1. #1001
    I've heard that most BM Monks use 2 hand weapons, but is it viable to use 2 1 handers?

  2. #1002
    Pandaren Monk Hinalover's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Otora View Post
    I've heard that most BM Monks use 2 hand weapons, but is it viable to use 2 1 handers?
    Yes. Main difference is Elusive Brew stacking. 2 handers you gain 2 stacks per proc, while 2 1-handers gain 1 stack per proc, but have a higher number of chances to proc them.

  3. #1003
    If anyone see any errors, let me know and I will fix them.
    I can include misses and guard into the equation as variables as well, but it gets a bit more complicated, and probably won't make a huge difference. Though if someone wants that or If anyone wants to see the derivation, let me know, and I will post it.

    16 energy per second.

    (10 + 6) * 60 = 960 energy

    We still want 7.5 KS regardless which costs 300 Energy

    That leaves,
    (960-300) = 660 Energy for jab

    660 / 40 = 16.5 Jabs

    Chi Generated:
    16.5 *1 + 7.5 * 2 = 31.5 Chi

    Chi spent: 2 Guard = -4 Chi : 5 PB = -5 Chi
    31.5 - 4 - 5 = 22.5 Chi

    2 Chi per BoK
    22.5 / 2 = 11.25 BoKs


    There are 60 GCDs for use in one minute.
    11.25 BoK
    7.5 KS
    16.5 Jab
    Total: 35.25 GCDs

    Thus, this leaves 24.75 GCDs to be used for Tiger Palm.

    In other words, despite being at 16 energy per second you are still spamming the shit out of tiger palm.

    Now that I look at it you can simply put this in a very easy equation,

    % Shuffle uptime = 0.125/t +(4.5*E + 10.5 - 3*PB)/60

    E = Energy per second (Note: Chi Brew and Power Strikes are roughly equivalent to 1.9 Energy per second.)
    PB = Purifying Brews used per minute
    t = fight length in minutes
    *Assuming that guard is used on CD and no heals are used
    *Not factoring in misses/dodges/parries



    Thus from my above example,
    E = Energy per second = 16
    PB = Purifying Brews used per minute = 1
    t = fight length in minutes = 6

    % Shuffle uptime = (.125/[1] + ([16] * 4.5 + 10.5 - 3*[5])/60 = 1.25


    Minimum Energy per second (E) for 100% uptime in 6 minute fight

    (.125/6 + (E * 4.5 + 10.5 - 3*5)/60 = 1
    => E = 14.0556 Energy per second

    If we lower PB to 4 uses per minute,
    (.125/6 + (E * 4.5 + 10.5 - 3*4)/60 = 1
    => E = 13.39 Energy per second

    Pretty significant difference just in using one less PB (Mastery sucks, cough, cough..)


    Offtanking Case (No Guard and No PB)
    (.125/6 + (E * 4.5 + 14.5 - 3*0)/60 = 1
    => E = 9.833

    If you are not being hit while off-tanking, then even base energy regen allows you to stack a surplus of shuffle.
    Last edited by Wushu; 2012-10-31 at 09:39 PM.

  4. #1004
    Those are some great observations and derivations, however one thing I noticed when I modeled the PB usage, is that it has a diminishing nature to it.

    From your equation it is obvious the value of haste is quite linear(thus reaching ~20 E/s would be optimal), however as everyone knows even with 0 haste we are able to pull off a perfectly healthy rotation(buff upkeep) per minute, the only issue comes in with the fact that it is equivalent to having 0 PB usage.

    Haste directly affects how much we can use our PB in a given time frame, so haste increases our direct physical damage mitigation better than any stat when going from 0 to X. I say X because at some point the amount of PB used is already mitigating a lot of damage, and additional PB's used in the same time frame don't mitigate as much damage as the previous one did, due to the diminishing nature of PB, given the control variable is the Boss dps.

    However, evaluating this a bit further, we come to see how our Tier 3 abilities work into all this. Due to PB's DR nature, at some point Chi Wave (or any T3 variate) will become better than using that additional chi on that extra PB, so Haste still has great value.

