1. #1421
    I am Murloc! Gallahadd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Meteoria View Post
    Not really raid related, but has anyone else noticed Keg Smash not working on the Shado-Tien Behemoth for the Golden Lotus Dailies?
    Yup, it was REALLY fucking annoying, but now I'm exalted with those cockbags I've not had to worry about it in a while, I figured it was some kinda range bug and would be fixed with 5.1 but as you're complaining NOW I can assume it hasn't.... lazy blizz!
    Reading the A song of Ice and Fire series is like playing with an adorable puppy, then someone comes up out of nowhere and shoots the puppy, then punches you in the face

  2. #1422

    Gemming Agi, dps build

    Hello everyone,

    What do you think of gemming Agi (red = agi - yellow = agi/crit - blue = agi / hit) for a dps oriented itemisation on a BM monk ?

    I know secondary stats are better for tanking purpose but I was wondering if I could maximize my dps by gemming AGI or if i should focus on crit / haste too.

    Thanks !

  3. #1423
    If you're mainly worried about DPS then you're probably going to want to hard cap expertise (15%) as well as get the obvious hit cap. Once you have those, then yeah, gem in the way you suggest (assuming you have enough haste).

    Out of curiosity though, why are you wanting to do this? Trouble with enrage timers? It's not the place of the tank to worry about maximising DPS. The only other reason would be maximising Guard coverage on the raid with the Ox Statue. Which is nice, but again... That's the healer's concern, not yours.

    So I'm just a bit baffled really!

  4. #1424
    Actually for the Statue's Guard it's better to go with haste / crit since the "proc damage value" is AP dependent.

    I'm currently raiding 25 with perhaps too much healers (now that our stuff is better) and we won't consider dropping them for more dps. With that setup I consider that I don't need to maximize my EH or avoidance but perhaps give them a tougher job while maximizing my dps output.

    I was thinking that maybe crit & haste could be better (with the 2:1 ratio) than agi considering the already high AP value we get with vengeance. Agi seems to win the match, but I haven't done the maths to prove it right.

  5. #1425
    The Lightbringer SurrealNight's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ergar View Post
    Anyways, would you people have any tips regarding windlord? I will most likely be tanking adds, since i have better aoe than our other tank.
    You should be able to solo tank this unless you are under-geared. Set your CC targets and then pull with Dizzy Haze since it wont break any. I actually Jab first as some of the adds will get to you before the rest of the pack so I save KS until I know it will hit everything for solid agro. I open with Fort Brew as I find the initial pull + the burn phase are the highest damage parts of the fight. Dampen Harm will get eaten quickly with adds on you but is good for the burn phase after they are down. SCK instead of Jab's and this is a fight you probably want to spec into RJW for.

    You are going to be creating a bazillion GotO orbs so just watch your health and any time your down a chunk just step into a pile for full health. W/ the statue Guards, GotO, and EH on CD your healers will be bitching about your HPS =P

    The four elements, like man alone, are weak. But together they form the strong fifth element: Boron.

  6. #1426
    Quote Originally Posted by Theboot View Post
    I've been trying different builds with hard cap exp, go full haste, stam/mastery(did not last long) but whatever I do I am chi starved whenever I face a heavy hitting boss that gets me to yellow/red stagger in 2-3 hits. Any suggestion for what I can fix about my gear/playstyle?

    eu.battle.net/wow/en/character/stormscale/Thebrewer/advanced
    worldoflogs.com/reports/rt-41tqmrx9p1dasgce/ world of logs from blade lord. It was the most recent so not much to go on.

    Thanks in advance!
    The most obvious tip I can give you is that your Shuffle up-time is to low, this should be close to 100% if you're 1 tanking. I would also suggest replacing your trinkets and get your HP up, seems rather low and considering you are not going mastery I have the feeling the massive spike damage is what might be causing issues.

    cheers,
    Xarmon

  7. #1427
    Quote Originally Posted by The Madgod View Post
    Don't even need to look at your logs to tell you if you're getting chi starved you need to switch from ascension to power strikes for higher chi generation.
    I'm assuming energy starves = chi starved? I'm still using power strikes and am finding myself running out of energy super quick while tanking Wind Lord.

