1. #1601
    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    ElvUI automatically adjusts your avoidance depending on the character level that you're targeting. If you're targeting nothing, it will show the paperdoll avoidance. If you target a raid boss (+3 levels), it should adjust accordingly.
    Oh that's nice, but I don't use ElvUI. Anybody got a weakaura that would display total avoidance?
    Barleyclaw - Axis - Dark Iron US

  2. #1602
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Will double check that tonight on some dummies. If that is the case I have 80% avoidance vs Thrash and I don't even have my 2P yet which is pretty beast =P Thanks for the info Chuupag I forgot about that.
    I have 4 set and regular sit at 82-83% avoidance assuming Elvui is accurate, without trinket procs.

    It's pretty nice but I can't help but feel that if we are achieving this kind of avoidance, even if it is not 100% uptime, in the first tier, we are going to get hit pretty hard at some point with a nerf or redesign. I mean, our avoidance scales automatically with agi, which is base on gear and will go up with ilvl, then we do not need more haste, so all our additional secondary stats will go crit which will increase our uptime, add the 2 together and you have pretty strong outcome in further tiers.

    Will be interesting to see how this pans out, because in my mind, this kind of scaling will push us to the top of the pack pretty easily, I guess the only thing keeping that in check to a degree will be the 5% we lose from set bonus when we move to the next tier, but as that is a 2 set, you can conceivably keep that for a long time if the next tier 4 set is not crazy strong and you have heroic tier upgraded twice.

    I expect an avoidance nerf to be coupled with a passive damage reduction increase at some point.
    Last edited by Valient; 2012-12-22 at 12:02 AM.

  3. #1603
    Can anyone help me out plz?

    I am looking for the haste I need if I want to have 24 Chi per Minute.
    This should give me 100% shuffle and 2 guards.

    As there is no other way to spend chi with the patch this should be our go to haste shouldnt it ?

    Maybe a bit above to get rid of some stagger hmm

    Anyone else thought about that yet ?

  4. #1604
    "his is discussed in more detail in the Debates section"

    Debates Section: TBA


    FACEPALMING SO HARD

    Cmon. if you are going to direct us 5 times in your guide to the Debate section, FINISH THE SECTION lol
    Till water is gone, Till shade is gone. Into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath. To spit in Sightblinders eye on the last day.

  5. #1605
    Quote Originally Posted by Tkain View Post
    Can anyone help me out plz?

    I am looking for the haste I need if I want to have 24 Chi per Minute.
    This should give me 100% shuffle and 2 guards.

    As there is no other way to spend chi with the patch this should be our go to haste shouldnt it ?

    Maybe a bit above to get rid of some stagger hmm

    Anyone else thought about that yet ?
    There's still purifying brew, which is the main usage of our Chi beyond the bare minimum required for Shuffle/Guard. For argument's sake, you'll need 11 energy regen to achieve 24 chi per minute (but I still wouldn't advocate going for it, since the changes to the T30 healing talents won't affect our Chi usage much so we'll still need a ton of it).

    Maybe haste is devalued a little in 5.2. Maybe. Nothing significant though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlehoff View Post
    "his is discussed in more detail in the Debates section"

    Debates Section: TBA


    FACEPALMING SO HARD

    Cmon. if you are going to direct us 5 times in your guide to the Debate section, FINISH THE SECTION lol
    I'd say you can consider the replies to this thread the debates section, to be honest. :P We're actively discussing stuff here, or at least answering questions.

  6. #1606
    Quote Originally Posted by Tkain View Post
    Can anyone help me out plz?

    I am looking for the haste I need if I want to have 24 Chi per Minute.
    This should give me 100% shuffle and 2 guards.

    As there is no other way to spend chi with the patch this should be our go to haste shouldnt it ?

    Maybe a bit above to get rid of some stagger hmm

    Anyone else thought about that yet ?
    The issue isn't necessarily how much energy regen you need at minimum... it's also how long it takes for you to generate enough energy to get that chi. Sitting at 11 er/s technically will get you 24 chi per minute, but that also means that it takes you about 3.6 seconds to get enough energy to generate chi, which means for every non-KS or PS, you will be losing 1.2 seconds off of each application of shuffle, assuming absolutely perfect play.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlehoff View Post
    "his is discussed in more detail in the Debates section"

    Debates Section: TBA


    FACEPALMING SO HARD

    Cmon. if you are going to direct us 5 times in your guide to the Debate section, FINISH THE SECTION lol
    It's just to see your wonderful, charming reaction <3

  7. #1607
    Can someone give me a link to whatever the original source of the information on Dualwield versus 2handers is?

