1. #3781
    Quote Originally Posted by Ampere View Post
    Source? I was under the impression it applied to all bonus rolls. Patch notes:
    It still doesn't work. I roll every week, and still get gold every week. They can say all they want, doesn't mean it's true. Going and using Elder Charms though, I get a ton of gear. Rolling in heroic on my main, gold gold gold gold gold gold gold gold gold....you would think by now the protection would kick in.

    I swear I remember seeing a blue post that it only applied to LFR though and later would apply to current.

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  2. #3782
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    Quote Originally Posted by Apoulsen View Post
    This is so true, I have never seen it drop even once.
    Not even on normal, and I coin every single week..
    The first night we killed Heroic Ji-Kun, the belt dropped. The rogue with a 522 belt won it while I still had my 502 version. Kinda pissed me off, but meh. Hopefully another one will drop, but I do feel your pain.
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  3. #3783
    Any chance we can get the front post updated to 5.3? There's a few things that could be changed up there.

  4. #3784
    Deleted
    I would like to actually stay on topic here and express my views on the matter of the legendary meta gem in a 25m situation.

    I know a lot of you don't like the tanking gem and choose the dps one for an extra 10% dps. I can understand in a 10m situation where that extra 10% can make a lot of difference that it's worth going with the dps gem. However, I'm currently raiding 25m and we're on 9/13 with an average ilvl of 535. This pretty much means we're overgearing the content and our dps is not really an issue in it's own right. The main reasons we wipe are tactic fails, we have never run into (soft)enrage issues with the whole raid alive and following the correct strategy. There have been extremely few wipes where me doing 10% more dps would have changed the outcome. On the other hand, it is not unusual in our raids for tanks to occasionally die. When tanks die, stuff can get real ugly real fast. This is where the tanking meta gem does help.

    I know the argument against the tanking gem is that if you can't survive without the meta gem, you can't count on surviving anything WITH the meta gem. This argument is valid but at the same time, tanks still die. I've found that as long as I'm being hit, the gem has an uptime of around 40-50% which means that for 40-50% of the time the chances of me dying are a lot smaller. At the same time, I have a weak aura for the gem buff so I know when it's up. This allows me to use my active mitigation based on whether the gem buff is active. I can choose to hold off on my EB if I see I still have some time left on my buff. I can choose to pop EB at 6 stacks when I see I don't have the gem buff active. This means that even if I don't have the gem buff active, I still somewhat profit from it because I have a higher uptime of EB during the time I don't have the gem buff. In a similar fashion the buff can allow me to hold off on using a major cooldown for a big attack when I see my gem just procced (quite useful on a fight like primordius or megaera).

    I think that just because the mitigation is random, doesn't make it useless. It is the same argument you can make for pala/war/dk about crit vs parry. As far as I know, most of them still choose to go for parry.

  5. #3785
    Tank deaths can be solved by other means than the meta, while getting that much dps from sources other than gear is tricky, to say the least. If you have problems with staying alive, no one's preventing you from using the tanking gem; but those same problems can be fixed by tweaking strategies, improving healing or simply playing better.

  6. #3786
    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    It still doesn't work. I roll every week, and still get gold every week. They can say all they want, doesn't mean it's true. Going and using Elder Charms though, I get a ton of gear. Rolling in heroic on my main, gold gold gold gold gold gold gold gold gold....you would think by now the protection would kick in.

    I swear I remember seeing a blue post that it only applied to LFR though and later would apply to current.
    Maybe you have really bad luck? It's hard for us to really prove if it's on or not without Blizzard's data. Seems like a pointless thing to lie about from their end.

    Elder Charms for 5.0 raids have a 30% chance to reward loot, they buffed that. Mogu Runes for 5.2 content have 15% chance. I'm pretty sure those are the correct numbers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mudgy View Post
    I would like to actually stay on topic here and express my views on the matter of the legendary meta gem in a 25m situation.

    I know a lot of you don't like the tanking gem and choose the dps one for an extra 10% dps. I can understand in a 10m situation where that extra 10% can make a lot of difference that it's worth going with the dps gem. However, I'm currently raiding 25m and we're on 9/13 with an average ilvl of 535. This pretty much means we're overgearing the content and our dps is not really an issue in it's own right. The main reasons we wipe are tactic fails, we have never run into (soft)enrage issues with the whole raid alive and following the correct strategy. There have been extremely few wipes where me doing 10% more dps would have changed the outcome. On the other hand, it is not unusual in our raids for tanks to occasionally die. When tanks die, stuff can get real ugly real fast. This is where the tanking meta gem does help.