  8. #1428
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarmon View Post
    The most obvious tip I can give you is that your Shuffle up-time is to low, this should be close to 100% if you're 1 tanking. I would also suggest replacing your trinkets and get your HP up, seems rather low and considering you are not going mastery I have the feeling the massive spike damage is what might be causing issues.

    cheers,
    Xarmon
    Fun fact: If he's getting to yellow stagger within one to two boss hits, then he probably has shuffle up. The higher your stagger, the faster your stagger DoT ramps up (hence why mastery is so dependent on haste). Plus, from the log he posted, he has about a 74% uptime, which is fine, considering that the last 20% doesn't even require it.

    He's worried about chi starvation, which can be attributed to using more of your level 30 talent instead of other abilities, or a low base chi generation (the latter being more the case, here.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Zene View Post
    I'm assuming energy starves = chi starved? I'm still using power strikes and am finding myself running out of energy super quick while tanking Wind Lord.
    It does to an extent, unless you bank chi or energy. I run out of energy super quick on all bosses, but it's just because I spend it as quickly as I earn it to get mitigation out :P

    The interesting thing about Ascension vs Power Strikes is that you'll feel less energy starved with Asc. but it generates less chi per 40 energy than PS, since it gives 3 free chi every minute, so while it's a bit jankier on chi generation it does provide more output over a fight.

    Typically I'll only bank chi for certain big, predictable hits.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-12-10 at 09:40 PM.

  9. #1429
    I was looking at this

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...WMlJMbXc#gid=0

    and what I've extrapolated is that more crit is always more crits...


    While that may sound silly, what I was trying to figure out was...


    If I have say a hypothetical 1000 points of stat to play with that can either go to haste, or crit, if I stack it all in crit, am I getting less ACTUAL crits because I'm swinging less? Or if I stack it all in haste, am I actually getting MORE crits because I'm swinging more?

    And if that spreadsheet is accurate, I'm sold on the idea that once you're comfortable with your energy/chi generation and shuffle uptime, everything else should probably get moved into crit...

    Can anyone tell me if I've come to these conclusions logically or if I've missed some piece?

  10. #1430
    Quote Originally Posted by Trendy-Ideology View Post
    I was looking at this

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/...WMlJMbXc#gid=0

    and what I've extrapolated is that more crit is always more crits...


    While that may sound silly, what I was trying to figure out was...


    If I have say a hypothetical 1000 points of stat to play with that can either go to haste, or crit, if I stack it all in crit, am I getting less ACTUAL crits because I'm swinging less? Or if I stack it all in haste, am I actually getting MORE crits because I'm swinging more?

    And if that spreadsheet is accurate, I'm sold on the idea that once you're comfortable with your energy/chi generation and shuffle uptime, everything else should probably get moved into crit...

    Can anyone tell me if I've come to these conclusions logically or if I've missed some piece?
    You're correct that once you get a good chi generation for your current progression that going into crit is very lucrative.

    And you will get more crits from putting stats into crit, relative to haste. Not sure if that bit was actually a question or if you were just showing your thought process prior to finding an answer.

  11. #1431
    The interesting thing about Ascension vs Power Strikes is that you'll feel less energy starved with Asc. but it generates less chi per 40 energy than PS, since it gives 3 free chi every minute, so while it's a bit jankier on chi generation it does provide more output over a fight.
    I read this everywhere, and you're right in theory. BUT that is only the case if you Jab exactly after 20 seconds which is only possible if you monitor that very specifically and I doubt many people do.