    This is where it all gets complicated, the bulk of Tier 3 abilities' healing is decided by our Vengeance AP, which is again decided by Boss dps. Modeling a complete structure becomes very complex at this point, so seeing when haste devalues from the rest of the stats is hard to measure (not impossible).

    Also using our Tier 3 abilities correctly has a very high learning curve and is different to each fight, and different to each character (their stat weights), so..

  5. #1005
    Hi there i got a quick question towards trinkets.
    i have the options to both DM Cards and both Shado-Pan Trinkets.
    What combination should i take?

    Agi DM Card + Stam (Mastery on use)
    AGI DM Card + Agi (Haste on use)
    STAM DM Card + Agi (Haste on muse)
    STAM DM Card + STAM (Mastery on use)

    I'm a 50/50 player. Means i play heal and tank in the raid. Imo i would take the DM Stam + Agi Shado Pan combination.

  6. #1006
    Siccora:

    All of them, swapping them out as needed.

    To go into more detail: for general tanking purposes, the agility ones are better. Once you hit heroic modes however (and arguably, normal mode Elegon and Will of the Emperor), you may find you need the extra stam/mastery. Them bosses hit hard, yo.

    At least that was my experience.

  7. #1007
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    To go into more detail: for general tanking purposes, the agility ones are better. Once you hit heroic modes however (and arguably, normal mode Elegon and Will of the Emperor), you may find you need the extra stam/mastery. Them bosses hit hard, yo.

    At least that was my experience.
    EH for me hasn't been an issue on Elegon if your clearing stacks normally. I plan to get Relic of Xuen and see how things go as we progress farther. Others have posted clearing 6/6HC without resorting to stam trinkets but your experience will vary on your guild/healers.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  8. #1008
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    EH for me hasn't been an issue on Elegon if your clearing stacks normally. I plan to get Relic of Xuen and see how things go as we progress farther. Others have posted clearing 6/6HC without resorting to stam trinkets but your experience will vary on your guild/healers.
    EH is healer insurance. It's arguably better to have it just in case. If you have it and don't need it, you'll be better off than if you need it and don't have it.

    So in other words, basically what you said.

  9. #1009
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    Siccora:

    All of them, swapping them out as needed.

    To go into more detail: for general tanking purposes, the agility ones are better. Once you hit heroic modes however (and arguably, normal mode Elegon and Will of the Emperor), you may find you need the extra stam/mastery. Them bosses hit hard, yo.

    At least that was my experience.
    Mastery is absolute trash and the above math proves it.

    Just consuming one extra PB requires thousands of haste rating!
    You are switching out haste for mastery, thus losing chi per minute. Chi you need to use to remove PB.
    Then by stacking mastery, you gain more stagger (assuming you can still keep shuffle up), which needs to be cleansed by PB.

    So you lose Chi, thus PB, but also require more PBs to clear stagger.
    Again, assuming you can still keep shuffle up, because if you let that drop then you almost certainly lost out on mastery rating on average.

    Shuffle is equivalent to 24,000 mastery and over 20,000 parry rating (Value would change due to DR).

    So, even if you let shuffle fall off for 3 seconds, 95% uptime.
    That is the equivalent of ~1000 parry rating, and 1200 mastery rating on average that's just gone. (This is why haste is our best stat, because it translates into these defensive stats via shuffle)

    After you get sufficient haste for shuffle to remain at 100% uptime, then you still don't want mastery! Because then you need to consider crit! Elusive Brew is equivalent to over 30,000 dodge rating!
    Last edited by morbidone; 2012-11-01 at 05:22 PM.

  10. #1010
    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    Mastery is absolute trash and the above math proves it.

    Just consuming one extra PB requires thousands of haste rating!
    You are switching out haste for mastery, thus losing chi per minute. Chi you need to use to remove PB.
    Then by stacking mastery, you gain more stagger (assuming you can still keep shuffle up), which needs to be cleansed by PB.

