1. #4481
    Grunt
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    It seems that I am the only BrM that uses Retreat glyph for cases with threat issues. With glyph, you can enjoy full vengeance for dmg, just keep in mind that roll is not for moving :-).

  2. #4482
    Stood in the Fire Yorgl's Avatar
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    Well that's the HUGE problem : having to forget roll otherwise...
    I'd rather have a pal HoSalv me, or switch to tiger stance (that's what I usually do) for a few seconds. Especially that, unlike warriors or druids, we don't lose Vengeance while stance dancing.

  3. #4483
    Hello Brewmaster Community! My name is Maximum/Maximonk from <Duality> on Zul'jin. I rarely post on forums, but I saw a lot of information I wanted to comment on while stumbliung across this after being up all night.

    Brewmaster is my OFF SPEC of my alt monk(Which I did play for a few fights on progression) but I have tanked for the guild in the past and am tanking going into next teir. Like I said I Had mained windwalker from about 2months ago when we picked up a good tank recruit But as of this week it looks like i'm to end up tanking progression again. For some background I have put up 21 rank one brewmaster parses this teir and held them on 11/13 bosses(All of which have been beaten by now) in 25h when I actually played Brewmaster a good 2-3 months ago.

    To answer some questions that people where having trouble with, I do agree with Bryce(I was an officer in a guild Bryce came too briefly prior to coming to duality) that crit and mastery both have its uses, but even in a next teir stand point if I do decide to play my monk instead of guardian I will be running crit/mastery equal with crit ahead for rune proc and very little haste for almost every progression boss except for a few fights(Ie General nazgrim, garrosh, Maybe siegecrafter) as the crit is as it looks way undervalued in this thread when it comes to its mitigation especially with the great even though nerfed t15 2 piece. Mastery is really only needed on those few fights where you can get gibbed, and the extra damage and raidwide rape you can put out with a crit build is too good to put stats into mastery which gives no raid healing or damage. From a 25H loot standpoint the dps is ALWAYS going to get gear first in a good guild, unless a tank 2 or 4 piece is very optimal. Which in this case is not true. Our 2 and 4 piece next teir are so weak, the 2 piece actually benefits more from crit and doing good damage, and the 4 piece IMO is Garbage. You have to alter your playstyle to even make it very effective(dipping on purpose with stagger just to make it overheal less) which quite obviously is NOT worth it.

    As far as gearing goes, there are a lot of really good off pieces for every slot and in a 25h raid you're pretty much last on the totem pole for gear that isnt going to be a bigger raid dps increase than it going to a dps. My biggest advice anyone delving into progression next teir is to keep your double upgraded 543 t15 teir and have all 5 pieces ready and throw in a warforged off piece you get in the first week or something. You really are going to need heroic teir to even be worth upgrading, and in my case i'll probably end up just getting full off pieces when its all said and done because our teir right now is pretty much complete dogshit and is going to go to all hunters/shamans in progression over you.

  4. #4484
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cormac View Post
    With glyph, you can enjoy full vengeance for dmg, just keep in mind that roll is not for moving :-).
    That is the problem I love roll and use it constantly so having to deal with a /cancelaura macro for an ability keybound to my thumb button that I hit almost reflexively isn't a keen idea for me.

    Sorta like my mage always joked if Blink has a lower CD I'd never use my legs. Blizz should introduce an indoor Segway mount =P

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  5. #4485
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    That is the problem I love roll and use it constantly so having to deal with a /cancelaura macro for an ability keybound to my thumb button that I hit almost reflexively isn't a keen idea for me.

    Sorta like my mage always joked if Blink has a lower CD I'd never use my legs. Blizz should introduce an indoor Segway mount =P
    Agree. I roll everywhere in pretty much every fight this tier. A little management of our own abilities can prevent threat issues with equal gearing.

    Sig made by Shyama. Click sig for current Warlock armory.

  6. #4486
    so, i've been trying to keep track of everything, but I'm a little slow.
    are our stats still crt if we aren't dying and mastery if we are dying ?
    this is of course looking into 5.4 progression.

  7. #4487
    High Overlord Dirtdogs's Avatar
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    More of a personal pref going into 5.4 on the Crit Vs. Mastery train than it was in the 5.3 patch of crit > everything and LOL vengeance cheesing

    Our 2pc for this tier is getting nerfed when 5.4 go live so that will undervalue crit a bit. Not to mention big damage nerfs to make crit little less tasty and the Elusive brew from Crit has been stated many times as bad mitigation and will only get worse with the 2pc nerf. The actual dodging will not help to much.

    On the contrary and why it is still a personal preference going into the heroics week of the patch is that crit still offers higher damage and we will still be competing with the DPS for some of the higher spots on the meter as long as there's still some good vengeance coming in witch there will be from the new heroic bosses.

    So it comes down to and as it has for a while now more burst mitigation or the good changes with higher crit gear and pushing more stats of having 30% dodge much of the time and bigger Self Heals, more raid guards, and more damage for getting tight enrage bosses.

    For the most part it will come down to plow through normals for a lot of the upper tier brewmasters with a crit build and DPS cape/meta. Then chaning up the cloaks and gearing for the harder 25H hitting fights where you will save the raid good time and pulls from not dieing as often even if it may be few and far between.