  12. #1432
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarmon View Post
    I read this everywhere, and you're right in theory. BUT that is only the case if you Jab exactly after 20 seconds which is only possible if you monitor that very specifically and I doubt many people do.
    The only way for you to lose one of those bonus chi is to wait 20 seconds before using it, so over the course of an entire fight, you'd be correct in saying that it wouldn't average out to 3 chi, however power strikes STILL provides more chi overall. You're simply stating a technicality that, while important to consider, still won't change matters much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Morion View Post
    This is false, you gain the buff Power Strikes every 20 sec even if you don't use Jab. The icd on Power Strikes begins when you get the buff, not when you consume it, so you can delay your Jab, as long as you use it at least once in the 20 sec window (and you will), you'll still get the maximum benefit from Power Strikes.
    That I did not know. Huh. That's really cool, to keep things nice and consistent.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-12-11 at 11:25 AM.

  13. #1433
    Quote Originally Posted by Xarmon View Post
    I read this everywhere, and you're right in theory. BUT that is only the case if you Jab exactly after 20 seconds which is only possible if you monitor that very specifically and I doubt many people do.
    This is false, you gain the buff Power Strikes every 20 sec even if you don't use Jab. The icd on Power Strikes begins when you get the buff, not when you consume it, so you can delay your Jab, as long as you use it at least once in the 20 sec window (and you will), you'll still get the maximum benefit from Power Strikes. A time frame could look like :

    0s : you get PS
    2s : you Jab and get extra Chi
    20s : you get PS
    24s : you Jab and get extra Chi
    40s : you get PS
    ...

  14. #1434
    Quote Originally Posted by Morion View Post
    This is false, you gain the buff Power Strikes every 20 sec even if you don't use Jab. The icd on Power Strikes begins when you get the buff, not when you consume it, so you can delay your Jab, as long as you use it at least once in the 20 sec window (and you will), you'll still get the maximum benefit from Power Strikes. A time frame could look like :

    0s : you get PS
    2s : you Jab and get extra Chi
    20s : you get PS
    24s : you Jab and get extra Chi
    40s : you get PS
    ...
    That is really interesting if that is true. Reading the talent again I can see what you are saying.

    cheers,
    Xarmon

  15. #1435
    Can someone clarify for me if the reason you're all discussing Power Strike is because it's still competitive with Ascension or better?

    Also I recall reading that at high haste (62xx something) it's break-even with PS for chi generation due to Ascension being a straight % increase to your existing energy regen.

    If that's accurate, then I'd personally stick with Ascension simply because I like the way it feels far more than PS.

    I like the extra room 5 max chi affords, I like the faster energy. If there's a strong case past low haste level chi generation superiority I've not yet seen it. Perhaps someone could explain it in a way that more clearly explains why it's superior if that's the case.

    edit1: Also Mad, I find it interesting to note that you appear to have previously shared my same main, while having appeared to re-main your monk tank in MoP, as I did.

    edit2: And what's up with your expertise? Not saying I know it to be bad or good, just that you're at a weird spot halfway between hard and softcap.... are you just unable to reach hard cap or... idk. Just wondering what you know that I don't.
    Last edited by Trendy-Ideology; 2012-12-12 at 09:14 AM.

  16. #1436
    PS is still good, yeah. It'll give more Chi over the course of a fight, while Ascension allows you to stack crit instead of haste and still have enough chi/energy to do stuff with. You could use Ascension and get enough haste to 'break even' with PS, as you say. It's personal preference and what works best for you, essentially. I don't think there's a cut and dry 'best' option here.

    As for the expertise thing, while I obviously can't speak for Madgod, there's one thing that should be kept in mind... the concept of the 'soft cap' for expertise is kind of a fallacy. From 0% all the way to 15%, expertise has the exact same value. It doesn't increase or decrease in value depending on how much of it you have. This is because it first reduces chance to be dodged, then reduces chance to be parried: it doesn't do both at the same time like in prior expansions.

    So I'd wager that all he's doing is getting an amount of expertise that he feels comfortable with for threat purposes, or is just the amount that he naturally gets from gear, or whatever. Of course, if I'm wrong, I apologise and I'm sure he'll correct me on this point. :P

    On that note now that the DPS in my guild are getting geared up I'm noticing some threat issues at the start of fights that wasn't there before, which usually happens because of missed/parried keg smashes. Kind of frustrating.