    So you lose Chi, thus PB, but also require more PBs to clear stagger.
    Again, assuming you can still keep shuffle up, because if you let that drop then you almost certainly lost out on mastery rating on average.

    Shuffle is equivalent to 24,000 mastery and over 20,000 parry rating (Value would change due to DR).

    So, even if you let shuffle fall off for 3 seconds, 95% uptime.
    That is the equivalent of ~1000 parry rating, and 1200 mastery rating on average that's just gone. (This is why haste is our best stat, because it translates into these defensive stats via shuffle)

    After you get sufficient haste for shuffle to remain at 100% uptime, then you still don't want mastery! Because then you need to consider crit! Elusive Brew is equivalent to over 30,000 dodge rating!
    Well, no, not really. Those numbers assume perfect uptime. They are worth less unless you can have a 100% uptime on both, which isn't really possible with Elusive Brew right now. Shuffle can be pretty close to perfect on most fights, though. It's a bit of a technicality, but it does have an impact on the severity of the difference between going into mastery and going into crit or haste, at least in this example. Most people will actually sacrifice crit instead of haste with higher mastery builds, or at least they try to. Still, in terms of mastery, you don't really look at the big picture to see how its useful.

    You do take more damage from stacking more mastery, but its purpose in terms of our gearing isn't to mitigate overall damage. It's to smooth it out, so on fights where you are taking spiky damage, you can time your shuffle and EB uptimes and use more passive mastery to make sure that spike damage is smoothed out, thus making keeping you alive an easier task for healers.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-11-01 at 06:03 PM.

  11. #1011
    I never said it was possible to have EB uptime at 100%. I said while its up its worth that much rating. Just like I showed that losing Shuffle for only 3 seconds was equivalent to losing out on ~2200 combat rating.


    Where are your numbers to support this idea of mastery? All you are saying is you feel, but you haven't even done the content to even feel it out. So what is this based on? It's like asking a virgin about the best sexual positions.

    How do you time shuffle? If you lose shuffle, you more than likely lost mastery rating on average!

    How is spike dmg less when you lose the 20% stagger from shuffle? Even if you used EB for that duration, you only gained 10% avoidance. Also when avoidance fails, the avoidance tank gets owned. Thats the whole point of stagger! However, a few mastery on your gear is nothing compared to 20% you get from shuffle. That is a large window for spike dmg to occur.

    Long story short. They are doing it wrong. Mastery sucks!
    Last edited by morbidone; 2012-11-01 at 11:23 PM.

  12. #1012
    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    I never said it was possible to have EB uptime at 100%. I said while its up its worth that much rating. Just like I showed that losing Shuffle for only 3 seconds was equivalent to losing out on ~2200 combat rating.


    Where are your numbers to support this idea of mastery? All you are saying is you feel, but you haven't even done the content to even feel it out. So what is this based on?

    How do you time shuffle? If you lose shuffle, you more than likely lost mastery rating on average!

    How is spike dmg less when you lose the 20% stagger from shuffle? Even if you used EB for that duration, you only gained 10% avoidance. Also when avoidance fails, the avoidance tank gets owned. Thats the whole point of stagger! However, a few mastery on your gear is nothing compared to 20% you get from shuffle. That is a large window for spike dmg to occur.

    Long story short. They are doing it wrong. Mastery sucks!
    If you take 200k damage instantly, and 100k over 10 seconds, you'll find your healers will have a lot more trouble than if you take 150k instantly, and 150k over 10 seconds. Spike damage is what kills tanks, so unless you're willing to say otherwise, the latter option is better simply because it means that your healers require less heals per second in order to keep you alive. Now, it won't be as extreme as that in reality, but every little bit helps and mastery WILL help smooth out damage.

    Since Shuffle is a buff, you can time it by saving your chi and using it when you need to... you can also keep it up just fine in a mastery heavy build, because once again, mastery heavy builds tend to sacrifice crit (or hit and expertise which only slightly hamper chi generation) for mastery, not haste for mastery.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-11-01 at 11:45 PM.

