1. #1281
    Field Marshal
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    We are going through the challenge modes at the moment, so what would you recommend me what i should take, PS or ascension? would you say i need a Mastery + stam gear or is it possible with 2 stam trinkets only? Done jade Serpent and Shado Gold today (had at first little problems with the first pull in both of the instances, but after some pulls it went a lot easier with a good cc/cd chain and some movement)

  2. #1282
    High Overlord Mesima's Avatar
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    Hey guys, I'm looking into adopting Brewmaster as my OS. I've never tanked in my life, hell I just started DPS'ing. I've always been a Healer at heart. Anyways, back on topic The Madgod you guide is awesome, I'm slowly but surely reading over all the information to get an understanding of what it is to be a Brewmaster, with that being said are there any videos that are worthwhile watching about the Brewmaster?

    Thanks for all the hard work The Madgod! You and Mihir have been lifesavers for me!

  3. #1283
    Quote Originally Posted by Mesima View Post
    Hey guys, I'm looking into adopting Brewmaster as my OS. I've never tanked in my life, hell I just started DPS'ing. I've always been a Healer at heart. Anyways, back on topic The Madgod you guide is awesome, I'm slowly but surely reading over all the information to get an understanding of what it is to be a Brewmaster, with that being said are there any videos that are worthwhile watching about the Brewmaster?

    Thanks for all the hard work The Madgod! You and Mihir have been lifesavers for me!
    It's my pleasure, sir!~

    I've actually done a couple podcast episodes on my YouTube channel (shameless self-advertising, I know, I know), that basically reiterate what's said in the guide, but they might help you retain some of the information.

    As well, I've got a couple episodes planned this week, one about talents, and another about some of the hotter topics that concern brewmasters (with a special guest!) that I'll be recording on Monday, barring any unforeseen crazy.

    If there are any other video-based sources of information on Brewmasters, I've yet to hear of them, though.

  4. #1284
    High Overlord Azulor's Avatar
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    I've come to notice since the patch on Wednesday, ask mr.robot seems to be indicating that its now best to gem and enchant stam over anything else.
    ATM, I have a middle ground between haste and crit, with 13.77er and taking Ascension, and I don't seem to have any major problems with my energy and chi management.

    I see that the discussions in the last few pages have somewhat indicated anything below 13.33ER with Ascension is going to be slightly troublesome, and that it should be around 14ER instead. Essentially, this change to stacking stam would increase my HP by almost 80k (currently at 509k unbuffed), and reduce my ER by a couple of points.

    Essentially, I'd like some opinions on which direction I should be heading with my stats.

    Links -
    Armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../Azue/advanced
    AMR: http://www.askmrrobot.com/wow/gear/usa/barthilas/azue

  5. #1285
    If AMR is telling you to prioritize stamina for gemming and enchanting, frankly, it's pretty wrong. Ignore it unless you're getting one to two shot on a fairly regular basis. We only want so much stamina, and going for it at the expense of too much crit and/or haste is a very bad idea. I've yet to see a need to stack stamina, at least.

    As for the discussion we've been having here, it has basically pointed to two outcomes for the chi talents... pick Power Strikes and get to 13.33 regen if you are taking lots of physical or magic damage, or get to roughly 14 regen with Ascension and then go into crit for higher damage output and smoother resource gain. Since PS will provide more chi, the extra chi will allow you to have a higher shuffle uptime and / or more purifying brew usage per minute, thus decreasing as well as smoothing out damage taken, or allow for more self healing via your level 30 talents, so it's nice for magic fights too. On the other side, Ascension provides higher damage output via more crits since you can throw your excess haste rating into crit rating, so if you are doing perfectly fine in terms of damage taken but your DPS are having a rougher time, going into Ascension might be better for you.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-12-01 at 10:15 AM.

  6. #1286
    Does someone have an accurate weight for stamina now that it's off in AMR?

