1. #1041
    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    Thats still guard and not the healing tier talents.
    Show me a log where the "healing tier talents" out heal a healer and I'll eat my hat. The bulk of brewmaster healing comes from guard.

    The vengeance fix didn't do jack diddly squat to the amount of average attack power we get over a fight, I think you need to re-read what was actually changed. It mainly combated people eating Annhilate/Massive attacks on spirit kings to achieve way more attack power than intended, still going to get the same amount of vengeance from tanking actual boss swings.

    Garalon is probably the only fight where we lost a good amount of attack power from the hotfix since he doesn't melee at all and just spams swipes.

    Statue guard bubbles is giving me some pretty insane numbers on Wind Lord Mel'jarak because of 200k+ dps. Almost keeping up with the actual healers
    Yup this is arguably one of our best fights, I managed a startling 190k hps with 35k of that being effective in phase one. Average guard I tossed out was 415k, pretty brutal to say the least.
    Last edited by Valsh; 2012-11-03 at 02:12 PM.

  2. #1042
    So, can someone give my gear a once over and make sure I'm not missing something huge? I still feel that I'm extremely squishy, and on fights like Will of the emperor or Blade Lord Ta Yak, I'm taking significantly more damage than our paladin tank. I'm trying to keep shuffle up as much as humanly possible and use guard / expel harm on CD, so I don't think its an ability issue.

  3. #1043
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepness View Post
    So, can someone give my gear a once over and make sure I'm not missing something huge? I still feel that I'm extremely squishy, and on fights like Will of the emperor or Blade Lord Ta Yak, I'm taking significantly more damage than our paladin tank. I'm trying to keep shuffle up as much as humanly possible and use guard / expel harm on CD, so I don't think its an ability issue.
    Not without an armory link

  4. #1044
    Quote Originally Posted by Kamadenhu View Post
    Not without an armory link
    Yeah I was trying to edit my post but it seems to not be letting me..

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/greymane/Desolatebear/simple

  5. #1045
    Quote Originally Posted by sleepness View Post
    Yeah I was trying to edit my post but it seems to not be letting me..

    us.battle.net/wow/en/character/greymane/Desolatebear/simple
    A log would be much more valuable to properly assess what might be going wrong.

  6. #1046
    Quote Originally Posted by Valsh View Post
    Show me a log where the "healing tier talents" out heal a healer and I'll eat my hat. The bulk of brewmaster healing comes from guard.
    Maybe reading stuff in context would help?
    Thats what i said before. That i dont believe our healing tree talents healed too much that its ok to nerf them by 25% for BrM and WW.
    Maybe MW is too strong then please adjust it for them not for all.

  7. #1047
    Got my hands on DMF stamina trinket for just a couple of thousand gold. would it be a good choice to use it?

  8. #1048
    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    Got my hands on DMF stamina trinket for just a couple of thousand gold. would it be a good choice to use it?
    I have heard of it being useful on some fights were we need more stam and mastery ie Elegon. On most fights i am using the agility deck

  9. #1049
    Quote Originally Posted by AshbringerAM View Post
    I have heard of it being useful on some fights were we need more stam and mastery ie Elegon. On most fights i am using the agility deck
    Stam trinket is useful on Will, and Garalon thus far. It is not useful on Elegon.

    Sig made by Shyama. Click sig for current Warlock armory.

  10. #1050
    Quote Originally Posted by Wushu View Post
    16 energy per second.

    (10 + 6) * 60 = 960 energy

    We still want 7.5 KS regardless which costs 300 Energy

    That leaves,
    (960-300) = 660 Energy for jab

    660 / 40 = 16.5 Jabs

    Chi Generated:
    16.5 *1 + 7.5 * 2 = 31.5 Chi

    Chi spent: 2 Guard = -4 Chi : 5 PB = -5 Chi
    31.5 - 4 - 5 = 22.5 Chi

    2 Chi per BoK
    22.5 / 2 = 11.25 BoKs


    There are 60 GCDs for use in one minute.
    11.25 BoK
    7.5 KS
    16.5 Jab
    Total: 35.25 GCDs

    Thus, this leaves 24.75 GCDs to be used for Tiger Palm.

    In other words, despite being at 16 energy per second you are still spamming the shit out of tiger palm.
    Quote Originally Posted by Wushu View Post
    If anyone see any errors, let me know and I will fix them.
    I can include misses and guard into the equation as variables as well, but it gets a bit more complicated, and probably won't make a huge difference. Though if someone wants that or If anyone wants to see the derivation, let me know, and I will post it.