    I know the argument against the tanking gem is that if you can't survive without the meta gem, you can't count on surviving anything WITH the meta gem. This argument is valid but at the same time, tanks still die. I've found that as long as I'm being hit, the gem has an uptime of around 40-50% which means that for 40-50% of the time the chances of me dying are a lot smaller. At the same time, I have a weak aura for the gem buff so I know when it's up. This allows me to use my active mitigation based on whether the gem buff is active. I can choose to hold off on my EB if I see I still have some time left on my buff. I can choose to pop EB at 6 stacks when I see I don't have the gem buff active. This means that even if I don't have the gem buff active, I still somewhat profit from it because I have a higher uptime of EB during the time I don't have the gem buff. In a similar fashion the buff can allow me to hold off on using a major cooldown for a big attack when I see my gem just procced (quite useful on a fight like primordius or megaera).

    I think that just because the mitigation is random, doesn't make it useless. It is the same argument you can make for pala/war/dk about crit vs parry. As far as I know, most of them still choose to go for parry.
    As you're saying, the 20% reduction is random and it's only physical damage so it's like a mastery proc. Are you fully reforged for mastery if your concern is taking too much damage? Why not get 10k mastery and take the dps meta, that way you take less damage all the time and do more damage from the meta. If you are fully reforged/gemmed for mastery and using the tank meta, well at least you are consistent.

    Random mitigation isn't useless, but it's random and therefore unreliable. 10% dps increase is not random and is reliable.

  7. #3787
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    Quote Originally Posted by gynshon View Post
    It still doesn't work. I roll every week, and still get gold every week. They can say all they want, doesn't mean it's true. Going and using Elder Charms though, I get a ton of gear. Rolling in heroic on my main, gold gold gold gold gold gold gold gold gold....you would think by now the protection would kick in.

    I swear I remember seeing a blue post that it only applied to LFR though and later would apply to current.
    I call BS on the elder charms. My alts use them every week, even farm the treasure room for more each week and all they get is gold, gold, gold. They've been stuck at il490 for like ever now.

    And I get nothing but heroic loot I already have on my main

  8. #3788
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    Heyheyhey! Long time no speak fellow followers of the ways of the brew!

    So I've been gone since about 5.1 and I'll soon be back on WoW (I just can't seem to stay away)..

    I figured my first stop will be here, so y'all can catch me up on the ways of the brew...

    Here's my Panda
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Daruma/simple

    Just need a heads up on a few things:

    Is Hit/Expertise to whichever cap you like>Haste till you're good for Chi>stack AALLLLLL the crit still the reforge Prio?
    Are my talents still viable?
    which Meta should I take from the Legendary Questline, which I'll be starting shortly
    anything else I should know
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  9. #3789
    Quote Originally Posted by Gallahadd View Post
    Heyheyhey! Long time no speak fellow followers of the ways of the brew!

    So I've been gone since about 5.1 and I'll soon be back on WoW (I just can't seem to stay away)..

    I figured my first stop will be here, so y'all can catch me up on the ways of the brew...

    Here's my Panda
    http://eu.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Daruma/simple

    Just need a heads up on a few things:

    Is Hit/Expertise to whichever cap you like>Haste till you're good for Chi>stack AALLLLLL the crit still the reforge Prio?
    Are my talents still viable?
    which Meta should I take from the Legendary Questline, which I'll be starting shortly
    anything else I should know
    My personal opinions:
    - accuracy stats are the best possible stats for both damage and survival up until cap, ahead of agility and stamina even.
    - haste is the worst possible stat in any situation with no exceptions
    - mastery is good for surviving, crit is good for damage. Find a balance that you're comfortable with in the situation you're in - some tanks like 0 mastery (glass cannon), some like 15k (harder to kill).
    - dps meta > tanking meta. As mentioned earlier, you can reforge a few thousand crit to mastery and end up with more consistent survival and more damage.
    - all talents are "viable" in that there's going to be a "best" choice for each fight, and the "best" choice varies from fight to fight. Just get used to bringing a few stacks of tomes with you and swapping talents around between fights.

  10. #3790
    Deleted
    Quote Originally Posted by Crevan View Post
    Tank deaths can be solved by other means than the meta, while getting that much dps from sources other than gear is tricky, to say the least. If you have problems with staying alive, no one's preventing you from using the tanking gem; but those same problems can be fixed by tweaking strategies, improving healing or simply playing better.
    If you're playing in a guild where everybody plays perfectly and you're undergeared for the content, the dps meta would be the better choice. This is why I explained my situation where none of that applies and where dps issues are more easily fixed than tank deaths. I think I'm not the only one in this situation so I just wanted to share my views on the matter. Again I'll mention the fact that this is for 25m, if I were doing 10m I'd probably go for more dps.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ampere View Post
    As you're saying, the 20% reduction is random and it's only physical damage so it's like a mastery proc. Are you fully reforged for mastery if your concern is taking too much damage? Why not get 10k mastery and take the dps meta, that way you take less damage all the time and do more damage from the meta. If you are fully reforged/gemmed for mastery and using the tank meta, well at least you are consistent.