    A bit to the discussion:
    I switched from PS to Ascension after the patch I found that roughly 14,5 Energy Regen provides me with enough energy to keep Shuffle up constantly and still having a PB for every yellow stagger amount. The excessive haste I had was spent on crit and it boosted my uptime on elusive brew significantly.
    I also noticed that before the patch I could do up to 3 Tiger palms during the regeneration from 0 energy to 40. Now after the patch the ER is so high that I barely manage to fit 1 Tiger palm in between this downtime. I'm not sure wheather it's benifical or not, but it's quite a change nonetheless.

  7. #1287
    High Overlord Mesima's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    It's my pleasure, sir!~

    I've actually done a couple podcast episodes on my YouTube channel (shameless self-advertising, I know, I know), that basically reiterate what's said in the guide, but they might help you retain some of the information.

    As well, I've got a couple episodes planned this week, one about talents, and another about some of the hotter topics that concern brewmasters (with a special guest!) that I'll be recording on Monday, barring any unforeseen crazy.

    If there are any other video-based sources of information on Brewmasters, I've yet to hear of them, though.
    Sweet! I look forward to the podcast come Monday. I'll check out your current podcasts today as I do my daily grind and dungeon ques!

  8. #1288
    I was like WTF when I opened mr robot this time.
    I just can't see how stamina suddenly became so wanted stat for us.
    I guess they just got it wrong this time around or something, im sticking with haste untill someone proofs it otherwise.

  9. #1289
    The guide has been updated for 5.1!

    Changes include:

    - Tweaked descriptions in Stats
    - Added Windsong to the Enchants section and discussed DW enchanting.
    - Revamped Gemming information to discuss all different styles of gemming.
    - Edited the level 30 and 45 talent descriptions. Made a note about Dampen Harm's glitch.
    - Noted that you only need one hit of Tiger Palm to get the buff
    - Removed the section concerning Desperate Measures's lack of resetting the cooldown on Expel Harm
    - Added a Debates section which will be filled with information in regards to certain hot topics such as expertise vs haste, Ascension vs Power Strikes, and the like. This section will be edited over the next couple days as I compile the information available.

  10. #1290
    Was looking at askmrrobot for shits n giggles and it's telling me to gem and enchant straight up stam. Now why would it be telling me to do that you think, I'm confused now.

    I was reading over the author's notes in the op and just realized it's from may this year. I guess I need to sleep at 3:30am =/

  11. #1291
    Quote Originally Posted by galook View Post
    Was looking at askmrrobot for shits n giggles and it's telling me to gem and enchant straight up stam. Now why would it be telling me to do that you think, I'm confused now.
    Because it's stupid!

    In seriousness, it's a very big error and I would not recommend using Brewmaster settings if you want to even continue using AMR. Surreal here, a regular, uses the windwalker settings, actually, since the spec has relatively the same priorities as brewmasters, though it's hardly a perfect solution.

    Quote Originally Posted by galook View Post
    I was reading over the author's notes in the op and just realized it's from may this year. I guess I need to sleep at 3:30am =/
    Yeah those went from early beta to I think the weekend before Mists released. Any more Author's Notes will probably be YouTube videos with the latest patch changes and my commentary thereof.

  12. #1292
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Because it's stupid!

    In seriousness, it's a very big error and I would not recommend using Brewmaster settings if you want to even continue using AMR. Surreal here, a regular, uses the windwalker settings, actually, since the spec has relatively the same priorities as brewmasters, though it's hardly a perfect solution.
    Yea I know, I was loaded it up just to see. I don't actually use it =).

  13. #1293
    I'm seeing a lot of talk about using ascension instead of power strikes to allow haste to be reforged to other stats (Crit). To me this doesn't make any sense because (correct me if I'm wrong) ascension scales with haste, and power strikes gives more Chi than ascension unless you have a very high amount of haste. So with that said, taking ascension and lowering your haste because of that just seems illogical. Maybe I'm missing something if so let me know.