    I'm 99.999% positive I've seen it cited innumerable times that there's really not a significant difference between the two for tanking, so, just hoping someone can point me to it since I can't seem to find it.

  8. #1608
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trendy-Ideology View Post
    Can someone give me a link to whatever the original source of the information on Dualwield versus 2handers is?

    I'm 99.999% positive I've seen it cited innumerable times that there's really not a significant difference between the two for tanking, so, just hoping someone can point me to it since I can't seem to find it.
    I have attempted to find these for you...but as far as I can determine the original posts no longer exist as they were on the beta forums. Using a 2-hander nets you 40% attack speed and using 2 1-handers nets you 40% increased white damage via Way of the Monk. DW with a decent amount of hit and exp will be more dps, but EB generation should be almost exactly the same. I could do the math...but I really don't want to have to delve into that nightmare of a formula.

  9. #1609
    Quote Originally Posted by Zaxus View Post
    Oh that's nice, but I don't use ElvUI. Anybody got a weakaura that would display total avoidance?
    To answer my own question, I just took the code from ElvUI and modified it a bit into a custom text Weak Aura. I'm pretty sure it's all working correctly. Should work for other classes, but I haven't tested.

    You can get the WeakAura here: http://pastebin.com/jE4F4Ymf

    Code:
    dKK9oaGiQuxIcvFsKQgLeDkeSkrjVcjvZcH6wIQ2LOYVqsiddHCmrPwMe6zuinnQsDnkW2Os6BuLyCujCoQsQ3rbbZJcr3tq7tKkoifklejjpeLKjIKYfrsO2iss9rjOrsbjNeLyLs1mPGIBIKODsbv)uKknuQsYsPq4PiXuLaxLkrFfjb7LQ6VuqPbdhgvlMk6XiAYs5YK2mf9zuQrlItl0QPGuVwKYSjCBQIDtPFJIHlkwUKEosnDIUUiz7c8DkiA8OK68uH5tbH2VA)S9lWNIhFknFkn)c8P0I0zeChfOSw6tX4K(uitrlz8uGYAPpfZuwszKXokjCFmgJ7JXyCFmgdbdjxmAr6mcUdkYA0YM4HGtl9kUvf3hJXqWqYfdtMQhUCeoOL1OLDotMQhU8(ymgcgsUyi5v2Queq8iJG7qRIG7JXyiyi5IHtoT6jsttMWTKkXdHgOIw00uRQLujE0yASvIhz41QdIhofmKPr8GhWeBClPs8iLnjkLCNcL4bpGj20gXdNcgY00gXdBkpglGj24wsLM4rkBsuk5ofkvYz99XymemKCXGmHBjvkYA0YEeoCB8CfnnUXDFFmgdbdjxm8W0IMrTsrwJw2JWbTSgTSZzOzI2s3UjE424Trj1Dt8GmHBjvkYA0YM4HBcUjCFmgJ7JXyenhAGALJWWHBxA4SuGH1yU0imM7b32gPSr5ydXWr6Zi4o0A6hYe1oQQmv1ouB7(ymgsELTkfbepYi4o0QiyeoCPnknmAGkkDl5v2Q0nbIhU0gLggnqfLUZi4o0QBc3hJX4(ymg5ZpKj6WGrKEyYuho506WtKMEqMWTK69XymIMdjVYwLIGry4iF2dzIAVpgJXymgo50QNinnzc3sQJWrPbJ8JsJMvUIeiCFmgJXymeAGkArttTQwsDeom69XymubTgnhsELTkfbJ0zKrWDOvrWqMO27JXymgJHtoT6jsttMWTK6iCuAWi)OSuYRSvPiyKFKrWDOvraHSYvKaH7JXymgJHqdurlAAQv1sQJWrPKxzRsrWi)iJG7qRIac3hJXqf0A0Ci5v2QuemmYrgb3HwfbdUTnK8kBvkcgPZGOHmrT3hJXymgdNCA1tKMMmHBj1r4O0Gb1hLLzeChAvemYpK8kBvkciKvUIeiCFmgJXymeAGkArttTQwsDeokL8kBvkcg5hzeChAveq4(ymgQGwVpgJXymgo50QNinnzc3sQJWHb3hJXymgdHgOIw00uRQLuhHdIUpgJHAB3hJX4(ymgrZbTkuszzrIhU0gLgbNulDNrWDOv3eimcdhUn8i7ejvSW09qMO2HtoT6jsttMWTK6iC4KtREI00KjClPoO(O4qTT7JXyCFmgJO5qObQOfnn1QAj1r6eoiAitu79XymgJXOX0yRJWrzHQKAmn2kRs4wsTKqEHgOIw00uRQLuZkxrc3hJXymgJm8A1XiCuwOk9kET6GvjClPwsiVqdurlAAQv1sQzLRiH7JXymgJHtbdzAJWrzHQKQemKPXQeULuljKxObQOfnn1QAj1SYvKW9XymubTEFmgJXymAmn26iCuwOkPgtJTYQeULuljqDUt6sHgOIw00uRQLuZkxrceUpgJXymgz41QJr4OSqv6v8A1bRs4wsTKa15oPlfAGkArttTQwsnRCfjq4(ymgJXy4uWqM2iCuwOkPkbdzASkHBj1scuN7KUuObQOfnn1QAj1SYvKaH7JXyO229XymUpgJrkBsuk5ofkvYz9iCKnreDFmgdBkpglGj24wsLEeo8((ymgrZrJPXwhgz4GOHmrTJgtJTochenuB7(ymgrZrgET6yyKHdIgYe1oYWRvhJWbrd12UpgJr0C4uWqM2WidhenKjQD4uWqM2iCq0qTT7JXyCFmgJ7JXyiyi5Irgb3HwzLGttpchU0gLSsWPPlDNrWDOv3emeUpgJX9XymUpgJr0CKrWDOvwj400JWWHBQzeUKfQ5EWTTrHQKQySPOPkEnDnnPvzjHry4WOdzIAVpgJXymg3hJXqTT7JXyCFmgJ7JXyiyi5Ibl0ubLxJw2usIQOnchMCbTEFmgdbdjxmOfmswO2iCuOkzXgOwjt1bfbJKfRjtPBkkjJTXRomuCBJIGr6MW9XymemKCXikvpSqTr4OqvYInqTsMQdwKQhwOwz6Zi4o0A6jEqlyKSqnc3hJX4(ymgrZruQEyHAdzIAVpgJXymgSqtfuEnAztjjQI2iCqRcLuw6fIhfQswKQhwSMmLrP6HfQrGWimCKEkjrv0Ot)9XymuB7(ymg3hJXiAoSmYbl0ubLxJw2usIQOnKjQ9(ymgJXy4uWqM2iCq09XymgJXWMYJXcyInULuPhHdBkpglGj24wsLEKFK99XymuB7(ymg3hJX4(ymgPSjrPK7uOujN1JWrkBsuk5ofkvYz9G6JYsIYvCK1qObQOfnn1QAjvcJSg2uEmwatSXTKknH7JXyCFmgdEatSPTr4OSX0yRupdVwDqDNCA1tKMMmHBjvcJ85P6yLwoQmcXGXosIYHK7uOJMk1QNOnAzpIMdzIosIYHNinT2UpgJHtbdzAABeokZMiIg5h8aMytBeYYPGHmnQOSjIOr(8SyoKj6ijkhcUTPTHmrTdzIoOvsgBBuzeIrtLA1t0Q0JO5qMOJKi9WqYPhofmKPPT7JXyWdyInULuhHJsEatSPnQ7uWqMM2iCFmgJu2KOuYDk0r4GhWeBClPoYpsztIsj3PqPsoRVpgJX9XymUpgJbpGj24wsDeoOL1OLDotMQhUS0TXZ5EKl3OSiHrUCd3MUjEWdyInULujCFmgJ7JXyWdyInULuhHdEatSXTK6yKl3WTXnU77JXyCFmgJ7JXyuvzQQDWdyInULuVpgJX9XymUpgJX9XymUpgJXD128P4iDnnPvPpvN3aVl6DrdmQxCH3gyGbguSOVzEVnWNsvzhzSf4iJ6trQSw6tXqNIwgnD4tXiyPqdvb(uK1iB2A1VaFkshzuFk0sUmfTpLuwnqTsFk8usgFkPOvdBkBu6tv(sFkgYytM4t1U6QlmGOIETRfnA2g11Ig4QVzEV9IpfBkpfuJSzRvAFdpBFkSoDnnPvPpvBGx7ISnQr92vxniBxD1fE7cFZ8E7QpLenYor6t1UAGREXlg4fxDHlCLOIUw0BFZ8E71(uInFkglGj24ws1NIGH38lWNsLrO(f4tXtkHm6xGV0x6l9L(uO9PKDoVZ5LCUWNsGVHNT3erKV03h
    Last edited by Zaxus; 2012-12-22 at 07:23 PM.
    Barleyclaw - Axis - Dark Iron US

  10. #1610
    IAM A HAPPY PANDA

    just saying...stuff against stuns is so welcome.