    Going to see how it all pans out in a few more weeks when the patch is dropped on us. But I would be collecting mastery/crit gems or uncut yellows to be swapping out on demand. Think its safe to pass the big mastery pieces off to the rogues or druids for now as we should not need more than we can reforge on to gear and gem in the Mastery Department

  8. #4488
    So our provoke in ptr still doesn't give 200% increase threat yet. Is it because of the 50% increase movement spd, its not possible to add another effect to our taunt?
    http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=115546

    Even xuen's provoke give xuen 200% increase threat.
    http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=130793

  9. #4489
    cool thanks

  10. #4490
    Field Marshal
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    its not in the tooltip but in the Effect Description:
    http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=116189
    Effect #2: Applay Aura: Taunt Value 200

    Compare with outher taunt spells like warrior taunt http://ptr.wowhead.com/spell=355#modified-by or Xuen'S

  11. #4491
    Glad they buffed RJW. Felt like garbage after they nerfed it the first time.

  12. #4492
    Piercing Corruption The caster strikes at the target, inflicting a piercing strike of 400,000 600,000 Physical damage. This attack bypasses absorption effects but can be avoided and blocked. Melee range. 1 sec cast.
    You think the 'Ignores absorption effects' includes our stagger?

    Sounds like Blizz either doesn't like us cheesing mechanics thanks to stagger or it was unintentionally bad wording/idea?

  13. #4493
    Pandaren Monk Spacebubble's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Errodien View Post
    You think the 'Ignores absorption effects' includes our stagger?

    Sounds like Blizz either doesn't like us cheesing mechanics thanks to stagger or it was unintentionally bad wording/idea?
    Stagger isn't absorb? wording sounds like power word shield, sacred shield, guard etc wont work.
    Last edited by Spacebubble; 2013-08-31 at 02:42 PM.

  14. #4494
    Quote Originally Posted by Noqr View Post
    Glad they buffed RJW. Felt like garbage after they nerfed it the first time.
    Don't forget that even if RJW ends up being a slight damage loss over Xuen and a lot of SCK, that the ability to auto attack while RJW is going is a huge difference in EB generation. For sustained aoe tanking, EB generation is pretty terrible even with a lot of crit. Especially with how amazing EB is against large groups, being able to sustain generating it is a big deal.

    Quote Originally Posted by Spacebot View Post
    Stagger isn't absorb? wording sounds like power word shield, sacred shield, guard etc wont work.
    Yeah, that's the same wording from Garajal's shadowy attack. It's just to lower the ridiculousness of healer absorbs a bit.
    Shadowy Attacks
    Gara'jal will periodically use the following attacks instead of his normal melee attacks:- Sweeping Kick- Hammer Fist- Right Cross- Left HookThese attacks inflict Shadow damage to the target and bypass any absorption effects.
    -http://www.wowhead.com/npc=60143#encounter

  15. #4495
    But shadow damage already bypasses Stagger -- it seems highly unlikely they'd make a physical attack that bypasses our armor substitute while not bypassing other classes' armor (Magic damage!). I have to assume it's bad wording or more likely Stagger functions mechanically different enough from other Absorbs that it's not included in an "Ignores absorbs" effect even though Staggered damage is listed as "Absorbed" in the combat log on hit. For example, blocks are marked as "Absorbed" in the combat log and we know they'll be exempt here.

    Of course, it's possible they didn't realize how this could effect monks or worse they know it will be unstaggerable, but feel it's fair because our high avoidance and the fact that Sacred Shield, Shield Barrier, and Blood Shield are all powerless versus this type of attack.

  16. #4496
    RJW resets your swing timer, using it improperly (mostpeople dont track swing timer) will lose up to an average of 1.5x their swing timer, which is about 3 seconds of attacking, still quite significant.

  17. #4497
    Quote Originally Posted by Skagasm View Post
    But shadow damage already bypasses Stagger -- it seems highly unlikely they'd make a physical attack that bypasses our armor substitute while not bypassing other classes' armor (Magic damage!). I have to assume it's bad wording or more likely Stagger functions mechanically different enough from other Absorbs that it's not included in an "Ignores absorbs" effect even though Staggered damage is listed as "Absorbed" in the combat log on hit. For example, blocks are marked as "Absorbed" in the combat log and we know they'll be exempt here.

    Of course, it's possible they didn't realize how this could effect monks or worse they know it will be unstaggerable, but feel it's fair because our high avoidance and the fact that Sacred Shield, Shield Barrier, and Blood Shield are all powerless versus this type of attack.
    Stagger isn't an absorb, it's a redirection. Consider it a combat log bug that it shows up as one; it would be great if they put in a new event type: Redirection. It probably doesn't bypass hand of sacrifice either or avert harm either which are also redirections.

    I think it's pretty safe to assume there won't be any mechanics that just 1 shot unlucky, correctly acting monks, and that people would be complaining extensively already; that stuff only happens to Bears.


    Quote Originally Posted by Zonex View Post
    RJW resets your swing timer, using it improperly (mostpeople dont track swing timer) will lose up to an average of 1.5x their swing timer, which is about 3 seconds of attacking, still quite significant.
    That sounds like a bug left over from it replacing a channel, as there's nothing in the RJW description that would suggest that. Especially when they're probably sitting around scratching their heads how to make this talent not suck so much, seems like they might fix that up for us if you report it. That being said, 1 swing reset here and there is a lot better than SCK's effect on your auto-attacks. But really, please bug report that.

  18. #4498
    Field Marshal diggorey's Avatar
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    Did anyone test if 2H surpasses DW in terms of DPS?

  19. #4499
    High Overlord Dirtdogs's Avatar
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    It should from more critting white damage. Now with the better itemized Siege 2h Wep. Get more choices than a bad hit/mastery or a haste/exp I think the leishen one is

  20. #4500
    On the ptr, if you're below 35%, can you spam a Glyph of Targetted Expulsion EH on other people? (within energy constraints of course)

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