  14. #1294
    Quote Originally Posted by zucchellij View Post
    I'm seeing a lot of talk about using ascension instead of power strikes to allow haste to be reforged to other stats (Crit). To me this doesn't make any sense because (correct me if I'm wrong) ascension scales with haste, and power strikes gives more Chi than ascension unless you have a very high amount of haste. So with that said, taking ascension and lowering your haste because of that just seems illogical. Maybe I'm missing something if so let me know.
    You're entirely right, but there's basically a point where getting more Chi isn't very helpful. You've got enough to keep Shuffle up 100% (or close enough) of the time, you've got enough to use Guard on cooldown, and you have plenty left over for Purifying Brew, the T30 healing talents, etc.

    So while more haste would mean more Chi, you don't really need more Chi, so you're better off putting that haste into crit instead. That's why Ascension is useful.

  15. #1295
    Mechagnome Chuupag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    The guide has been updated for 5.1!

    Changes include:

    - Tweaked descriptions in Stats
    - Added Windsong to the Enchants section and discussed DW enchanting.
    - Revamped Gemming information to discuss all different styles of gemming.
    - Edited the level 30 and 45 talent descriptions. Made a note about Dampen Harm's glitch.
    - Noted that you only need one hit of Tiger Palm to get the buff
    - Removed the section concerning Desperate Measures's lack of resetting the cooldown on Expel Harm
    - Added a Debates section which will be filled with information in regards to certain hot topics such as expertise vs haste, Ascension vs Power Strikes, and the like. This section will be edited over the next couple days as I compile the information available.
    Think I saw a blue post about Dancing Steel now being able to proc 2 separate buffs when DW, which would make double DS better than DS/WS if I'm not mistaken.

    Found it http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...2840?page=5#99

    Dampen Harm was also fixed in that same hotfix group

    ---------- Post added 2012-12-02 at 02:37 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by zucchellij View Post
    I'm seeing a lot of talk about using ascension instead of power strikes to allow haste to be reforged to other stats (Crit). To me this doesn't make any sense because (correct me if I'm wrong) ascension scales with haste, and power strikes gives more Chi than ascension unless you have a very high amount of haste. So with that said, taking ascension and lowering your haste because of that just seems illogical. Maybe I'm missing something if so let me know.
    The whole 'soft cap' thing was a very inelegant way of describing the situation. Basically with Power Strikes you need between 11 and 15.66 energy regen to have 100% shuffle uptime, guard on cooldown, and between 3 and 10 uses of Purifying Brew per min. If you average those numbers you get the 13.33 'soft cap.' The range 3-10 PB usage is because on some fights you barely need to PB and on others you need to use it every 6 or 7 seconds. On fights where you only need 3 those other 7 chi can be spent on level 30 talents...but you would have gotten more use out of them had you put those points in crit for more EB instead. The actual 'soft cap' is going to depend more on your gear, your playstyle, and the specific boss than any theorycrafting can tell you, but 13.33 is a good number to shoot for and is going to be useful for the vast majority of cases. If you are doing bleeding edge or intense progression you are probably doing your own theorycrafting and can take 13.33 with a grain of salt, but for the majority of the community 13.33 is fine.
    Last edited by Chuupag; 2012-12-02 at 07:42 PM.

  16. #1296
    This may or may not have been mentioned (I haven't ready any of the 65 pages), but one thing that separates ascension from power strikes and chi brew is that it scales with gear.

    At 0 haste: power strikes = 1 chi/20 sec, chi brew = 1 chi/22.5 sec, ascension = 1 chi/24.24 sec
    At 3292 haste: power strikes = 1 chi/20 sec, chi brew = 1 chi/22.5 sec, ascension = 1chi/22.5 sec
    At 6517 haste: power strikes = 1 chi/20 sec, chi brew = 1 chi/22.5 sec, ascension = 1 chi/20 sec

    It's probably not relevant now simply because to get any appreciable amount of haste, you'd be giving up other more defensive stats, but in later tiers, gear may make ascension more appealing.

