1. #841
    Regarding vengeance, we raided tonight and I only felt a big difference in vengeance on Spirit Kings (normal 10 man). In the two weeks prior, I was near top damage and top healing, and tonight I was below both healers and almost last on damage.

    Ghostcrawler said it was a bug fix, so I'm assuming if the result is a negative impact on monk tanking they'll fix it sometime. Hopefully. I think we're fine for now, but my experience is limited to 10 man normal modes so ymmv.


    In other news I got the Qiang's polearm tonight! Went ahead and put Dancing Steel on it, pretty awesome.
    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...r/Amp/advanced

  2. #842
    going to hit 90 tonight so befor i reach 90 i wanted to ask about dung rotation and the best way to take low dmg , i read the thread about us taking insane amount of dmg and i am scared tbh i dont want to take more damge then i need to! so hopefully some skilled monk can tell me the good strategys for dungeon farming

  3. #843
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampere View Post
    Ghostcrawler said it was a bug fix, so I'm assuming if the result is a negative impact on monk tanking they'll fix it sometime. Hopefully. I think we're fine for now, but my experience is limited to 10 man normal modes so ymmv.
    I have this feeling they simply had too many dd whine threads about how tanks steal their role *rolls eyes*.
    Because you have so many tanks in your raid right.

    Iam not going to lie the numbers you could put out were insane but i dont see anything wrong with tanks actually doing damage too. Its not like any dps loses it spot for that reason.

    gz for that weap! Iam not lucky with weapons so far.

  4. #844
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    I have this feeling they simply had too many dd whine threads about how tanks steal their role *rolls eyes*.
    Because you have so many tanks in your raid right.

    Iam not going to lie the numbers you could put out were insane but i dont see anything wrong with tanks actually doing damage too. Its not like any dps loses it spot for that reason.

    gz for that weap! Iam not lucky with weapons so far.
    Thanks, I'm jealous of your world boss loot heh

  5. #845
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    I have this feeling they simply had too many dd whine threads about how tanks steal their role *rolls eyes*.
    Because you have so many tanks in your raid right.

    Iam not going to lie the numbers you could put out were insane but i dont see anything wrong with tanks actually doing damage too. Its not like any dps loses it spot for that reason.
    100% agreed

  6. #846
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ampere View Post
    Regarding vengeance, we raided tonight and I only felt a big difference in vengeance on Spirit Kings (normal 10 man). In the two weeks prior, I was near top damage and top healing, and tonight I was below both healers and almost last on damage.[/url]
    Almost every kill I am 2nd or 3rd DPS, even after the "nerf". Course this could mean my guild sucks but BrM damage is great. I've ranked on almost every fight (98.5% on Kings gah!) with total mediocre gear. Loving the class even at my level of play.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  7. #847
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Almost every kill I am 2nd or 3rd DPS, even after the "nerf". Course this could mean my guild sucks but BrM damage is great. I've ranked on almost every fight (98.5% on Kings gah!) with total mediocre gear. Loving the class even at my level of play.
    Whilst topping dps was fun, it's not really essential as a tank, the big problem is the massive hit our survivability has taken as a result. I have only done Will since the hotfix but my damage was about half what it was before, so if that trend continues on other fights, I would be very very worried if I am still sitting 2nd or 3rd dps on anything other than Feng.

  8. #848
    Quote Originally Posted by Valient View Post
    Whilst topping dps was fun, it's not really essential as a tank, the big problem is the massive hit our survivability has taken as a result. I have only done Will since the hotfix but my damage was about half what it was before, so if that trend continues on other fights, I would be very very worried if I am still sitting 2nd or 3rd dps on anything other than Feng.
    What worries me is that with old vengeance BrM was kinda on par with other tanks but i think we all agree vengeance fix hit us the most so i hope blizzard hotfixed the scaling for our selfheal and guard asap.
    I dont really se how they could not think of that and BrM surely didnt do that much better then other tanks to ignore that.