    Now that I look at it you can simply put this in a very easy equation,

    % Shuffle uptime = 0.125/t +(4.5*E + 10.5 - 3*PB)/60

    E = Energy per second (Note: Chi Brew and Power Strikes are roughly equivalent to 1.9 Energy per second.)
    PB = Purifying Brews used per minute
    t = fight length in minutes
    *Assuming that guard is used on CD and no heals are used
    *Not factoring in misses/dodges/parries



    Thus from my above example,
    E = Energy per second = 16
    PB = Purifying Brews used per minute = 1
    t = fight length in minutes = 6

    % Shuffle uptime = (.125/[1] + ([16] * 4.5 + 10.5 - 3*[5])/60 = 1.25


    Minimum Energy per second (E) for 100% uptime in 6 minute fight

    (.125/6 + (E * 4.5 + 10.5 - 3*5)/60 = 1
    => E = 14.0556 Energy per second

    If we lower PB to 4 uses per minute,
    (.125/6 + (E * 4.5 + 10.5 - 3*4)/60 = 1
    => E = 13.39 Energy per second

    Pretty significant difference just in using one less PB (Mastery sucks, cough, cough..)


    Offtanking Case (No Guard and No PB)
    (.125/6 + (E * 4.5 + 14.5 - 3*0)/60 = 1
    => E = 9.833

    If you are not being hit while off-tanking, then even base energy regen allows you to stack a surplus of shuffle.
    (gonna steal his work for outline)

    How much energy do you get back on miss? 32 ?
    We will assume that for now anyways,



    Now lets say you have 92.5% chance to hit (7.5% chance to be parried).
    32/40 = 80% return

    1000 Jabs = 40,000 energy
    925 Hits = 925 * 30 = 37,000 energy = 925 chi
    75 parries = 75 * 32 = 2,400 energy = 0 chi


    (37,000 + 2,400)/40,000 = 98.5% energy efficiency
    (39,400 Energy)/(925 Chi) = 42.6 energy per chi



    13 energy per second.
    (10 + 3) * 60 = 780 energy

    We still want 7.5 KS regardless which costs
    7.5 * 42.6 = 319.5 Energy

    That leaves,
    (780-319.5) = 460.5 Energy for jab

    Expel Harm can't miss (Assume 4 per Minute)
    460.5 /( 40*4/x + 42.6 * (x-4)/x ) = x
    => x = jabs + expel harm = 11.054

    Chi Generated:
    11.054 *1 + 7.5 * 2 = 26.05


    (780 Energy per min) / (26.05 Chi / min) = 29.94 energy / chi
    Thus, with 7.5% expertise & 13 base energy regen 1 chi costs 30 energy.


    Equation:
    (%h * 40 + %m * 32)/(%h) = X

    E*60 / (((E*60 - 7.5*X) + 10.4)/(X) + 15) = Energy/chi

    %h = hit chance
    %m = miss chance
    E = Energy per sec

    In given problem,
    13*60 / (((13*60 - 7.5*42.6) + 10.4)/(42.6) + 15) = 29.94 energy per chi


    Gain 1% expertise
    13*60 / (((13*60 - 7.5*(.935 * 40 + .065 * 32)/(.935)) + 10.4)/((.935 * 40 + .065 * 32)/(.935)) + 15) = 29.75 Energy/Chi
    Thus, a gain of 0.1664 chi per minute = 0.111 Energy per Second

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 09:38 AM ----------

    Power Strikes = Chi brew(Used on CD) = ~ 2.85 chi per minute

    2.85 Chi/min * 1 min / 60 sec * 42.6 energy / chi = 2 Energy per second

    Ascension needs to generate 2 Energy per second to surpass it.
    Last edited by morbidone; 2012-11-04 at 09:57 AM.

  11. #1051
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Too bad he was banned...would have loved to know what the heck he was getting at with that wall of text </sarcasm>

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 06:10 PM ----------

    So I posted a thread on this...but got over 200+ views and no response...so figured I'd ask it here:

    Xuen does not seem to be taunting off Heroic Dungeon bosses for me anymore, even though he had as recently as last week. This is a bit of an annoyance b/c I was using him as much a tank cd as he took the boss off me for as long as he survived. Has anyone else noticed this? Heroics are becoming less and less challenging so it's not a huge deal but I do not remember seeing a hotfix on this issue and the tooltip still says that he taunts for Brewmaster spec.

  12. #1052
    He worked fine for me last night, used in Scholomance HC, so i dont think they have it hotfixed to not taunt, unless there are certain bosses immune to pets tanking..