  17. #1437
    The crazy minmaxer in me would find weapons with expertise, start fights with them, and swap to something more suited for the length of the fight after agro is established.

    Of course getting extra weapons is never easy sometimes.

  18. #1438
    Quote Originally Posted by Trendy-Ideology View Post
    Can someone clarify for me if the reason you're all discussing Power Strike is because it's still competitive with Ascension or better?

    Also I recall reading that at high haste (62xx something) it's break-even with PS for chi generation due to Ascension being a straight % increase to your existing energy regen.

    If that's accurate, then I'd personally stick with Ascension simply because I like the way it feels far more than PS.
    The actual point is over 9000 haste rating with ascension to get the same chi per minute as power strikes. There's a lot more factors to it, but if you're looking to get as much chi generation as possible, PS, until that rather high break point, will be superior. Even if you could reach that break point, you wouldn't want to go past it to where ascension would be even better than PS, since there's a point where extra chi is no longer useful.

    Ascension is nice because you can more easily control the amount of chi you have, be able to get chi more quickly within a shorter period of time, and get to a point in energy regen that feels comfortable. Power strikes, on the other hand, just wins at raw output. Which is better depends a lot on personal preference, your effectiveness at maintaining shuffle, and how many times you need to purify your DoT within a given space of time. The more you need to use PB, the more PS can benefit you.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trendy-Ideology View Post
    edit2: And what's up with your expertise? Not saying I know it to be bad or good, just that you're at a weird spot halfway between hard and softcap.... are you just unable to reach hard cap or... idk. Just wondering what you know that I don't.
    No I can reach hard cap just fine. I've merely been looking around for a point that's comfortable for me. Tried no cap, and that was annoying. Tried the hard cap, but it felt a bit clunky and slow. Lowered it a bit and it's better. Will probably try closer to the soft cap later in the week.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kisho View Post
    As for the expertise thing, while I obviously can't speak for Madgod, there's one thing that should be kept in mind... the concept of the 'soft cap' for expertise is kind of a fallacy. From 0% all the way to 15%, expertise has the exact same value. It doesn't increase or decrease in value depending on how much of it you have. This is because it first reduces chance to be dodged, then reduces chance to be parried: it doesn't do both at the same time like in prior expansions.

    So I'd wager that all he's doing is getting an amount of expertise that he feels comfortable with for threat purposes, or is just the amount that he naturally gets from gear, or whatever. Of course, if I'm wrong, I apologise and I'm sure he'll correct me on this point. :P
    No, spot on, old chap!

    Well... TECHNICALLY it's not for threat, it's for less janky resource generation. I prefer the consistency that higher level of expertise gives me. The extra damage (and therefore threat)'s just a bonus :P

    Actually I'm probably going to go even lower to 7.5, just because we've just bolstered the tanking core to four guys, so we all have to fish up an offset, and I can just use my brewmaster gear as such.

    Or I can gear up my warlock. Lawl.
    Last edited by The Mister Madgod; 2012-12-12 at 09:44 AM.

  19. #1439
    I must admit I do like that about Monks. I've never really felt in any other class that there was any level of 'personal preference' involved: it was all, 'read this guide! Do it this way! ANY OTHER WAY IS FAAAAAAIIIIILLLLLLL'; with Monks, it's 'well this way works, but so does this, just get what you feel comfortable with really'.

    I mean yeah, there's some things that just don't work at all, but the leeway we're given to make our own decisions is rather refreshing I find. Not sure if this is a general MoP thing or a Monk only thing.

    As clarification, I'm referring to stuff like hit/exp caps (getting an amount that works for you), and the PS/Asc debate, where both are good for different reasons and it's up to you to decide which works for you.

    And that's my 'yay I love my class' message for the week!

  20. #1440
    because of that missing kegs i'm with 15% exp and i love it. only problem is the switch between BM and WW so i'm second MW now lol

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