  11. #1611
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I have attempted to find these for you...but as far as I can determine the original posts no longer exist as they were on the beta forums. Using a 2-hander nets you 40% attack speed and using 2 1-handers nets you 40% increased white damage via Way of the Monk. DW with a decent amount of hit and exp will be more dps, but EB generation should be almost exactly the same. I could do the math...but I really don't want to have to delve into that nightmare of a formula.
    The big thing I'm thinking of is that my EB stacks are much less likely to fall off, and will generate much less sporadically, with DW v.s. 2H. That alone is enough to make me want it.

  12. #1612
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trendy-Ideology View Post
    The big thing I'm thinking of is that my EB stacks are much less likely to fall off, and will generate much less sporadically, with DW v.s. 2H. That alone is enough to make me want it.
    I'm assuming you're talking about when you're tank swapping, b/c otherwise using it every 9 seconds that issue would never come up. Elusive Brew stacks last 30 seconds. If you're not getting at least 1 white attack crit every 30 seconds something is wrong.

    Consistency is one of the benefits of DW vs 2-hander, again the math(however complicated it may be) says the end result is the same however.

  13. #1613
    So...how about them 5.2 PTR changes? Big things in the works here, Brewmasters about to get better.
    杜氏清兵衛

  14. #1614
    Hi all,

    I'm normally a WW monk, but agreed to be doing some tanking to hold down the fort until some of members on leave come back. So was thinking of trying out tanking on the monk, and after reading some stuff I haves few of questions:

    For Stagger, does it stack first of all? Furthermore, is this dot something we should be getting rid of right away with Purifying Brew, or is this something we leave on until it gets too damaging, then cleanse off?

    I get gearing and even reforming is essentially the same, but for things like trinkets, do we want to aim for more "traditional" tanking trinkets (assuming no block) or do we go for the same agil ones?

    For defensive CDs, looks like Guard is something to always keep up, Elusive Brew and Fortifying Brew are the big ones?

    Thanks for any help in answering these and any other input you might have, haven't tanked anything since WotlK, so things are kinda new lol,

  15. #1615
    Quote Originally Posted by xezar View Post
    Hi all,

    I'm normally a WW monk, but agreed to be doing some tanking to hold down the fort until some of members on leave come back. So was thinking of trying out tanking on the monk, and after reading some stuff I haves few of questions:

    For Stagger, does it stack first of all? Furthermore, is this dot something we should be getting rid of right away with Purifying Brew, or is this something we leave on until it gets too damaging, then cleanse off?

    I get gearing and even reforming is essentially the same, but for things like trinkets, do we want to aim for more "traditional" tanking trinkets (assuming no block) or do we go for the same agil ones?

    For defensive CDs, looks like Guard is something to always keep up, Elusive Brew and Fortifying Brew are the big ones?

    Thanks for any help in answering these and any other input you might have, haven't tanked anything since WotlK, so things are kinda new lol,
    Most, if not all, of this info can be found in Madgod's guide/initial post. But for quick tips and to answer ur questions directly, here we go:

    Stagger: Yes it stacks and it can continually stack. I've had as much as a 2 min stagger buff (lol way too much I know, easy content and I was lazy). I find that Needtoknow is a fantastic addon for tracking this and several other buffs. As far as purifying, I use the Brewmaster Tao addon. It's amazing and is set up to show you your stagger buff as a color, and the % of your health that your stagger amount is at. You want to wait to purify when the bar turns yellow or red. Any sooner and you're essentially wasting chi. 40% or higher seems to be a good purifying point.

    Trinkets will vary, so use what works best for you based on the specific fight. I'm using Vial of Dragon's Blood and Bottle of Infinite Stars at the moment (both LFR versions) and I love the combination. Just go with what you feel/what you can get.

    Guard is definitely good to use on cd but if you have DBM and know big damage is incoming, save it for that. Feel it out. Brewmaster tanking is very much about adapting to your present situation. Fortifying Brew can be an "OH SHIT!" cd or a preemptive one. Just keep the cd timer in mind so you know roughly when you'll have it up again. Remember it also increases the amount of damage you stagger, so a preemptive use on a trash pull (I'm talking to you HoF -.-) is awesome since you can essentially put your physical damage intake to a 40% initial hit/60% stagger with shuffle up (think that's right...).

    BrM was my first foray into tanking (and WoW playing) since WotLK also, so I definitely can relate. Just remember that there is no cookie cutter rotation/build for this spec and class, it's all about priorities and adapting.

    Good Luck!

    (Take with a grain of salt. These are how I see things after going through a lot of the information on here and I may have mixed something up or misunderstood something. If any of the regular posters want to add or change anything, I would say listen to them over me since they're the ones doing the math and theorycrafting :P most importantly, HAVE FUN BEING A TRUE AVOIDANCE TANK!)
    Last edited by thedr8993; 2012-12-23 at 06:40 AM.

