The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[Ahsakura]

Yeah I can do that.

I've been having a lot of trouble with getting my computer to record video in a non-shitty way, so I need to figure that out before I can do anything with that, but I can talk about all that sort of stuff, no problem.

I already did a podcast on what glyphs we have and where to use them, though. Was that not helpful, or were you simply hoping for a "what glyphs to use for X fight" thing?

I actually just subscribed a few minutes ago and will listen to them all this week, so I'm sure those will be plenty helpful once I listen to them. I also did a search for Brewmaster raid perspectives and have found some cool videos, but maybe even videos with commentary about what's going on. I know it's probably a lot of work but just a thought. I pretty much live in this guide these days so I'll figure everything out sooner or later.

[Chuupag]

I've seen some pretty detailed math showing Power Strikes providing more Chi than Ascension until you are over something around 9k Haste here http://elitistjerks.com/f99/t129790-...iscussion/p24/
Assuming this guy is correct wouldn't that make it so Power Strikes would allow you to reforge even more Haste away if you want and still have decent Chi flow? I'm not understanding how Ascension, while providing less Chi, is more useful in any situation other than AoE.

This has been said before, but I'll reiterate it here now. Yes Power Strike will give you more chi until you get over 9k haste, that has never been in contention. And yes you could just drop haste for crit already with Power Strikes. I think the issue is that so many people have gotten into the 'need to get to 13.33' mindset that is the problem. I personally like Ascension more for the ability to bank 5 chi and knowing I am practically never going to 'lose' a chi because I didn't see the chi sphere proc. I'd be willing to wager that the difference in chi generation at an average haste level is smaller than the amount of chi wasted to missed chi spheres. Now if you are good that won't happen and the only bonus is banking more chi, but I think giving info to the community is better served by what will work for most people rather than only teaching min-maxing.

[webster259]

Madgod would happen to have a link to your armory profile anywhere that I might have missed that could just be used as another reference for all the Brewmasters out there? Thanks

[Auramin]

Dear community - first of all, thanks to Madgod for an awesome guide and nice videos on BM-tanking.

I've just returned from a year and a half away from WoW - just in time to hop aboard on this new expansion - and I've been rather disheartened to see so many bad vibes about the Brewmaster. I've just dinged 90 and was looking very much forward to a new era of WoW-raiding as a monk tank, however the notion I've received from the PuGs and general WoW EU/US fora, is that BM-tanks are just too complicated to really matter in a raid. People seem to prefer DK, druids and warriors over monk because of their simple mechanics and better abilities? I have a lvl 85 druid from my last active WoW-period, and I fear that I have to level her in order to tank as a bear instead if I want to go anywhere with tanking.

I must say, after rushing from lvl 1-90 in a week or so, I'm really unhappy to see people sigh at me whenever I proclaim to be a tank as a monk. I know Pugs can be mean, but it still bothers me.
Reading through this guide and similar pages leave me with a hope and wish that we BM-monks do indeed have the capabilities to tank, but what are your honest opinion on this?

Specifically, topics like this makes me doubt in my class if that is the general opinion:
Oi, I'm not allowed to link before I've done a few posts, so I've removed them. I'll quote one of them instead:

From what I've seen DK's are both insanely easy and insanely effective, so I'd say DKs

I'd say it's currently, from easiest to hardest:

DK (great mitigation, more healing than some healer specs and lots of good CDs)
Druid (they have the highest passive mitigation, thus least reliance on active mitigation, so they're very forgiving)
Pally (great mitigation, good self healing)
Warrior (nice mitigation but little to no healing)
Monk (200% of the effort for 75% the effectiveness of a DK and no buffs on the horizon)

[Kisho]

Honest (personal) opinion is that yes, we work harder than other tanks. We seem to take less damage though overall, but because of our reduced HP pools that damage appears spikier (a 100k hit on a 400k HP tank will seem worse than a 125k hit on a 600k HP tank, for example). So unless your healers are aware of this and get used to healing a Brewmaster, then they may waste more mana on you than is actually necessary, which renders our reduced damage taken moot.

We're also incredibly reliant on our active mitigation, meaning when we get stunned than we REALLY get hurt. This is a fairly significant issue in challenge modes: in raids it's not too bad at all.