    Random mitigation isn't useless, but it's random and therefore unreliable. 10% dps increase is not random and is reliable.
    I am actually fully reforged and gemmed for mastery and there have been moments where that gem has prevented me from dying. The unreliability is really not so bad since you can work around it to a degree.

  11. #3791
    Quote Originally Posted by Mudgy View Post
    If you're playing in a guild where everybody plays perfectly and you're undergeared for the content, the dps meta would be the better choice. This is why I explained my situation where none of that applies and where dps issues are more easily fixed than tank deaths. I think I'm not the only one in this situation so I just wanted to share my views on the matter. Again I'll mention the fact that this is for 25m, if I were doing 10m I'd probably go for more dps.

    I am actually fully reforged and gemmed for mastery and there have been moments where that gem has prevented me from dying. The unreliability is really not so bad since you can work around it to a degree.
    To each their own. I stopped debating points like this because thankfully I am not in terribad guilds where there is actually a choice between the two and I choose one because my healers fail. But I do sympathize with the people that are, and maybe the tank meta is a good choice for them to help cover the shortcomings of their healing team.

    Each person needs to make up their own mind with regards on what to use, and you already have. I thank you for posting your insights because it might help others in the same position.

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  12. #3792
    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    My personal opinions:
    - accuracy stats are the best possible stats for both damage and survival up until cap, ahead of agility and stamina even.
    - haste is the worst possible stat in any situation with no exceptions
    - mastery is good for surviving, crit is good for damage. Find a balance that you're comfortable with in the situation you're in - some tanks like 0 mastery (glass cannon), some like 15k (harder to kill).
    - dps meta > tanking meta. As mentioned earlier, you can reforge a few thousand crit to mastery and end up with more consistent survival and more damage.
    - all talents are "viable" in that there's going to be a "best" choice for each fight, and the "best" choice varies from fight to fight. Just get used to bringing a few stacks of tomes with you and swapping talents around between fights.
    The above hints towards a 25man raiding background, if you are playing in 25man, go for it, and follow what he said.

    If you play 10man, things are different.

    First of all, in a 10m setting Haste is not your worst stat, Mastery is. 10m bosses hit light enough for you to be an effective "glass cannon" tank. Your gear at first will hedge to about 10k+ crit, and your haste + mastery equalling ~ 7k. The more gear you get, the more your mastery will decrease and your haste and crit will increase (assuming proper pieces).

    The reason why Mastery is not needed in 10mans is because the t15 set will effectively give you an on-demand 11k mastery buff(12% stagger) for whenever you want. For 25mans, this is sometimes not enough, for 10mans, it always is.

    Everything is pretty much spot on, your Meta likewise should be Capacitative unless you severely undergear the content.

    Lastly, there are a few things to be said about your t6 talents for various fights. On Megaera, Durumu, Primordius and Horridon, do not use Xuen, and instead go for Rushing Jade Wind, or Chi Torpedo*. The only fight where Chi Torpedo (Take with celerity) may be useful, is Megaera, if you are struggling with it on the healing side, and need an extra hand. Other than this, all your talents work in the same way except for the fact that Tiger's Lust whose Chi Cost has been removed so it has more appeal now and is my personal default T1 talent.

  13. #3793
    Titan Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Cool, thanks Zonex and Kaiadam.

    I am gunna be raiding 10man and occasionally LFR if bored, but thanks for the info on both types.

    time to get monking!
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  14. #3794
    posted a while back regarding trinkets but i forgot to check the replays.. hehe cant find it now..

    so sorry for asking again but here it goes..

    agi trinkets vs secondary stats? what is preffered? agi trinkets with secondary proc or vice versa?

    also is there no point in going mastery for 10man? even if the group already has insane dps?
    Last edited by Sunnydee; 2013-06-16 at 02:24 AM.
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  15. #3795
    Quote Originally Posted by kittycovox View Post
    posted a while back regarding trinkets but i forgot to check the replays.. hehe cant find it now..

    so sorry for asking again but here it goes..

    agi trinkets vs secondary stats? what is preffered? agi trinkets with secondary proc or vice versa?

    also is there no point in going mastery for 10man? even if the group already has insane dps?



    Mastery on 10m:

    It's a flowchart, sorta.