  13. #1053
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    Too bad he was banned...would have loved to know what the heck he was getting at with that wall of text </sarcasm>

    ---------- Post added 2012-11-04 at 06:10 PM ----------

    So I posted a thread on this...but got over 200+ views and no response...so figured I'd ask it here:

    Xuen does not seem to be taunting off Heroic Dungeon bosses for me anymore, even though he had as recently as last week. This is a bit of an annoyance b/c I was using him as much a tank cd as he took the boss off me for as long as he survived. Has anyone else noticed this? Heroics are becoming less and less challenging so it's not a huge deal but I do not remember seeing a hotfix on this issue and the tooltip still says that he taunts for Brewmaster spec.
    I noticed this too. Sometimes he would tank the boss...sometimes not.
    I have yet to check if its a certain boss issue since iam just to lazy to remember when it happens since its nothing big just a bit annoying.

  14. #1054
    Hey guys i wanted to ask as a brew master wots best for us as weapon 2 h or 2x 1h ? sum1 told me you get more stacks with 2x 1 hand is that true?

  15. #1055
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Galbathor View Post
    Hey guys i wanted to ask as a brew master wots best for us as weapon 2 h or 2x 1h ? sum1 told me you get more stacks with 2x 1 hand is that true?
    You get about the same. 2-Hander gives more per proc (2 stacks), however 2 1-Handers provides more procs (but only 1 stack per).

  16. #1056
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Asmalya View Post
    I noticed this too. Sometimes he would tank the boss...sometimes not.
    I have yet to check if its a certain boss issue since iam just to lazy to remember when it happens since its nothing big just a bit annoying.
    Yeah it seems to randomly work on some bosses, others it wont. Haven't figured out if it's just certain bosses or just gets lazy and doesn't taunt randomly.

    Since I have 489 fist weapons and a 2H (coin rolls have been kind) I've tried both and really feel like the DW DPS is higher and the EB stacks generate at roughly the same rate as 2H. Hit 97k on dogs this week and would have been top 100 on the first HoF if we had killed him

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  17. #1057
    Just like to get some ideas of what CDs BMs use and when.

    Other than the standard Dampen Harm for physical, Diffuse Magic for non-physical and Fortifying Brew and Guard as general cds...when/which bosses do you tanks use Avert Harm and Zen Meditation(glyphed/unglyphed). Do you use it in conjunction, as I do?
    When I just use Avert Harm on its own I drop so quicky if there's a lot of AOE dmg going on. Even with fair warning to healers they just can't keep me up(25man raid). I have only been using it when I'm currently not tanking the boss either, after a switch.

    Is there a case to use Karma for tanking a boss or no? Are the hits based on pre-mitigation or just how much HP you lose through that hit, whether it works or not?

    Am I missing any crucial CDs I didn't think of implementing? Something 'out-of-the-box', an original use of CDs. Please share.

    Personally, I can't wait for 5.1 when I'll get Survival Instincts from our feral cat! That will make a huge difference. I constantly wonder what the healers think when I call out for so many external cds in the course of a progression night and our Prot war never asks for anything >.<

  18. #1058
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Avert Harm + Zen Med are good combo's to use on fights where you are off tanking and there is heavy damage on the current tank or raid.

    Feng: During AOE phases when the shield is down, coordinate with healers so help during one of the weaker CD rounds on their end.
    Gara: AH is nice to use when off tanking and the current tank gets Voodoo'd to pull some of the strain off him from the boss + shadowy attacks.
    Kings: Your pretty much always getting beat on negating ZM, you could use AH during the crazy phrase so long as the raid doesn't reflect to much damage onto themselves.
    Elegon: I can't think of a real safe time to use AH maybe while killing orbs, otherwise your always getting beat on or exploded by something. ZM can be timed right before a breath to soak it.
    Will: I can't think either are useful here.

    1st HoF: Work AH+ZM into your healer CD rotation for the Verve's (especially in the burn phase). We found it nearly impossible to survive those without a CD of some sort rolling (it does almost 1 mil damage to most players even under the shields I think). I would spam Chi Wave on CD to help as well.
    Last edited by SurrealNight; 2012-11-06 at 04:39 PM.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  19. #1059

    Meta Gems?

    This guide is different than most other guides with regards to meta gem choice. Is it still believed this is optimal?

    Most advice I see is to use: [Austere Primal Diamond].

    This guide says [Agile Primal Diamond], or a crit one after 2pc tier: [Destructive Primal Diamond], [Impassive Primal Diamond], [Enigmatic Primal Diamond]

    Thanks!
    Barleyclaw - Axis - Dark Iron US

  20. #1060
    Stamina is a very arbitrary stat which fluctuates between awesome and completely worthless depending on the fight. Agility and crit do similar (though crit does it more often), but their fluctuations are much smaller. Crit and Agi are always useful. The armor you get is okay, but it doesn't help as much as the agi or crit (especially the crit, after 2 piece)

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