The main issue is that the gap between a good and a bad Brewmaster is huge. Bad Brewmasters will stick out horribly and everyone will remember them, but good ones are truly great. But people tend to focus on the bad, so label all Brewmasters with the 'lol terribad class' name, which kinda sucks. Even though we do fine when played well.

Benefits to being a Brewmaster in a raid:

-Higher DPS than other tanks, very useful for enrage timers
-Strong raid 'healing' with shields we put up with our Ox Statue
-Lower damage taken than other tanks (but we have the low stam issue as mentioned above, so this gets mitigated somewhat)

Downsides to being a Brewmaster in raids:

-Not many personal CDs (we have 2, sometimes 3 if ZM works on the fight (which isn't often))
-Low stamina compared to other tanks (my ~457 ilevel DK has almost as much HP as my ~492 Monk, without gearing for stamina)
-High skill cap



In closing, Brewmasters are brilliant fun. If you want to play it, it will work and you'll excel if you put the effort in. There are some fights where we're just perfect for it (Gara'jal, Sha of Fear's Thrash, Lei Shi, etc.), and some where we're not so much. But overall, we can tank every fight in the game and do well at it. You just need an open-minded raid team, and also be prepared to explain a lot about the class to them. I've got a thread going on my guild's forums where people can ask me any questions about Brewmasters, and I've given them a summary of what we can do for them (broken down for each role and a section for raid leaders as well). Seemed to do the job.

But yeah. We're great tanks. You just need to work for it; if the challenge is appealing, go for it. It's so rewarding when you do everything right.

[siccora]

To add: on Blademaster me as a brewmaster #1 dmg (whole fight) AND healing (phase 1)

i can just underline this whole statement from kisho. our incoming dmg can be so out of control our healers sometimes needs to spam me.

but well, fuck it, i'm a monk and i hit the shit out of the bosses with my fists!

[Ahsakura]

I've leveled a DK and a Druid tank in Cata and very rarely got the coveted "good tank" message in the party chat, but as a Monk tank I can't tell you how many dungeons I've gone into at level 90 now and had people say they were prepared to wipe because they got a monk tank only to later tell me I was a good tank and how much easier the dungeon seemed than usual.

We have a much higher skill cap than other tanks, but I also find us to be more rewarding to play.

[Bodakane]

Honest (personal) opinion is that yes, we work harder than other tanks. We seem to take less damage though overall, but because of our reduced HP pools that damage appears spikier (a 100k hit on a 400k HP tank will seem worse than a 125k hit on a 600k HP tank, for example). So unless your healers are aware of this and get used to healing a Brewmaster, then they may waste more mana on you than is actually necessary, which renders our reduced damage taken moot.

We're also incredibly reliant on our active mitigation, meaning when we get stunned than we REALLY get hurt. This is a fairly significant issue in challenge modes: in raids it's not too bad at all.

The main issue is that the gap between a good and a bad Brewmaster is huge. Bad Brewmasters will stick out horribly and everyone will remember them, but good ones are truly great. But people tend to focus on the bad, so label all Brewmasters with the 'lol terribad class' name, which kinda sucks. Even though we do fine when played well.

Benefits to being a Brewmaster in a raid:

-Higher DPS than other tanks, very useful for enrage timers
-Strong raid 'healing' with shields we put up with our Ox Statue
-Lower damage taken than other tanks (but we have the low stam issue as mentioned above, so this gets mitigated somewhat)

Downsides to being a Brewmaster in raids:

-Not many personal CDs (we have 2, sometimes 3 if ZM works on the fight (which isn't often))
-Low stamina compared to other tanks (my ~457 ilevel DK has almost as much HP as my ~492 Monk, without gearing for stamina)
-High skill cap



In closing, Brewmasters are brilliant fun. If you want to play it, it will work and you'll excel if you put the effort in. There are some fights where we're just perfect for it (Gara'jal, Sha of Fear's Thrash, Lei Shi, etc.), and some where we're not so much. But overall, we can tank every fight in the game and do well at it. You just need an open-minded raid team, and also be prepared to explain a lot about the class to them. I've got a thread going on my guild's forums where people can ask me any questions about Brewmasters, and I've given them a summary of what we can do for them (broken down for each role and a section for raid leaders as well). Seemed to do the job.

But yeah. We're great tanks. You just need to work for it; if the challenge is appealing, go for it. It's so rewarding when you do everything right.

So very much this.

