1. #821
    Quote Originally Posted by paraalso View Post
    The way it's worded implies that you no longer lose power strikes times if you don't jab right after the 20 seconds is over. It says "Every 22 seconds you gain power strikes." So if that's true, it's being changed to a buff that will refresh every 22 seconds regardless of when you use it. If you are always jabbing at exactly 20 seconds, it's a nerf. If you aren't perfect with your power strikes, then it's a positive change.
    Yeah its either that or the jab requirement is dropped for a 2 second CD increase. Either one of those I'd be happy with.

    Honestly those are the only two things that make sense. If they are just adding 2 seconds to the CD and that's it, I'd have to ask why?

  2. #822
    iam 86 brewmaster atm and i am going to reach 90 asap , i want to know whats the things i want to do/know just befor reaching 90? ( i already have other 90 char , i mean dungs with bis tank gear and this stuff)

  3. #823
    Quote Originally Posted by Scarjack View Post
    Am I reading it wrong, because it doesn't seem like a nerf to me? I think its saying for about the same amount of duration as before we can generate one extra chi with ANY of our chi producers....or even maybe any attack....
    I hope they let the "summon chi orb or later use" mechanic in it.
    Having to watch a 22cd not messing up my keg smesh use when iam at 2 chi is nothing i want to watch on top of everythin else.

  4. #824
    Mechagnome chaddd's Avatar
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    Thanks for the guide. Nice gear lists!

  5. #825
    Pandaren Monk
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    I am seriously trying to give this Monk Tanking thing a good effort, as the class and everything with it appeals rather greatly to me.

    I am still a little unsure about how to set up things... So... (being only still lvl 30-ish)
    I usually start by doing a keg-smash, and use those 2 Chi to start Guard. Then alternate Jab and Tiger Palm for the buff and on a whole attempt to keep 2-3 charges of Chi up. Blackout-Kick or Expel Harm when I've lost a bit of health and there's my brew in case hard hits are coming (while waiting for better defenses to come during levelling).
    Reapply kegsmash when the debuffs run off or when I need a quick 2 chi and I have the energy.

    In general for someone who still has 60 levels left to master a class, that is mostly what I've distilled out of the thread sofar. Am I far off track or at least hitting the correct target?

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  6. #826
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Slahaldin View Post
    iam 86 brewmaster atm and i am going to reach 90 asap , i want to know whats the things i want to do/know just befor reaching 90? ( i already have other 90 char , i mean dungs with bis tank gear and this stuff)
    Try to do 89-90 in the Waste's as you can start doing the Klaxxi daily's early. Outside of that maybe doing some dungeons for JP but that is slow exp and you'll get JP doing the heroic versions anyways. I went ahead and tanked each MoP dungeon once just to complete the quests in them as they are worthless at 90.

    I would almost call some of the Weak Aura strings mandatory, go check out that thread and set some up they really help the up time of our basically mandatory buffs. I had never used any of the Aura mod's before and now I can't live without it.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  7. #827
    Quote Originally Posted by Valleera View Post
    I am seriously trying to give this Monk Tanking thing a good effort, as the class and everything with it appeals rather greatly to me.

    I am still a little unsure about how to set up things... So... (being only still lvl 30-ish)
    I usually start by doing a keg-smash, and use those 2 Chi to start Guard. Then alternate Jab and Tiger Palm for the buff and on a whole attempt to keep 2-3 charges of Chi up. Blackout-Kick or Expel Harm when I've lost a bit of health and there's my brew in case hard hits are coming (while waiting for better defenses to come during levelling).
    Reapply kegsmash when the debuffs run off or when I need a quick 2 chi and I have the energy.

    In general for someone who still has 60 levels left to master a class, that is mostly what I've distilled out of the thread sofar. Am I far off track or at least hitting the correct target?
    Assuming "when I need a quick 2 chi and I have the energy" would be essentially on cooldown, permitting that you don't waste the chi it creates and that you use BoK faaaiiiiirly often, that's correct for your level.