  17. #1297
    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    Think I saw a blue post about Dancing Steel now being able to proc 2 separate buffs when DW, which would make double DS better than DS/WS if I'm not mistaken.

    Found it http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...2840?page=5#99

    Dampen Harm was also fixed in that same hotfix group
    Good find, sir. Edited appropriately.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chuupag View Post
    The whole 'soft cap' thing was a very inelegant way of describing the situation. Basically with Power Strikes you need between 11 and 15.66 energy regen to have 100% shuffle uptime, guard on cooldown, and between 3 and 10 uses of Purifying Brew per min. If you average those numbers you get the 13.33 'soft cap.' The range 3-10 PB usage is on some fights you barely need to PB and on others you need to use it every 6 or 7 seconds. On fights where you only need 3 those other 7 chi can be spent on level 30 talents...but you would have gotten more use out of them had you put those points in crit for more EB instead. The actual 'soft cap' is going to depend more on your gear, your playstyle, and the specific boss than any theorycrafting can tell you, but 13.33 is a good number to shoot for and is going to be useful for the vast majority of cases. If you are doing bleeding edge or intense progression you are probably doing your own theorycrafting and can take 13.33 with a grain of salt, but for the majority of the community 13.33 is fine.
    And yeah, basically this. The biggest issue, though, is that you can't switch out Ascension and Power Strikes willy-nilly. To do so means you need to completely reforge and regem your gear, so you need to look at your experiences in your current tier of progression to see what you need... personally, I'm more comfortable with the higher amount of chi, especially since I'm progressing in Heroic content.

  18. #1298
    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    You're entirely right, but there's basically a point where getting more Chi isn't very helpful. You've got enough to keep Shuffle up 100% (or close enough) of the time, you've got enough to use Guard on cooldown, and you have plenty left over for Purifying Brew, the T30 healing talents, etc.

    So while more haste would mean more Chi, you don't really need more Chi, so you're better off putting that haste into crit instead. That's why Ascension is useful.
    I've seen some pretty detailed math showing Power Strikes providing more Chi than Ascension until you are over something around 9k Haste here http://elitistjerks.com/f99/t129790-...iscussion/p24/
    Assuming this guy is correct wouldn't that make it so Power Strikes would allow you to reforge even more Haste away if you want and still have decent Chi flow? I'm not understanding how Ascension, while providing less Chi, is more useful in any situation other than AoE.

  19. #1299
    @MadGod: I don't know if you have the capability to do this but do you think you could do a podcast on gemming, speccing, glyping, and approaching the raids? As a pretty new level 90 who is *trying* to get his guild to let him tank soon I think that information like that coming from yourself would be amazing. Videos of the fights from a BrM perspective is a bonus, but just something I think could be really neat.

    I've been diving pretty much head first into my Brewmaster and don't want to a whole lot more with my Spriest...
    杜氏清兵衛

  20. #1300
    Quote Originally Posted by Seibei View Post
    @MadGod: I don't know if you have the capability to do this but do you think you could do a podcast on gemming, speccing, glyping, and approaching the raids? As a pretty new level 90 who is *trying* to get his guild to let him tank soon I think that information like that coming from yourself would be amazing. Videos of the fights from a BrM perspective is a bonus, but just something I think could be really neat.

    I've been diving pretty much head first into my Brewmaster and don't want to a whole lot more with my Spriest...
    Yeah I can do that.

    I've been having a lot of trouble with getting my computer to record video in a non-shitty way, so I need to figure that out before I can do anything with that, but I can talk about all that sort of stuff, no problem.

    I already did a podcast on what glyphs we have and where to use them, though. Was that not helpful, or were you simply hoping for a "what glyphs to use for X fight" thing?

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