    Am I dying?
    Yes > Maybe some stam and mastery would help me ....
    No > Maybe I don't need any stam or mastery since I'm never really dying

    Are we doing bleeding edge heroic progression?
    Yes > Some people tend to use stam/mastery to help in bleeding edge heroic progression, maybe I should get some ....
    No > Prior precedent says I wont really benefit much from stats that we clearly don't need at our current level of progression.

    Is my health really spikey / Do I feel like I'm constantly in danger of dying / Am I giving my healers heart-attacks or causing them to be mana inefficient?
    Yes > Maybe some stam and mastery would help me ....
    No > Stam / Mastery are deadweight stats that don't provide any real value beyond leveling out spikes and stopping you from dying.




    For BrM, these are the trinkets I like:
    Jin'rok
    VP trinket (If it can be used without going over hitcap and you're not doing heroics)
    agi/mastery from council (IF you're using mastery else it's garbage)
    haste trinket from pimordius (IF you're like me and like haste, or care to incorporate it into your haste-planning and don't have other better trinkets)
    RoR from lei shen (IF you're going crit route, it's not good for haste route or mastery route if anything but crit is your highest stat don't use it)

    As far as HOW you extrapolate these types of conclusions: It's easy, any given stat is "worth" a certain amount of "points" on most websites that calculate gear-values. Agi might be worth 10 points, a secondary stat might be worth 5, but usually, as with gems, you get twice as much secondary stat as you do primary stat, so if it's 10 for agi and 5 for crit, it's an "either or" situation. If it's >=5.1 for crit, crit is worth more on any item where you're choosing between 100agi and 200crit. These numbers are made up, check AMR and the like or the sticky.

    ---------- Post added 2013-06-15 at 09:38 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by kaiadam View Post
    My personal opinions:
    - accuracy stats are the best possible stats for both damage and survival up until cap, ahead of agility and stamina even.
    - haste is the worst possible stat in any situation with no exceptions
    - mastery is good for surviving, crit is good for damage. Find a balance that you're comfortable with in the situation you're in - some tanks like 0 mastery (glass cannon), some like 15k (harder to kill).
    - dps meta > tanking meta. As mentioned earlier, you can reforge a few thousand crit to mastery and end up with more consistent survival and more damage.
    - all talents are "viable" in that there's going to be a "best" choice for each fight, and the "best" choice varies from fight to fight. Just get used to bringing a few stacks of tomes with you and swapping talents around between fights.
    Isn't it a contradiction to acknowledge tanks that avoid mastery like the plague and say haste is the worst stat in all situations?

    It's impossible to avoid mastery and not end up with a ton of haste as a byproduct. Other than that, I agree with everything here.

  16. #3796
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trendy-Ideology View Post
    It's impossible to avoid mastery and not end up with a ton of haste as a byproduct. Other than that, I agree with everything here.
    Depends on your gear really. I go hit/exp/crit >>>>> haste > mastery and only ended up with 5k haste vs my 16k crit. Not quite the "ton of haste" you're talking about. Only reason why I prefer haste over mastery is because I don't need mastery at all, and haste increases dps slightly (auto-attacks and rppm mostly).

  17. #3797
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    Haste is also about 1/3 as effective as crit at EB. Why don't people just replace "300 haste" in their heads with "100 crit".

  18. #3798
    To the person complaining they aren't getting anything from Mogu rubes but they are from the greater charms. You do realize your loot protection is being used on the the Greater charms right? They share the same protection.

    On trinkets I've only heard bad things for RoRo on BrM for a number of reasons. I would imagine the agility/haste from Primordius and Jin'Rokhs trinket being BiS.
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  19. #3799
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    Quote Originally Posted by Araya View Post
    To the person complaining they aren't getting anything from Mogu rubes but they are from the greater charms. You do realize your loot protection is being used on the the Greater charms right? They share the same protection.

    On trinkets I've only heard bad things for RoRo on BrM for a number of reasons. I would imagine the agility/haste from Primordius and Jin'Rokhs trinket being BiS.
    Badjuju and Jinrock one reforge mastery to crit or EXP if low and proc is great
    Primordius can make you energy cap and give you almost useless proc IMO

  20. #3800
    Quote Originally Posted by Araya View Post
    To the person complaining they aren't getting anything from Mogu rubes but they are from the greater charms. You do realize your loot protection is being used on the the Greater charms right? They share the same protection.

    On trinkets I've only heard bad things for RoRo on BrM for a number of reasons. I would imagine the agility/haste from Primordius and Jin'Rokhs trinket being BiS.
    I don't know where you heard the Primordius Trinket was BiS, personally wouldn't be caught dead using it. RoR or Bad Juju with Renataki's are pretty much the best options (if you get them).

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