  8. #828
    Your stats priority is misleading most of the players who is trying to play brewmaster monk.

    If the monk reforge like what you described in the guide, the only gain is probably more energy regen/auto attacks crit for elusive brew. However, as a tank, you are suppose to take less spike damage (consistant damage). In addition, during ox stance, you have 10% passive extra energy regen. It is enough to keep your shuffle up by 100% .

    As a raid tank, Hit > Mastery > avoidance > haste > crit
    Last edited by microschemer; 2012-10-19 at 04:58 PM.

  9. #829
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by microschemer View Post
    Your stats priority is misleading most of the players who is trying to play brewmaster monk.

    If the monk reforge like what you described in the guide, the only gain is probably more energy regen/auto attacks crit for elusive brew. However, as a tank, you are suppose to take less spike damage (consistant damage). In addition, during ox stance, you have 10% passive extra energy regen. It is enough to keep your shuffle up by 100% .

    As a raid tank, Hit > Mastery > avoidance > haste > crit
    So the only thing you gain is more chi and more elusive brew, what a travesty. Please don't just post random crap like this. Sims clearly show Mastery is our worst stat for damage mitigation outside of bleeding edge progression and the rare gimmicky fight.

  10. #830
    Quote Originally Posted by microschemer View Post
    Your stats priority is misleading most of the players who is trying to play brewmaster monk.

    If the monk reforge like what you described in the guide, the only gain is probably more energy regen/auto attacks crit for elusive brew. However, as a tank, you are suppose to take less spike damage (consistant damage). In addition, during ox stance, you have 10% passive extra energy regen. It is enough to keep your shuffle up by 100% .

    As a raid tank, Hit > Mastery > avoidance > haste > crit
    Sry but you got a lot of stuff wrong ^^

    1. "It is enough to keep your shuffle up by 100%" That is right in principle, BUT you will have not enough chi to purify, you will not be able to use guard on CD, you will absolutely NEVER be able to use your tier 30 heals... and as I am doing MoV hcs, please trust me ... they are important

    2. "Hit > Mastery > avoidance > haste > crit". This stat priority misses expertise completely. It would also only be viable for melee encounters, cause you cannot stagger magic dmg. Furthermore haste and crit are always far superior to pure dodge and parry. We have to use ACTIVE mitigation, we get our avoidance from shuffle and elusive brew. Haste and crit gives us more stacks of elusive brew per minute, more chi to use BoK. It is just mathematics which tell us that these stats are better. The sims should be linked in here somewhere

  11. #831
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    On another, more on topic point, what are people's opinions on the Headman's Slicer for DW tanks. You lose ~100 agil, gain ~200 stam, a bit of wep damage(compared to the 463 1-handers), and it is itemized hit/exp. I'm not quite sure if I want to use it or not.

  12. #832
    Quote Originally Posted by microschemer View Post
    Your stats priority is misleading most of the players who is trying to play brewmaster monk.

    If the monk reforge like what you described in the guide, the only gain is probably more energy regen/auto attacks crit for elusive brew. However, as a tank, you are suppose to take less spike damage (consistant damage). In addition, during ox stance, you have 10% passive extra energy regen. It is enough to keep your shuffle up by 100% .

    As a raid tank, Hit > Mastery > avoidance > haste > crit
    As others have said, I think I'll keep with the basic priority that mathematics from several different parties have found to be the best in terms of minimizing damage taken.

    Also, as others have also said, you're missing expertise, you don't account for the fact that dodge has shit DR, and you don't take into account the effects haste and crit have on MULTIPLE aspects of our active mitigation... sooo.... yeah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    On another, more on topic point, what are people's opinions on the Headman's Slicer for DW tanks. You lose ~100 agil, gain ~200 stam, a bit of wep damage(compared to the 463 1-handers), and it is itemized hit/exp. I'm not quite sure if I want to use it or not.
    Weapon damage is basically useless for us, since our AM scales with AP, not weapon damage. They could be okay for entry-level tanks who want a bit more EH, though. The extra hit and expertise means there's less stress trying to get to those caps, but the loss of that much agi for weapon damage seems rather meh.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-10-19 at 05:40 PM.