  13. #1013
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    Long story short. They are doing it wrong. Mastery sucks!
    Watching these arguments makes me think a lot back to my DK in early Firelands. They had less armor than other plate tanks and didn't have the extra stam pool that bears enjoyed (sound like anyone we know currently?) Even though I always logged less damage taken than our warrior we had issues with me getting gibbed in between DS. So what I ended up doing was reforging Mastery to equal DR dodge+parry and running with 2x Stam trinkets and our problems with tank gibbing improved drastically.

    So I'm wondering if Monk's too should stop breaking apart all the secondary stats and start looking at what each one does and the combination you provide. WoW tanking comes down simply into two aspects
    1) CTC coverage - how many attacks do you mitigate?
    2) EH - ability to take damage without outside intervention and not dying (spike damage).

    Now the interesting thing about CTC is it also increases EH but only at the higher % values as even 80% CTC still assumes 4% of the time you will take back to back un-mitigated attacks. Now on the flip side EH stats lose almost all value once you stack them past the point where your EH is > max spike damage (with some extra room so healers don't crap themselves all the time).
    *Note the below ignores self healing for now, that is a separate analysis and you still need enough EH to live to heal yourself anyways.

    So look at BrM's.
    BoK = Shuffle = +Parry (CTC) and +Stagger % (EH) so the assumptions leads us to conclude that near 100% uptime while tanking is ideal.
    Agil = Crit+Dodge (CTC)
    Haste = Required for 100% Shuffle uptime + EB stacks (CTC)
    Crit = EB stacks (CTC)
    Stam = HP (EH)
    Parry = Parry% (CTC) + non-mitigation DPS bonus (swift reflexes)
    Dodge = Dodge% (CTC)
    Mastery = Shuffle% (EH)

    So now a question, has anyone also reviewed what dumping rating into parry/dodge does? Just using my DK by forging away mastery I think I could gain 4-5%. So lets say 5%. Spirit Kings I got melee'd 163 times for an average of 96k. By increasing avoidance by 5% I reduce my damage taken by 782k and my frequency of 2x melee hit spikes reduces by 5.25%.

    Now, not saying we should be stacking avoidance but maybe should be looking at stat stacking in a different way. Instead of Haste>Crit, ect why not:

    EH (Stam/Mastery) > CTC (Agil/Haste/Crit/Parry-Dodge) > DPS.

    So based on this you would stack which ever is more efficient EH stat until your personal EH level (depends on a lot of factors) then you would stack the most efficient ability that improves CTC and basically stop there as the cap is impossible.

    I've personally in the past felt Stam was the most efficient way to improve EH (usually through trinkets) so is it more efficient for Monks? So my final question is, has anyone ever analyzed which of Haste/Crit/Parry/Dodge is the most efficient at improving CTC?
    * Yes I haven't mentioned stagger damage, that has to be factored into your EH values as incoming damage during a spike.

    Not familiar if the EJ spreadsheet looked at Haste/Crit improving EB uptime vs pure parry/dodge? Just some thoughts I tend to think more about how to improve EH/CTC than just straight traditional stat weights.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  14. #1014
    With shuffle up you have maybe 26% stagger.
    200k damage instantly, and 100k over 10 seconds = 33% stagger
    150k instantly, and 150k over 10 seconds = 50% stagger

    So where are you getting 1200 * 7 = 8400 mastery rating, never mind the 28,800 it would take to get to 50%.
    If one reforged all your gear they people would be lucky to get to 8400 mastery.
    So unless I am forgetting some stagger buff, aside from shuffle and mastery, then your numbers look way off.


    You can save chi to put up shuffle. That means you intentionally let it drop for some reason....What is that reason?


    At 26% stagger you are always taking 225k hits.
    How is that spikey? Its not...

