1. #1721
    Quote Originally Posted by thedr8993 View Post
    We need Guard AND Dampen Harm to survive the second stack? Haven't tried non lfr so just curious. The next logical question is, I think, will both of those cds be up every time you need them to be?
    Yah, as Wreckage said, you don't need them. It just helps a lot.

    Guard should be available every time if you're aware, but Dampen Harm won't be (should be every other second stack, I think?). Tbh I don't even bother using Dampen Harm these days. I probably will when I get to progressing on heroic mode, though.

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-30 at 09:54 AM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by bkw View Post
    maybe this was asked before but, its worth using Glyph of Guard on non-magic nor high physical damage taken bosses? (see normal stone guards for example), if the correct dog overloads, there is just a minimal damage taken, nothing that would kill you. Guard here would be up every 30 seconds unless you go to a cobalt mine, and you would have a 30% healing buff with 100% uptime, but no like you need THAT healing either..
    Not really. And Stone Guard can actually be quite brutal on the tanks, with the bleed. Well, not on normal, but on heroic yeah.

    But hm... You're essentially asking about how to minmax on boss encounters which don't require it by definition (fights which don't have high magic or physical damage taken) To which I ask... Why bother?

    That said, overall unless the fight is really magic heavy (Lei Shi) or the dangerous sources of damage are magical (Elegon), glyphing Guard isn't worth it. You'll be taking more damage overall and the boost to self heals won't outweigh that deficiency.

  2. #1722
    Out of curiosity, since Avert Harm only lasts 6 seconds and the cooldown is a full 3 minutes, does anyone have any advice on what bosses it's especially good for? The only one I'm certain of right now is Blade Lord with AH + Zen Meditation and a spare chi for an immediate Purifying Brew.
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  3. #1723
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Out of curiosity, since Avert Harm only lasts 6 seconds and the cooldown is a full 3 minutes, does anyone have any advice on what bosses it's especially good for? The only one I'm certain of right now is Blade Lord with AH + Zen Meditation and a spare chi for an immediate Purifying Brew.
    I use it on just about every fight I am tanking. So I don't know why you wouldn't be using it. I use it about twice on every fight, so many of them I don't want to even list them all. You just need to pay attention to where you could use it.

  4. #1724
    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckage827 View Post
    I use it on just about every fight I am tanking. So I don't know why you wouldn't be using it. I use it about twice on every fight, so many of them I don't want to even list them all. You just need to pay attention to where you could use it.
    Let me give you some clarification. I'm normally a DPS that decided to learn his tanking off-spec and hasn't had the experience to figure this out. It's a 10 yard range meaning that using it 'just whenever there's damage going out" seems like a very high chance of wasting it entirely.

    I've seen people claim it was great for helping the other tank when you've swapped and there's spike damage incoming. I'd assume that on Will of the Emperor if you have a melee "buddy" on the same boss that you suspect is going to take a combo tapping it when you're already safe wouldn't be a bad idea. (Especially if Titan Gas is out.) I have no idea about Terrace.
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  5. #1725
    Yeah, the 10 yard range makes it fairly situational. I'm also fairly certain you're exaggerating on being able to use it twice on every fight, Wreckage. It'd have pretty minimal use on, say, Stone Guard for example (unless the tanks make a mistake and explode the wrong dog).

    I think one of the main uses would be on tank swap fights where you can stay near the other tank... Feng, Gara'jal (after getting out of the banish) Blade Lord as you say, and probably more. You can also use it on heavy raid damage moments where the raid is stacked: again, Feng would be a good contender here. Lei Shi as well, during a Get Away. I also like to use it on Shek'zeer, when the Dissonance Fields are about to explode, as they can be pretty nasty for random deaths.

    Make sure you're pairing it up with Zen Meditation as well so all that damage you've redirected is essentially negated. You have to cast Avert Harm first, then Zen Meditation, or the cast of Avert Harm will cancel Zen Meditation.

  6. #1726
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    Let me give you some clarification. I'm normally a DPS that decided to learn his tanking off-spec and hasn't had the experience to figure this out. It's a 10 yard range meaning that using it 'just whenever there's damage going out" seems like a very high chance of wasting it entirely.

    I've seen people claim it was great for helping the other tank when you've swapped and there's spike damage incoming. I'd assume that on Will of the Emperor if you have a melee "buddy" on the same boss that you suspect is going to take a combo tapping it when you're already safe wouldn't be a bad idea. (Especially if Titan Gas is out.) I have no idea about Terrace.
    A few examples of when I find it appropriate to use:

    When you aren't actively tanking on Gara'jal, use it when you are near the other tank.

    When the raid is grouped up for Epicenter or Arcane Annihilation on Feng, it works well when paired with Zen Meditation (it might zip you right down to 10% if used without Zen in certain situations).