  9. #849
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    What worries me is that with old vengeance BrM was kinda on par with other tanks but i think we all agree vengeance fix hit us the most so i hope blizzard hotfixed the scaling for our selfheal and guard asap.
    I dont really se how they could not think of that and BrM surely didnt do that much better then other tanks to ignore that.
    Precisely. Call this an over reaction but I will be leveling my DK just in case because Blizzard didn't even have the fore thought to warn us about this change and Vengeance in it's bugged form has been live for ages, so I am not banking on them making changes too quickly. I really hope they do because I enjoy playing my monk, but I am not going to leaves things entirely down to Blizzards monk dev team as they have been painfully inactive compared to other classes so far.

  10. #850
    Edit: Doesn't matter what i said but...

    Over at EJ the guy doing the spreadsheet has updated it and mentioned that vengence was reduced by 33% from the tests hes done himself.

    He also said that due to the vengence changes it also de-values the stat weight of exp and hit and crit and haste are now ahead. He didn't give an exact number to hit for expertise and hit (my excel isn't working so i can't use the spreadsheet atm) but he did say that even 7.5% seems too much.

    Expertise and hit still remain the best way to increase dps as before.
    Last edited by Nurhlag; 2012-10-21 at 05:50 PM.

  11. #851
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    Would it be more beneficial to save my Dancing steel mats for 2x One handers or just using it on my Polearm?

  12. #852
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nurhlag View Post
    Edit: Doesn't matter what i said but...

    Over at EJ the guy doing the spreadsheet has updated it and mentioned that vengence was reduced by 33% from the tests hes done himself.

    He also said that due to the vengence changes it also de-values the stat weight of exp and hit and crit and haste are now ahead. He didn't give an exact number to hit for expertise and hit (my excel isn't working so i can't use the spreadsheet atm) but he did say that even 7.5% seems too much.

    Expertise and hit still remain the best way to increase dps as before.
    I highly recommend downloading the spreadsheet and playing with your own numbers. Putting in my own stats (DW tanking, double Windsong, only 457 gear atm, using the old standard hit>exp>haste>crit) I am sitting at the hit cap and 9.5% on exp and it is showing me that hit and exp are BELOW parry but above dodge. ATM it is showing me agil>haste>crit>armor>parry>hit>exp>dodge>mastery, but again this is just what it is showing me. DO NOT take my numbers to be correct for all brewmasters as it has been said time and again your playstyle is going to affect your tanking way more than simple stats. Go download the spreadsheet and start playing around. Think I am going to try to tone down the hit/exp a bit to maybe somewhere between 4% and 8% and see what it tells me.


    Update:
    So for me, using the same basics as above, DW, double Windsong, 457 gear, just changing reforges, gems, and enchants, I got down to less than 4%(which was as low as I could go w/o different gear) for both hit and exp and they still did not get above haste, crit, or armor. I also noticed that haste and crit kept swapping places as to who was top depending on the relationship between the two, and yet more playing and I found the 'sweet spot' where haste and crit were equal...which was having 2k more crit than haste, which may not always mean 2k but may be the relative ratios of the two...which was about 4600 to 6600. Again please take my numbers with a grain of salt and go test your own, but these may be a helpful jumping off point.
    Last edited by Chuupag; 2012-10-21 at 06:44 PM.

  13. #853
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I highly recommend downloading the spreadsheet and playing with your own numbers. Putting in my own stats (DW tanking, double Windsong, only 457 gear atm, using the old standard hit>exp>haste>crit) I am sitting at the hit cap and 9.5% on exp and it is showing me that hit and exp are BELOW parry but above dodge. ATM it is showing me agil>haste>crit>armor>parry>hit>exp>dodge>mastery, but again this is just what it is showing me. DO NOT take my numbers to be correct for all brewmasters as it has been said time and again your playstyle is going to affect your tanking way more than simple stats. Go download the spreadsheet and start playing around. Think I am going to try to tone down the hit/exp a bit to maybe somewhere between 4% and 8% and see what it tells me.
    Oh yeah everyone should actually use the spreadsheet if you don't know what to go in for.