    Also what happens when you let the shuffle drop and you take,
    273k damage instantly, and 27k over 10 seconds = 9% stagger

    You go from hits that do less than 200k to a hit thats doing nearly 300k.
    Wouldn't that be actual spike dmg? Hint: Yes!
    Last edited by morbidone; 2012-11-02 at 12:36 AM.

  15. #1015
    Firstly, once more, for the final time, mastery builds do not remove haste. Haste is useful. They remove crit, hit, and or expertise, which are not as useful at chi generation (as you get energy refunds on misses and dodges / parries). BoK uptime shouldn't really change much with more mastery.

    Secondly, as long as you wait less than 6 seconds, you don't really waste it. You take more damage during that time you're waiting, but if you're saving it to protect yourself against burst, then it's worth it, as the burst is the more likely to kill you.

    Sometimes, minimizing damage taken isn't as important as minimizing burst, which is quite true on Will, at the very least. That's where more mastery, not stacking mastery, simply more mastery, comes in handy.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-11-02 at 12:56 AM.

  16. #1016
    Quote Originally Posted by SurrealNight View Post
    Watching these arguments makes me think a lot back to my DK in early Firelands. They had less armor than other plate tanks and didn't have the extra stam pool that bears enjoyed (sound like anyone we know currently?) Even though I always logged less damage taken than our warrior we had issues with me getting gibbed in between DS. So what I ended up doing was reforging Mastery to equal DR dodge+parry and running with 2x Stam trinkets and our problems with tank gibbing improved drastically.

    So I'm wondering if Monk's too should stop breaking apart all the secondary stats and start looking at what each one does and the combination you provide. WoW tanking comes down simply into two aspects
    1) CTC coverage - how many attacks do you mitigate?
    2) EH - ability to take damage without outside intervention and not dying (spike damage).

    Now the interesting thing about CTC is it also increases EH but only at the higher % values as even 80% CTC still assumes 4% of the time you will take back to back un-mitigated attacks. Now on the flip side EH stats lose almost all value once you stack them past the point where your EH is > max spike damage (with some extra room so healers don't crap themselves all the time).
    *Note the below ignores self healing for now, that is a separate analysis and you still need enough EH to live to heal yourself anyways.

    So look at BrM's.
    BoK = Shuffle = +Parry (CTC) and +Stagger % (EH) so the assumptions leads us to conclude that near 100% uptime while tanking is ideal.
    Agil = Crit+Dodge (CTC)
    Haste = Required for 100% Shuffle uptime + EB stacks (CTC)
    Crit = EB stacks (CTC)
    Stam = HP (EH)
    Parry = Parry% (CTC) + non-mitigation DPS bonus (swift reflexes)
    Dodge = Dodge% (CTC)
    Mastery = Shuffle% (EH)

    So now a question, has anyone also reviewed what dumping rating into parry/dodge does? Just using my DK by forging away mastery I think I could gain 4-5%. So lets say 5%. Spirit Kings I got melee'd 163 times for an average of 96k. By increasing avoidance by 5% I reduce my damage taken by 782k and my frequency of 2x melee hit spikes reduces by 5.25%.

    Now, not saying we should be stacking avoidance but maybe should be looking at stat stacking in a different way. Instead of Haste>Crit, ect why not:

    EH (Stam/Mastery) > CTC (Agil/Haste/Crit/Parry-Dodge) > DPS.

    So based on this you would stack which ever is more efficient EH stat until your personal EH level (depends on a lot of factors) then you would stack the most efficient ability that improves CTC and basically stop there as the cap is impossible.

    I've personally in the past felt Stam was the most efficient way to improve EH (usually through trinkets) so is it more efficient for Monks? So my final question is, has anyone ever analyzed which of Haste/Crit/Parry/Dodge is the most efficient at improving CTC?
    * Yes I haven't mentioned stagger damage, that has to be factored into your EH values as incoming damage during a spike.

