS saying "I did 50k dps which feels like a good number to me, I don't see what the problem is" -- when everybody else is doing 100k DPS. You have to compare how you're doing with other tanks to get an accurate picture.
    Please bare in mind that Will of the Emperor is like blood DK heaven, if played properly you can spam as much death strikes as you can during the 'dodging' phase so you have a huge shield for when he stops. Only thing i could really do was try to get as much elusive brew as i can/ try to build up my shuffle. In the end i got a good routine going and could have elusive brew up for most of the heavy damage phases with a guard and the damage wasn't as bad (guess the healers got into the pattern a bit more) but yeah DKs are like the best tank for this fight. I have to admit i loved this fight so much was actually fun to tank.

    I do agree we sometimes take a lot of damage but i think we'll scale better with gear than other tanks/ when more testing has been done seeing as stat weights have suddenly changed. Not sure if having more stamina/ mastery is the way to go... but only time will tell i guess. Heroics on the other hand will be interesting...

  16. #676
    Anybody feeling (with honesty) that the spec is under-tuned compared to other tanks?

    From the perspective of challenge modes, I am definitely playing dps from now on. Our DK tank is a BEAST compared to me, and I'm pretty sure we've got similar levels of mastery over our specs.

    I hope Blizzard takes a good hard look at tank balance again. It's not in my habit to call for that, just so you know.

  17. #677
    Quote Originally Posted by towelliee View Post
    Not going to lie on fights like Elegon I am getting TRUCKED compared to the other tanks. This is while keeping an 85% shuffle uptime, Guard off CD and popping my CD's when needed. I feel like pure Haste gemming is gimping my EH. Maybe switching to Stamina/Haste Gems for Heroic 25 Man tonight. I feel like in our current Gear LvL haste just isn't as important as maybe Stamina and Mastery for the start of Heroics any thoughts?
    Hey,

    you should have a look in your logs. You will see that a large amount of the damage comes from the Add explosions and his total annihilation at the end. What I did was glyphing Guard and taking diffuse magic. So I put shield up when the add starts exploding and if I wanted i still had a 90% magic reduction in the bakchand if i needed. it.

    With this I had absolutely no problem of dying

    try it.

  18. #678
    Well I am tanking 2 adds on Stone Guard heroic. I got murked tonight big time. Even keeping proper buffs up. I expended our healer CD's 2 minutes in.

    I feel 2 things are happening here

    1 - You gem for Exp/Hit Haste reforge for it etc and gimp your HP to a point where melee attacks even with buffs up from shuffle Purifying brew can't help you.

    2 - Mastery.stamina gemming or agi/stam - haste/stamina but then your haste is low energy regen is sucks

    I am at a loss seeing so many Brewmasters gem/reforce/gear differently that its giving me headaches honestly. lol

  19. #679
    Quote Originally Posted by imbanane View Post
    Hey,

    you should have a look in your logs. You will see that a large amount of the damage comes from the Add explosions and his total annihilation at the end. What I did was glyphing Guard and taking diffuse magic. So I put shield up when the add starts exploding and if I wanted i still had a 90% magic reduction in the bakchand if i needed. it.

    With this I had absolutely no problem of dying

    try it.
    Erm look at the logs i posted, 48.7% of my damage taken is from melee hits.. so you really shouldn't be using glyphed guard, just use zen meditation/ other raid CDs to reduce the magic damage.

  20. #680
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurhlag View Post
    Erm look at the logs i posted, 48.7% of my damage taken is from melee hits.. so you really shouldn't be using glyphed guard, just use zen meditation/ other raid CDs to reduce the magic damage.
    in this 50% damage melee hits from the adds are still in suppose ...

    The boss doesnt hit that hard to be troubling for your healers but if his melee attacks + annihilation which hits in the range of 200k damage come at the same time you are very likely to die .. With glyphed guard I could prepare myself to this dmg burst. Trust me my healers where very happy after i respecced.

    ---------- Post added 2012-10-10 at 09:12 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by towelliee View Post
    Well I am tanking 2 adds on Stone Guard heroic. I got murked tonight big time. Even keeping proper buffs up. I expended our healer CD's 2 minutes in.

    I feel 2 things are happening here

    1 - You gem for Exp/Hit Haste reforge for it etc and gimp your HP to a point where melee attacks even with buffs up from shuffle Purifying brew can't help you.

    2 - Mastery.stamina gemming or agi/stam - haste/stamina but then your haste is low energy regen is sucks

    I am at a loss seeing so many Brewmasters gem/reforce/gear differently that its giving me headaches honestly. lol
    I dont think an avoidance tank is a good option for 2 adds in this encounter since they apply a bleeding debuff which you can't dodge or parry. I'd say a meatshield like a blood dk is the better option here ...
    Last edited by imbanane; 2012-10-10 at 09:13 AM.

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