    On Blade Lord, before an Overwhelming Assault on the other tank or before an Unseen Strike (I have not tried it for Unseen). Also in Phase 2.

    Etc

    I would say that I most often use it as a "Barkskin" for the other tank either during a period of high damage on them or just whenever it's available if there isn't a particularly dangerous attack.

  7. #1727
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Yeah, the 10 yard range makes it fairly situational. I'm also fairly certain you're exaggerating on being able to use it twice on every fight, Wreckage. It'd have pretty minimal use on, say, Stone Guard for example (unless the tanks make a mistake and explode the wrong dog).

    I think one of the main uses would be on tank swap fights where you can stay near the other tank... Feng, Gara'jal (after getting out of the banish) Blade Lord as you say, and probably more. You can also use it on heavy raid damage moments where the raid is stacked: again, Feng would be a good contender here. Lei Shi as well, during a Get Away. I also like to use it on Shek'zeer, when the Dissonance Fields are about to explode, as they can be pretty nasty for random deaths.

    Make sure you're pairing it up with Zen Meditation as well so all that damage you've redirected is essentially negated. You have to cast Avert Harm first, then Zen Meditation, or the cast of Avert Harm will cancel Zen Meditation.
    Heroic Feng: Arcane and then Fire Phase
    Heroic SpiritBinder: Used when I come back up and the other tank is in need of a CD it will then be up at the end if I need to soak damage on the raid from the shadowbolts.
    Heroic Elegon: I pop this during the add transitions just to prevent healers from getting raped by the melee.

    Imperial Vizier: First Platform while everyone is somewhat stacked in the bubble, then at the end phase
    Heroic Blade Lord: On the 4th Unseen Strike with Zen then using it in the second phase, because it is up again once we move down to the opposite side after slipstream.
    Garalon: Soaking some of the damage after Crush from Melee and my other tank
    Heroic Windlord: During Rain of Blades while I am only tanking one add group and the boss.
    Amber Shaper: If I see an explosion might go off, and then at the end since we are all stacked.
    Grand Empress: During the first Puddle explosion then on the second phase 1 puddle explosion soaking damage from the melee and my other tank.

    Tsulong: During Dark Phase while I am not tanking.
    Lei Shi: During the push out of the room ability.
    Sha of Fear: While on the platform

    Yea I press it about 2 times every fight. I am just aware of when it is probably best to use it. So used to watching back in DS when I had a raid cooldown as a Bear.

  8. #1728
    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckage827 View Post
    Yea I press it about 2 times every fight. I am just aware of when it is probably best to use it. So used to watching back in DS when I had a raid cooldown as a Bear.
    I hope we get a set bonus like that next tier or in the final raid of the expansion. I regularly ran LFR as Blood DK (because why not) and casting Vampiric Blood on the entire raid when AOE healing was obviously going out always felt awesome.
    Praise the Quest Writers for they give life to otherwise boring expansions.
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  9. #1729
    Just wondering if anyone has any other tips they feel like sharing for the Elegon fight. I already know we should glyph Guard for this fight since the Guard from statue can help protect the raid from a lot of magic damage as well as our own Guard protecting us. The other change I've seen people recommend is taking off Dampen Harm and using Diffuse Magic. Any other pointers the veterans wanna share? It's our first real shot at Ele this Sunday and I wanna give us the best shot possible. Thanks!

  10. #1730
    Quote Originally Posted by thedr8993 View Post
    Just wondering if anyone has any other tips they feel like sharing for the Elegon fight. I already know we should glyph Guard for this fight since the Guard from statue can help protect the raid from a lot of magic damage as well as our own Guard protecting us. The other change I've seen people recommend is taking off Dampen Harm and using Diffuse Magic. Any other pointers the veterans wanna share? It's our first real shot at Ele this Sunday and I wanna give us the best shot possible. Thanks!
    I actually never glyphed guard because elegons melee attacks hit pretty hard right after the breath. I also save my fortifying brew to grab aggro on all the small adds with a SCK to make sure none of my healers die. Drag them in the bubble and toss out a stun. Jump out reset stack and taunt boss.

  11. #1731
    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckage827 View Post
    I actually never glyphed guard because elegons melee attacks hit pretty hard right after the breath. I also save my fortifying brew to grab aggro on all the small adds with a SCK to make sure none of my healers die. Drag them in the bubble and toss out a stun. Jump out reset stack and taunt boss.
    Good to know, thanks!

  12. #1732
    Quote Originally Posted by Wreckage827 View Post
    I actually never glyphed guard because elegons melee attacks hit pretty hard right after the breath. I also save my fortifying brew to grab aggro on all the small adds with a SCK to make sure none of my healers die. Drag them in the bubble and toss out a stun. Jump out reset stack and taunt boss.
    I thought of this but, you still have 40%+ avoidance without elusive brew, and guard gets buffed 10% with the glyph.