    Not familiar if the EJ spreadsheet looked at Haste/Crit improving EB uptime vs pure parry/dodge? Just some thoughts I tend to think more about how to improve EH/CTC than just straight traditional stat weights.
    Haste is by far the best stat, at least up to a point where shuffle uptime is maxes and PB uses are maxed.
    Haste yields 20,000+ parry rating & 24000 mastery rating ( EH stat).

    I have often wondered about the exact benefits of crit -> dodge. I might have to look more into that later, but my gut feeling is that critical strike rating offers more avoidance than dodge/parry rating.

    I have seen a few guides that lists parry/dodge rating above mastery. Its also important to note that avoidance stacking drastically reduces incoming dmg. Each % avoidance is far superior than the last, which is why it has diminishing returns. As BrM we have the potential to reach levels of damn near being unhittable with all our buffs up. With all our buffs, and passives, we are sitting at something like 60% chance to avoid a raid boss attack! That is before gear mind you. That said though it would be difficult to reforge gear to parry rating, as most items are currently reforged to haste at the moment, and will be reforged to crit after that.


    Stamina is easy to get. Trinkets + Flask + Food + Cloak Enchant + Meta Gem
    Mastery, as shown above, does almost nothing if you don't have the chi to remove the dot. Thus it is mostly the same as increasing your HP!!!
    Thus we can relate the two directly.

    If we do a comparison based on gem stats. I know you aren't gemming stamina or mastery, but its at least some point for comparison.
    1200 mastery rating = 800 stamina


    So which is better at EH?
    How much is one point of stamina worth for monk anyways with all the buffs? I am spec'd dps atm, and I don't want to change to look.
    Last edited by morbidone; 2012-11-02 at 01:18 AM.

  17. #1017
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    Haste is by far the best stat, at least up to a point where shuffle uptime is maxes and PB uses are maxed.
    Haste yields 20,000+ parry rating & 24000 mastery rating ( EH stat).
    Totally agree here as Haste is required for a 100% shuffle up time and my post didn't address PB useage. If you can't fuel both your in trouble.

    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    I have often wondered about the exact benefits of crit -> dodge. I might have to look more into that later, but my gut feeling is that critical strike rating offers more avoidance than dodge/parry rating.
    The problem with BrM is we have two types of avoidance. Periodic which can be averaged over fight length (EB stacks) and constant (Parry Dodge). I love the EB mechanic but at low levels of gear the uptime is pretty poor so I don't consider it a significant part of my CTC. It's more like a short term CD.


    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    I have seen a few guides that lists parry/dodge rating above mastery. Its also important to note that avoidance stacking drastically reduces incoming dmg. Each % avoidance is far superior than the last, which is why it has diminishing returns. As BrM we have the potential to reach levels of damn near being unhittable with all our buffs up. With all our buffs, and passives, we are sitting at something like 60% chance to avoid a raid boss attack! That is before gear mind you. That said though it would be difficult to reforge gear to parry rating, as most items are currently reforged to haste at the moment, and will be reforged to crit after that.
    Well I still view Parry/Dodge <> Mastery one is CTC the other is EH. The reasons they do so would have to be looked into and I don't consider them exclusive. Also I did post what a 5% increase in avoidance would do for me on normal Spirit Kings but in no way can we ever reach the CTC cap (only a block class could pre-MoP). I love CTC but you are forced to pay attention to EH as you can't reach a really acceptable level where it can factor into your EH calc.

    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    Stamina is easy to get. Trinkets + Flask + Food + Cloak Enchant + Meta Gem
    Mastery, as shown above, does almost nothing if you don't have the chi to remove the dot. Thus it is mostly the same as increasing your HP!!!
    Thus we can relate the two directly.
    Very much the spirit of my comment as Stam is the easiest stat to stack from trinkets and blue gems, not even factoring the massive amount I get from panda buff on food. Mastery does absolutely increase your EH but you also have to back it into your spike damage taken as you should always consider a high "green" level of damage during your calculated spikes.