I was a devout druid. There wasn't a whole lot of challenge to bear tanking by itself, but being able to pop into cat and do real dps, then pop back into bear, was the challenge....and the fun.

Then came monk and holy crap. The fluid and constant nature of the monk's kit is soooooooooo much fun. Just roll alone, makes it feel like you're in control of getting hit or not. Also, not too mention you hit people with a keg.

I used to enjoy most classes and was a chronic alt whore. None of my other toons are 90 yet, I do have a second monk at 86 though.

[Jaja]

Ok, so I am windwalker MS but tanking for our Will heroic progress.

I am tanking one of the bosses 100% of the time when they spawn.

My question is, since 5.1 I am using ascension but what stat prio should I follow for purely boss tanking on that fight. Tanks get hit like a truck there so what I have been doing so farm is stacking crit over haste for elusive brew stacks. I am under the impression that avoiding as many hits as possisble is best route to go here.

Right or Wrong to do so, want to hear other opinions please

TL;DR Will heroic boss tanking stat prio/playstyle.

[Kisho]

Assuming you've got enough haste to keep Shuffle up 100% of the time when not dancing during the combo, then yeah, you're doing it right. I would also try to maximise stamina/mastery within reason, to smooth out the damage you're taking.

That said, you probably don't need to get too much crit, since if you keep attacking during the combo then you should generate plenty of stacks ready for when the combo ends. If you find that you're regularly starved for EB stacks then yeah, get more crit. But if you find you've got enough when the combo ends, then more stamina/mastery would help a lot.

[Gallahadd]

hehe Auramin, that quote you posted is mine from WoW-eu , I should note I was a) very very drunk and b) pissed off after doing an LFR which went spectacularly bad, due to a moron DK tank when I wrote that, so it's a LITTLE negative. Also note that list is which tank is easiest, not best

Even with that said, though I list them last, I still play a Brewmaster and wouldn't swap to my old pally or DK for ANYTHING. Yes Brews can be quite tricky, so for the average braindead LFR tank playing something like a DK is far easier, but if you put in the tiniest bit of effort you'll find Brewmasters are more than viable. The problem right now is that Brewmasters are still a pretty 'fresh' tank, remember DK's at the start of wrath? Remember what a fucking chore it was healing them through even the weak ass heroics in wrath? Now imagine if they'd been pugging raids back then, I guarentee there would have been just as much negativity on the forums than there is now about Monk tanks.

These days, when meter reading after LFR I often find I have slightly less damage taken than most other tanks, and more self healing than anything but a DK (and this is without Guard and Sanctuary of the Ox, including that I think we're almost on par with the average DK) so I'd say if you're willing to put in the effort, get an addon or two, you'll find you're just as good if not better than the average tank on the street.

PLUS... one thing I've noticed? We scale... REALLY well, the difference in my time to live now when I'm at ~480 gear is worlds better than when I was ~470, so I'm thinking as the expac progresses you'll see more and more Brewmasters. Unless of course all the other tanks scale just as well.....

[siccora]

yes our scale is ridiculously good. there where bosse like the wind or blademaster where my stagger went red and many times yellow. now i only have to worry about the yellow ones. or maybe it's because of the priest buff?

[Deleted]

PLUS... one thing I've noticed? We scale... REALLY well, the difference in my time to live now when I'm at ~480 gear is worlds better than when I was ~470, so I'm thinking as the expac progresses you'll see more and more Brewmasters. Unless of course all the other tanks scale just as well.....

I personally think we scale too well. I expect some sort of nerf to either elusive brew or shuffle percentages in next tier already. Probably also a nerf to this tier's 2pc bonus as it scales really well with gear, so unless they make next tier's 4pc bonus super awesome, I can imagine seeing a lot of brewmasters keep it.

Got a question: due to guild roster changes I swapped from healer to tank main-spec. For that reason I took tailoring and BS as 2 professions (best spirit boosts). While BS is really nice for tanking as well (640 haste or crit), the tailoring perk is 4k AP proc on cloak. I'm not sure yet whether I'll be changing to something better, however, is the swordguard embroidery even worth using over the 180 hit/200 stamina one for now?

[Kisho]

AP = bigger guards as far as mitigation goes. Which is nice and all, but there are WAAAYYY better alternatives. Remember that it's not just a choice between cloak enchants, but you're also missing out on the potential profession bonuses elsewhere.

