1. #1881
    High Overlord
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggety View Post
    Keg smash misses suck, but the likelihood of losing shuffle due to a series of parries at 7.5% expertise is pretty remote. At worst, you will have a bad string at the beginning of a fight, but boss damage tends not to be super front-loaded entirely because active mitigation is such a big part of tanking now. If you are off-tanking at all, shuffle uptime becomes a non-issue at 7.5% expertise because you can dps behind the boss in most fights and negate parry entirely for that portion.
    This is why I love being a BrM, you are so versatile in your role and you can gear and shuffle stats around to help complement your group (pun not originally intended). I think in this discussion there is a place for both math and personal anecdotes, as each raid group and boss fight differ from one to the next. For example, I got myself to a comfortable level of haste and crit (although crit is one of those things we just cant have too much of), and tried to gear towards the exp hard cap to put out more dps for our raid. This is because at times our group struggles to reach enrage timers and my personal dps is a huge help to downing bosses. But I feel like our dps is using my dps as a crutch, so I've gone back to the soft caps and reforged more for haste and crit.

    I understand the reasoning behind each option of gearing, but its all about picking what works for you and meshes with your group; which has been advocated but I think is worth repeating. If your group has pro dps, but are slacking on the healing front, you can gem/reforge/gear for more mitigation and survivability, as well as vice versa. I think we are better at doing this than any of the other tanking classes, and it's more noticeable to outsiders.

    Blizzard has done awesome by me by expanding the role of a 'tank', and giving BrMs an incredibly high ceiling with which to maximize my potential. I have pulled off things with my BrM that I would have been hard pressed to do on my warrior or pally. It's all about adapting the math to your specific situation, and gearing for what works for you and your raid group.

    I believe each story is valid, but unfortunately it's up to the individual to determine what is more valid for them the majority of the time, if that makes any sense.

    Gynshon's previous post just helped what I'm trying to say.
    I'd rather have a bottle in front of me than a frontal lobotomy.

  2. #1882
    Quick question, is it better to go with a set of one-handers or a two-hander?

  3. #1883
    Ultimately the differences between DW and 2h are fairly minor. There's a higher chance of stacks dropping via 2h (since you're attacking slower and for more stacks per proc), but I haven't really noticed a big enough difference between them for one to be viable and one to not be such. DW this tier however does have the better stat budget for us, at least in terms of raid gear.

  4. #1884
    lol as a new monk,

    "I have no idea what i'm doing"
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    I hear people say bring War back to World of Warcraft, well how about bringing World back to World of Warcraft

  5. #1885
    Quote Originally Posted by Saracens View Post
    Quick question, is it better to go with a set of one-handers or a two-hander?
    As noted above, there is a minor stat differential between staves/polearms and 1h weapons, with 2h having higher stamina and mastery (grrrr) and the 1h weapons being better itemized for agility, haste and crit. The differences are minor, though.

    The major difference is that only one other class is interested in a Gao'rei whereas both rogues and enhance shaman will want your fist weapons. Meaning you will have an easier time picking up the 2h weapons due to less competition and only needing one weapon instead of two.

  6. #1886
    I see, good to know. Thanks for the info guys.

  7. #1887
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Biggety View Post
    The major difference is that only one other class is interested in a Gao'rei whereas both rogues and enhance shaman will want your fist weapons. Meaning you will have an easier time picking up the 2h weapons due to less competition and only needing one weapon instead of two.
    Depends on your raid comp. My 10m always had a rogue and no feral druids so the staff was mine by default, now I'm in a 25m with only an Enh Shaman wanting the 1h so I ended up getting the last Empress Claw that dropped as we have a handful of druids praying for staff drops. Totally depends on your raid comp.

    I much prefer DW though mostly for how Elusive Brew stacks generate, and I believe for bot BrM and WW it is slightly higher DPS.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  8. #1888
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarmon View Post
    I know that BoK still applies shuffle, it's nice but not like Death Strike which can't even be parried.

    Parry isn't just Chi generation, it effects all your attacks. Same as hit.
    If Chi gen is the only argument to not go for expertise then why even bother with hit, it nets the exact same Chi.
    I'm fairly certain if you have 0% hit you won't generate Gift of the Ox orbs, or very, very few of them. Not to mention no EB stacks. So in this case, for BrM monks at least, capping exp and no hit rating is not equivalent to 7.5% on both.