    If we do a comparison based on gem stats. I know you aren't gemming stamina or mastery, but its at least some point for comparison.
    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    1200 mastery rating = 800 stamina


    So which is better at EH?
    How much is one point of stamina worth for monk anyways with all the buffs? I am spec'd dps atm, and I don't want to change to look.
    I didn't look up the conversion numbers but based on that it seems like IF you are having EH problems you would stack stamina and then dip right into the best CTC stat once you reach a comfortable level.

    Again this is exactly what I did on my DK. Improved my EH through stamina and boosted my CTC through parry/dodge.

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  18. #1018
    i think i go with the agi and haste on use trinket + stam DMC dodge on use as first setup.
    it's good to have 2 cooldowns. like the second boss on heart of fear. the second Overwhelming Assault sometimes 1 hittet me with shuffle and EB up (dampen harm was used before). i took the first 2nd hit with FB and no problem. I got my red stagger and cleared it. but the second second hit, with no big cooldowns rdy is a pain in the arse. so right after de first hit i will pop up haste to build up enough chi and energy for a buffed guard, shuffle up to have like 15 seconds and 1 chi for PB du clear the stagger. 10 seconds before the hit will come i pop up dodge, use the guard and maybe i have 5 or more stacks for EB. and then i cross my fingers not getting 1 hittet again.

  19. #1019
    Quote Originally Posted by siccora View Post
    i think i go with the agi and haste on use trinket + stam DMC dodge on use as first setup.
    it's good to have 2 cooldowns. like the second boss on heart of fear. the second Overwhelming Assault sometimes 1 hittet me with shuffle and EB up (dampen harm was used before). i took the first 2nd hit with FB and no problem. I got my red stagger and cleared it. but the second second hit, with no big cooldowns rdy is a pain in the arse. so right after de first hit i will pop up haste to build up enough chi and energy for a buffed guard, shuffle up to have like 15 seconds and 1 chi for PB du clear the stagger. 10 seconds before the hit will come i pop up dodge, use the guard and maybe i have 5 or more stacks for EB. and then i cross my fingers not getting 1 hittet again.
    I have not fought this boss yet, but what is the benefit of sitting on the haste trinket? I use mine on CD to help ensure shuffle is 100% uptime, and I can use PB as needed. I don't see much benefit of sitting on it, thats just wasted haste rating imo.

    According to the comment on wowhead, you only need to take 2 hits from this, and from the description of the skill the 2nd hit will be the real issue. Between Dampen Harm, Fortifying Brew, and Guard this shouldn't be a problem I don't think.

    Dampen harm would likely prevent far more dmg than the FB, but Idk.
    Ohh they also said you can't doge, parry, or block this attack.

    PS:
    Most Healers have some kind of tank CD, that are damn near required on many boss fights.
    Last edited by morbidone; 2012-11-02 at 06:04 AM.

  20. #1020
    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    I have not fought this boss yet, but what is the benefit of sitting on the haste trinket? I use mine on CD to help ensure shuffle is 100% uptime, and I can use PB as needed. I don't see much benefit of sitting on it, thats just wasted haste rating imo.
    Yeah haste is never a good stat for a tanking cooldown. It's a stat that's for general, overall mitigation via energy regen and to a lesser extent, EB stacks, which is affected more by crit anyway. It doesn't really provide anything meaningful as an "oh shit" cooldown. The DMF stam relic would be useful if you were taking a solid amount of damage from the initial strike, however.

    Quote Originally Posted by morbidone View Post
    According to the comment on wowhead, you only need to take 2 hits from this, and from the description of the skill the 2nd hit will be the real issue. Between Dampen Harm, Fortifying Brew, and Guard this shouldn't be a problem I don't think.

    Dampen harm would likely prevent far more dmg than the FB, but Idk.
    Ohh they also said you can't doge, parry, or block this attack.

    PS:
    Most Healers have some kind of tank CD, that are damn near required on many boss fights.
    I've yet to physically do it myself either, though I watched the stream of our warrior and DK tanks getting the kill, and yeah I'd imagine DH would provide more mit, and healer cooldowns were used quite often for those second hits.

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