I'm not sure without mathing it out/getting first hand experience with it, but I'd honestly doubt that 4k AP would be worth using over the stam or hit enchant either.

So yeah, just drop tailoring ASAP and take up something else. I'd recommend Jewelcrafting or Alchemy.

[SurrealNight]

So I had to drop Stam in AMR to 0.35 before it finally stopped telling me to switch to stam enchants/gems. At 0.65 it removes most of those suggestions but getting +80 stats for chest took the 0.35 to come back up. For the caps I'm at 7.48/7.56% which is nice but using AMR it either puts me way above the caps or way below them. So right now I wouldn't really suggest using the BrM settings at all.

As Madgod mentioned the WW option is working well still. 7.54/7.51% caps and it's easy to just manually adjust the Crit/Mastery -> Haste forges into crit instead if you are taking Ascension and are happy with your energy. Also, if it's using one of the +X/+Expertise gems in a red socket just put an Accurate Imperial Amethyst in a blue slot and you can go back to an agil + Haste/Crit in that red.

After running with Ascension w/ 14.5 energy (was to lazy to gem away from haste yet) I found that you really have to look at it in different ways depending on the fight.
1) Tank Swaps: ~14 energy is probably just fine. Empress was pretty easy to deal with as you would pick her up with a nice Shuffle buff + 15 stacks of EB ready to go, found I had Chi to throw out Chi Waves after the fields exploded even.
2) Single Tank: I'd probably have liked to have 15+ ER on Wind Lord, the start of the fight with the boss and adds beating on you is intense and requires frequent Yellow+ stagger at the same time you are trying to get ahead on Shuffle + keeping Guard up.

TL;DR
- AMR is busted, use the WW spec if your going to use it for hit/expertise caps.
- Haste + Ascension has more value in single tank fights than tank swaps (imo).

[Kisho]

Yeah, going to need a ton of haste on Wind Lord, haha. Not tanked it on normal myself yet (3 tanks in our raid team, had the second kill this week because we kept extending our raid lock to get into Terrace ASAP; my turn next!), but I can definitely see needing a ton of haste there.

[Deleted]

Tanked wind lord for first time yesterday as well and my god haste is awesome there. SCK + SCK + BoK is just under 5 seconds for 6 seconds shuffle uptime. We still have keg smash obviously for extra chi generation but I wasn't particularly swimming in it tbf. Tried to keep my shuffle up no matter what obviously (98% on kill yay) but some extra chi to clear staggers would have been nice. Also PB is off the global but would've REALLY liked it if we could use it during SCK on that fight. =/
Considered putting in some jabs if need be for quicker chi, but then again healers only really need to heal me almost during that phase and they could cope easily so went for more numbers. Outhps'ed 2/3 healers as well. ^^

[SurrealNight]

Yeah, going to need a ton of haste on Wind Lord, haha. Not tanked it on normal myself yet (3 tanks in our raid team, had the second kill this week because we kept extending our raid lock to get into Terrace ASAP; my turn next!), but I can definitely see needing a ton of haste there.

I agreed to swap weeks with our DK since we both hate going DPS but they are pretty decided that BrM is best on Wind Lord, 250k DPS (logs bugged or I would have improved my ranking =( ) and almost 35k HPS this week. Fun getting tell's from healers asking to stop making them look bad on the meters at the same time your obliterating the DPS charts.

Wind Lord is really the only boss in HoF(n) that I would have wanted more Chi on (Zor'lok is easy since he stops melee'ing you so often to channel crap) so I don't really want to tweak anything just for that fight at least on normal. I think 14.5 ER is OK but I would have liked more Chi for that fight, not sure if just switching to Power Strikes for the superior Chi generation would work out good as Ascension is more DPS which = faster fight anyways.

[Deleted]

On the Will of emperor fight would it be viable to switch stance due to the 10% speed increase during the dance? I've not done hc on this but seems most people take momentum over clerity for that encounter. Just wondering if it would be viable to take clerity and be in tiger stance for 10% move speed plus 3 rolls to dodge all 10 strikes or would we loose to much uptime on shuffle etc?

[SurrealNight]

No, switching to tiger stance will lock you out of Keg Smash which will waste a lot of Chi you could have generated while doing the dance (hence hurting your Shuffle/Guard). I find roll + momentum serves me just fine with practice, the only tricky one is the stomp which I usually use to roll away and then have him Death Grip me back after the stomp.