    Currently gone balls to the wall in mastery because of heroic gara'jal progression.. fun times

  14. #854
    Can you guys give me any tips for elegon? (normal mode)

    I was taking some serious damage from his breaths, i sometimes managed to guard the breaths, but it isnt up for every one of them, so should i use meditation and diffuse magics for them, or the annihlations from the adds?

  15. #855
    This vengeance nerf is annoying as shit...

    Actually had problems on the pull of Elegon with our WW monk... and the fact that my dps is a 1/3 less than it used to be is pretty annoying :/

    The thing is the problem is only going to get worse.. when vengeance was the way it was before the nerf eventually DPS would get geared and tank DPS will drop below everyone else but now we do less damage, will have more problems when pulling as well as the problem is only going to get worse the more geared DPS will be. Plus its not fun when your keg smash doesn't hit for half a million

  16. #856
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ergar View Post
    Can you guys give me any tips for elegon? (normal mode)

    I was taking some serious damage from his breaths, i sometimes managed to guard the breaths, but it isnt up for every one of them, so should i use meditation and diffuse magics for them, or the annihlations from the adds?
    It totally depends on how many adds you are getting, but you want to make sure that you have a CD for the breath that you take with 6-8 stacks, as that one stings, Defuse Magic and Zen Med will both do the job. I found that I was able to catch both a breath and annihalation with one defuse magic if I timed it well, obviously you can't do that with Zen Med as the boss will start meleeing you. Our dps is quick enough that I only have to tank once, we only get 2 adds in the first phase 1, so I can burn both CD's to soak the breaths which means all I have to do is deal with the odd big melee with high stacks.

    If you are getting more than 2 adds before pushing the first phase one then you might want to start calling for healer CD's as P2 and P3 you wont be taking much damage and they can't use their CD's at all cos the raid is spread out.

  17. #857
    we getting 2 adds b4 phase 2

  18. #858
    Quote Originally Posted by Nurhlag View Post
    Oh yeah everyone should actually use the spreadsheet if you don't know what to go in for.

    Currently gone balls to the wall in mastery because of heroic gara'jal progression.. fun times
    It gives me crit > haste > hit / exp. But tbh iam not sure if i want to drop the caps. Parried stuff is already annoying but missing and dodging. ugh.
    I think i will keep my route with 7.5% hit and exp then haste / crit.
    Maybe mastery for fights where i really get smashedon occasions.

  19. #859
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    It gives me crit > haste > hit / exp. But tbh iam not sure if i want to drop the caps. Parried stuff is already annoying but missing and dodging. ugh.
    I think i will keep my route with 7.5% hit and exp then haste / crit.
    Maybe mastery for fights where i really get smashedon occasions.
    Don't know if it's a good idea to not reach the caps. Brewmaster mitigates damage with stagger (converting direct damage into a dot that can be cleansed easily). So most important thing would be to keep the buff from BoK up at all times so that the amount of damage that is staggered is maximized. Without hit our jab and keg smash can miss and won't give us chi so hitting hit cap is very important. Expertise is debatable but personally I wouldn't change it. Also I think haste is more important than crit because we need as much energy regeneration as we can get so that we can produce as much chi as possible to keep BoK up and remove more staggered damage.

    Also mastery is very weak because it's only useful when we can keep our BoK buff up at all times. I will go with the old route because what the spreadsheet says makes no sense. Increase crit and decrease haste and hit so that I produce less chi so that I won't be able to keep BoK up at all times and cleanse the stagger dot? That doesn't sound right to me.

  20. #860
    The spreadsheet seems to value the absorb the statue provides more than the monks direct survivability. From what I gather with the nerfs to vengeance, hard exp cap becomes less valuable because of the decreased DPS we do. As a result statue absorbs we provide to the raid is reduced. Crit then becomes more valuable as a means to provide more statue absorbs. This is what I gather from the EJ post.

    I'm not sure I like this way I thinking though. Our personal survivability should come above the raids. At a point we have enough haste and we generate enough Chi to keep stagger up and we have enough Chi to use purifying brew and guard, etc crit may then be more valuable. Are we at this point with our gear levels already?
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