  9. #1889
    Okay, this might have been discuss ninety or so pages ago but what do you guys do with healing spheres? I just hit 90 so haven't done any high end raids yet, but it feels down right wrong to side step around to pick them up. Boss positioning is really important and I don't want to piss off any melee. So do you guys run around picking them up when you get low?
    Quote Originally Posted by adam86shadow View Post
    I hear people say bring War back to World of Warcraft, well how about bringing World back to World of Warcraft

  10. #1890
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    reforge lite since it ignores gems
    Last I checked (last night, when I was reforging my characters), it actually does use gems. If it didn't take gems into consideration, your character would be over the hit/exp break points that you set (if you're using hit/exp gems at all).

    As far as the 7.5% to 15% expertise values... I used 7.5% for a long time, mostly because I would swap to WW for 1 tank fights, and went with 15% last night. I noticed a HUGE difference in my energy regen due to the lower haste because of the reforging for 15% not to mention lower EB procs/uptime due to lower crit rating. I'm reforging back to 7.5% tonight and getting my haste back up over 7k. Then again, I'm also doing 25H fights. So it might be different for 10 mans, who knows.



  11. #1891
    Quote Originally Posted by PlatedPriest View Post
    Okay, this might have been discuss ninety or so pages ago but what do you guys do with healing spheres? I just hit 90 so haven't done any high end raids yet, but it feels down right wrong to side step around to pick them up. Boss positioning is really important and I don't want to piss off any melee. So do you guys run around picking them up when you get low?
    I pick them up when I'm a bit low on HP and need them. You get used to being able to move without moving the boss beyond turning it slightly. Sure, you may have some slight issues while getting used to it, but in the end you'll be able to do quick side steps, pick up the orbs, and the melee won't ever know the difference.

  12. #1892
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by promdate View Post
    Last I checked (last night, when I was reforging my characters), it actually does use gems. If it didn't take gems into consideration, your character would be over the hit/exp break points that you set (if you're using hit/exp gems at all).
    Probably need to phrase that a bit more clear. I mean it doesn't try to change your gems based on stat weights, so reaching Hit/Expertise caps it will use what you currently have and then try to work with the reforge options only to reach the caps.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  13. #1893
    Yeah, AFAIK only Wowreforge and ReforgeLite don't change your gems. They just use what you currently have in the slots. Only AMR will change gems.



  14. #1894
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedr8993 View Post
    I'm fairly certain if you have 0% hit you won't generate Gift of the Ox orbs, or very, very few of them. Not to mention no EB stacks. So in this case, for BrM monks at least, capping exp and no hit rating is not equivalent to 7.5% on both.
    Single roll system...EB isn't affected by hit/exp.

  15. #1895
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    Single roll system...EB isn't affected by hit/exp.
    umm... but if you don't hit...how can you crit...?

    indirect effect, but I believe an effect nonetheless.

  16. #1896
    Quote Originally Posted by thedr8993 View Post
    umm... but if you don't hit...how can you crit...?

    indirect effect, but I believe an effect nonetheless.
    That only applies to yellow attacks.

    White hits you have an x% chance to miss / dodge / parry, a y% chance for it to simply hit, and a z% chance for it to crit. Since EB is generated purely from white hits, the idea that hit and expertise benefit it is a fallacy.

  17. #1897
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    That only applies to yellow attacks.

    White hits you have an x% chance to miss / dodge / parry, a y% chance for it to simply hit, and a z% chance for it to crit. Since EB is generated purely from white hits, the idea that hit and expertise benefit it is a fallacy.
    ooooo tyvm!

    So is it not true that hit rating past 7.5% improves white hits?

  18. #1898
    That depends on the weapon you're using. If you use a 2-handed weapon, your white hits will always hit (besides dodge/parry which comes from expertise) once you're at 7.5% hit. If you dual wield, your hitcap would be higher, so hit above 7.5%, while not being recommended (as yellow-hits only need 7.5%) would still net you a slight dps/threat increase. But not worth taking over other stats.

  19. #1899
    Quote Originally Posted by Elendoil View Post
    That depends on the weapon you're using. If you use a 2-handed weapon, your white hits will always hit (besides dodge/parry which comes from expertise) once you're at 7.5% hit. If you dual wield, your hitcap would be higher, so hit above 7.5%, while not being recommended (as yellow-hits only need 7.5%) would still net you a slight dps/threat increase. But not worth taking over other stats.
    ahhh ok. So many stats to keep track of I was getting the dw and 2h crossed. Thanks for clarification.

  20. #1900
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    White hits you have an x% chance to miss / dodge / parry, a y% chance for it to simply hit, and a z% chance for it to crit. Since EB is generated purely from white hits, the idea that hit and expertise benefit it is a fallacy.
    Basically for white hits the only time you would need to worry about Hit/Expertise holding you back here would be if you ended up with such an massive amount of Crit % that it started bumping against the miss/dodge/parry part of the table. Which basically will never happen currently even with 0% hit/expertise.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

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