    The magic damage really hurts on heroic, especially with the add outside AOEing before he explodes.

    To deal with the adds, ask the other tank to grab the boss for a sec, while you kite the adds through the boss (use dizzying haze to keep aggro on the mobs while running) and you run out the opposite end, then taunt the boss off the tank, while he takes the add.
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  13. #1733
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    I'd say you can consider the replies to this thread the debates section, to be honest. :P We're actively discussing stuff here, or at least answering questions.
    As interested as i am, i have no time to read 80+ pages of comments. this is not lazyness, it is a lack of available time.
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  14. #1734
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlehoff View Post
    As interested as i am, i have no time to read 80+ pages of comments. this is not lazyness, it is a lack of available time.
    I'd say the expected reaction is to ask repeat questions within a few page margin. Especially considering the answers occasionally change with each hotfix/patch.
    Praise the Quest Writers for they give life to otherwise boring expansions.
    I was wrong about Blizzcon 2014 having nothing interesting to show off: There's a Robot Monk!

  15. #1735
    Quote Originally Posted by TheWindWalker View Post
    I'd say the expected reaction is to ask repeat questions within a few page margin. Especially considering the answers occasionally change with each hotfix/patch.
    understandable, but i dont want to be THAT GUY who gets told "we awnsered that 2 pages ago noob"

    >.<

    i just think it would be more convieient if the "debates" section was fleshed in a bit more so we at least knew the basics, then i could filter the replies by the subject im interested in.
    Till water is gone, Till shade is gone. Into the shadow with teeth bared, screaming defiance with the last breath. To spit in Sightblinders eye on the last day.

  16. #1736
    Quote Originally Posted by Kazlehoff View Post
    understandable, but i dont want to be THAT GUY who gets told "we awnsered that 2 pages ago noob"

    >.<

    i just think it would be more convieient if the "debates" section was fleshed in a bit more so we at least knew the basics, then i could filter the replies by the subject im interested in.
    There's a search function. If you want to look solely at a thread, it's there on the top right hand side of the page, above the page navigation. Type in "Elegon" for example, and all replies with Elegon in it should appear.
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  17. #1737
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    May be worth noting...

    The datamining was correct, although it's not in the patch notes the damage needed to get a Statue guard is now 1/2 was it was ! I copied my monk across and it's 486,640 on live and 243,320 on PTR, shield strength remains exactly the same. Mastery is also a small but noticable buff, went from 5.3% to 6.6%, nothing ground breaking but hey, any buff is nice .
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  18. #1738
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    May be worth noting...

    The datamining was correct, although it's not in the patch notes the damage needed to get a Statue guard is now 1/2 was it was ! I copied my monk across and it's 486,640 on live and 243,320 on PTR, shield strength remains exactly the same. Mastery is also a small but noticable buff, went from 5.3% to 6.6%, nothing ground breaking but hey, any buff is nice .
    That's pretty silly. The ox statue is already very strong, and doesn't really need a buff. We don't have a real raid cooldown, but the constant guards easily make up for that.

  19. #1739
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    The datamining was correct, although it's not in the patch notes the damage needed to get a Statue guard is now 1/2 was it was ! I copied my monk across and it's 486,640 on live and 243,320 on PTR, shield strength remains exactly the same. Mastery is also a small but noticable buff, went from 5.3% to 6.6%, nothing ground breaking but hey, any buff is nice .
    This... what the... errrrr... ok no one use their statue on the PTR so Blizz wont notice how huge that change is lol. I think on Empress my statue did 7.3mil healing so that is going to jump up to 14.6 in 5.2?

    Mastery is just a buff to the base static value not an improvement in the scaling of rating right?

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  20. #1740
    Legendary! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    This... what the... errrrr... ok no one use their statue on the PTR so Blizz wont notice how huge that change is lol. I think on Empress my statue did 7.3mil healing so that is going to jump up to 14.6 in 5.2?

    Mastery is just a buff to the base static value not an improvement in the scaling of rating right?
    well it might not be THAT cut and dry... but pretty much yeah, I'm guessing they'll tweak it a BIT. Either that or there is ALOT of AoE in ToT and they want us to be super awesome tanks there

    No Mastery is a rating buff, we get 25% more mastery per point of rating now. So the base has gone from 4 to 5% and using me as an example I went from 1.32 to 1.65% mastery from rating. As I said before it's not a zomfg shamazing buff, but it DOES mean that the little Mastery we don't reforge away will be that little bit better from next patch, which is always nice.
    Reading A Song of Ice and Fire is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere, shoots the puppy and punches you in the face.

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