  16. #1616
    Quote Originally Posted by thedr8993 View Post
    Most, if not all, of this info can be found in Madgod's guide/initial post. But for quick tips and to answer ur questions directly, here we go:

    Stagger: Yes it stacks and it can continually stack. I've had as much as a 2 min stagger buff (lol way too much I know, easy content and I was lazy). I find that Needtoknow is a fantastic addon for tracking this and several other buffs. As far as purifying, I use the Brewmaster Tao addon. It's amazing and is set up to show you your stagger buff as a color, and the % of your health that your stagger amount is at. You want to wait to purify when the bar turns yellow or red. Any sooner and you're essentially wasting chi. 40% or higher seems to be a good purifying point.

    Trinkets will vary, so use what works best for you based on the specific fight. I'm using Vial of Dragon's Blood and Bottle of Infinite Stars at the moment (both LFR versions) and I love the combination. Just go with what you feel/what you can get.

    Guard is definitely good to use on cd but if you have DBM and know big damage is incoming, save it for that. Feel it out. Brewmaster tanking is very much about adapting to your present situation. Fortifying Brew can be an "OH SHIT!" cd or a preemptive one. Just keep the cd timer in mind so you know roughly when you'll have it up again. Remember it also increases the amount of damage you stagger, so a preemptive use on a trash pull (I'm talking to you HoF -.-) is awesome since you can essentially put your physical damage intake to a 40% initial hit/60% stagger with shuffle up (think that's right...).

    BrM was my first foray into tanking (and WoW playing) since WotLK also, so I definitely can relate. Just remember that there is no cookie cutter rotation/build for this spec and class, it's all about priorities and adapting.

    Good Luck!

    (Take with a grain of salt. These are how I see things after going through a lot of the information on here and I may have mixed something up or misunderstood something. If any of the regular posters want to add or change anything, I would say listen to them over me since they're the ones doing the math and theorycrafting :P most importantly, HAVE FUN BEING A TRUE AVOIDANCE TANK!)
    Thanks for the advice, I did read some of the initial post but wasn't too super clear on some of the things, hence why I asked

    I'll look into that addon as well, sounds useful. Didn't even know Fortifying Brew increased Stagger, only been playing WW up to now. But yeah, thanks again!

  17. #1617
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I'm assuming you're talking about when you're tank swapping, b/c otherwise using it every 9 seconds that issue would never come up. Elusive Brew stacks last 30 seconds. If you're not getting at least 1 white attack crit every 30 seconds something is wrong.

    Consistency is one of the benefits of DW vs 2-hander, again the math(however complicated it may be) says the end result is the same however.
    Math on paper does not equate to what happens in game. I have had to use a 3 stack of EB at 1 sec to prevent it from falling off while using a 2hander before. It does happen.

    Sig made by Shyama. Click sig for current Warlock armory.

  18. #1618
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    Math on paper does not equate to what happens in game. I have had to use a 3 stack of EB at 1 sec to prevent it from falling off while using a 2hander before. It does happen.
    I'm fairly certain that situation would have to had come from stacks generated on a trash pull, or during a time when you cannot actually melee, because the odds of that happening are ridiculously low.

  19. #1619
    A little off topic here but...

    I got my Darkmoon Deck completed!! Yaaay! And I'm only 7 days away from getting my Inscription BoA staff, so that'll tide me over for awhile.
    杜氏清兵衛

  20. #1620
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    I'm assuming you're talking about when you're tank swapping, b/c otherwise using it every 9 seconds that issue would never come up. Elusive Brew stacks last 30 seconds. If you're not getting at least 1 white attack crit every 30 seconds something is wrong.

    Consistency is one of the benefits of DW vs 2-hander, again the math(however complicated it may be) says the end result is the same however.

    Well WW stuff on Noxic supposedly says there's a 5% dps increase from DW...

    But besides that

    http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte...panda/advanced

    I don't know how, or why, but I've definitely had EB stacks fall off due to lack of white-hit for 30s. Well, I do know how or why... sometimes ridiculous RNG, sometimes it's because of a tank swap or mechanics force me to move or not be able to melee for a bit... but DW would certainly clean that up a bit with the more frequent white hit crits.

    Either that or they should buff the 2H EB stack duration to 90s, since we get stacksx3 for crits with 2H.


    Also I really need to figure out a way to glyph roll as tank and not kill the raid for tank swapping fights... having to throttle DPS with an undergeared OT is brutal sometimes.

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