  13. #833
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Yea I don't have the fist weps from Shado Pan Monastery yet, or the raid ones, so I was using the 2x sword from Gate. Think I'll keep it around just incase I want the health.

  14. #834
    So has the Ox deck from the DMF moved up the tanking list at all? Didnt see anything in the OP about it so thought I would ask.

  15. #835
    Just to add to some of the discussion on stat weights, our 2 set for tier 14 will surely make haste and crit even more valuable compared to mastery/parry/dodge.

  16. #836
    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoons View Post
    So has the Ox deck from the DMF moved up the tanking list at all? Didnt see anything in the OP about it so thought I would ask.
    It's better, but I wouldn't really waste money or resources going for it right now unless you are having shit luck with trinket drops.

  17. #837
    Mechagnome Avalya's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    It's better, but I wouldn't really waste money or resources going for it right now unless you are having shit luck with trinket drops.
    I actually got it, and I find it better than most alternatives I've been getting (got the Jade Bandit Figurine - agility + on use haste as well) and I find the extra health, plus an on-demand +7% dodge (or so) to be really good when progressing HC modes. I can see that it might lose its luster when it comes to normal, but I can hardly see myself switch it out until I got some more gear to get my health up - to eventually replace it with the agility DMC (and the agility + crit proc from Terrace as the other trinket is what I'm shooting for).

  18. #838
    Sorry if this has been asked before recently, but is there anything more decisive yet as to whether or not DW or 2H is better for tanking? I ask because I've seen some speculation of both recently, and more than that, now that I've reached that point in raiding I'm curious with the Sha Crystal cost of Dancing Steel if it's really worth the expense to enchant two weapons.

  19. #839
    The Patient Valient's Avatar
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    So, the Vengeance Fix was deliberate, as confirmed by Ghostcrawler on Twitter, which results in some pretty horrible loss to our mitigation. I have seen my average Guard value drop on Will of the Emperor from 272k to 180k, Expel Harm down from 63k average to 37.5k, and finally GotO down from 25k to 20k (which you can probably attribute to the lower Guard up time). As you can see, with Guard getting blow up faster, it's almost like this change is double dipping by reducing self heals from Guard buff and through AP scaling, just checked Gaurd uptime and it is down from 16.5% to 11.5%. That is a pretty significant drop and one that will have to be taken up by the healers.

    I'll be honest, i've been a fairly strong advocate of Monks in the right hands being strong tanks, but this change worries me as DK tanks, afaik, do not rely on their Vengeace for their mitigation, so effectively all tanks bar DK's have been nerfed, surely this cannot have been Blizzards intention as DK's are already very stongly represented in heroic kills.

    I guess my point is how badly will this effect us and has this done anything to change the viability of Monk tanks moving forward compared to other classes. I know our warrior tank watched his shield barrier drop from 120k down to 75k, but compared to how badly monks have been hit that is pretty minimal and I think warriors only mitigation ability effected by AP/Vengeance. Anyone with logs on how this has effected Guardians and Pally tanks would be really handy. My feeling is Monks have had the worst of this change.
    Last edited by Valient; 2012-10-20 at 09:27 PM.

  20. #840
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    As a former Pally tank, I don't think the change will effect them at all.

    Most of their 'active mitigation' comes from the DR on ShoR, which scales with Mastery, and WoG, which DOES scale with AP, but also gains a massive buff from Mastery(to such an extent most of the heal is overheal anyway) so you could drop ~100k off the WoG's I was getting before and they'd still be more than viable.

    Guardians are in a similar boat to warriors, their only AM that scales with AP is Frenzied Regen, an insanely spammable heal, having that drop by a small amount wont effect them too badly, as they still have redonkulous dodge and high armor.
    Reading the A song of Ice and Fire series is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere and shoots the puppy, then punches you in the face

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