The Brewmaster Tanking Guide [5.4]

[Deleted]

Im guessing a 2H would be better than DW if the item level difference is say... 26 levels?

[Vasilisa]

Im guessing a 2H would be better than DW if the item level difference is say... 26 levels?

Without a doubt.

[Deleted]

Without a doubt.

Dammit. I prefer DW so much more.

[Vasilisa]

Tell me more. I haven't been dual-wielding since the end of previous tier.

[Deleted]

2h > dw if the average itemlevel is ~8-10lvls higher. Maybe not just a TF but normal vs. heroic or lfr vs. normal is definitely reason enough to let go of dw.

[Deleted]

Tell me more. I haven't been dual-wielding since the end of previous tier.

I had Tyrannical weps up until now where I got the Pandaren Immaculate Spear? I think that's what it's called.

[lairpie]

There are lots of opinions on where the line is between 2h and dual wielding, but I've never seen any math to support anything outside this range:

For stuff that hits really, really hard, or is mostly magic damage, 2h has a slight edge due mostly to the extra stamina. Dual wielding provides more damage and more avoidance, but only by a slight enough amount that you wouldn't drop much ilvl to dual wield. Dropping from a TF 2her to 2 non TF 1hers is about even in terms of damage output, but in a rough tie the one with a bunch of extra stamina wins.

There's going to be some variance based on the actual allocation of secondary stats, whether you'd be upgrading something else by not swapping weapons, your raid's need for damage, etc, but you're basically looking at thunderforged mainhand and non tf offhand being slightly better than a thunderforged 2h. If you'r egetting hit really hard, tip the scales towards the 2her. If you really need the damage, tip towards the DW, but there's no argument for losing very many item levels either way.

With better and better gear it gets even murkier where part of the defensive benefit of crit (ie EB generation) gets capped where every white swing is either a crit or a miss. At that point, you're limiting how effective more crit is by using 1hers, which even without stacking crit too hard, you're going to be at that point next tier. At that point, there gets to be a whole additional interaction where swapping to a 2her lets more of your crit be defensive, allowing you to actually do more damage with a 2her, for a given amount of "defensiveness" than you could do with DW, though you can get more raw damage out of dual wielding. It gets messy, but in the end, we're talking about pretty small differences so use the best weapon you have.

I'm actually going to take a look at the brewmaster simcraft module and see if i can either help out on that, or make something similar. The main problem is you really have to model healing to model BrM damage taken / damage done. Things like using expel harm in place of jab if you're low enough hp to not waste it, using expel harm in place of everything if you're scary low, when to purify, things like that have a pretty big impact on ability usage, stat values etc. Ideally I'd like to build a tank / tank healing VS boss sim at some point, but need to figure out whether adding that into simcraft is better, or building it separately.

[Bryce]

Were there any 5.4 trinkets anywhere here? Like the math on them, discussion, etc? Can't really seem to find a solid place for them.

[lairpie]

Were there any 5.4 trinkets anywhere here? Like the math on them, discussion, etc? Can't really seem to find a solid place for them.

Mostly there's a lot of people going "uh... i don't even know what to think" in various places such as
http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...M-5-4-BiS-list or on the EJ forums. In a way, it is good item / class design that there's enough parity not to have anything resembling a consensus on what trinkets to want, but I think it's kinda meh design to have items that are really good sometimes and bad sometimes, resulting in not a single trinket that i'm excited about.

[siccora]

I would look at the stats these 1H or 2H gives me and then make a decision. i have 2 1H hc weapons and 1 2H hc tf weapon. i go with the 2 H weapon because i feel like i'm doing more dmg, love the extra mastery. i'm way over crit cap with that 1H weapons and so i think i get more EB stacks faster with that 2H staff.

[Vasilisa]

I would look at the stats these 1H or 2H gives me and then make a decision. i have 2 1H hc weapons and 1 2H hc tf weapon. i go with the 2 H weapon because i feel like i'm doing more dmg, love the extra mastery. i'm way over crit cap with that 1H weapons and so i think i get more EB stacks faster with that 2H staff.

What is the crit 'cap', because I didn't find such info.

[Crevan]

What is the crit 'cap', because I didn't find such info.

It's the amount of crit required to entirely push non-crits off the combat table. Luckily for you, Hinalover made a nice summary at EJ just yesterday.

[Protozoa7]

It's the amount of crit required to entirely push non-crits off the combat table. Luckily for you, Hinalover made a nice summary at EJ just yesterday.

Here is the part people are looking for:

One-hander formula:

103% - 24% (glancing) - (19% - Hit Overflow) (Dual-welding penalty) - (7.5% - player hit %) - (7.5% - player exp %).

Meaning if your hit and exp capped, Crit cap is 60%.

Two-Hander formula:

103% - 24% (glancing) - (7.5% - player hit %) - (7.5% - player exp %).

Meaning if your hit and exp capped, Crit cap is 79%.

Keep in mind BrM expertise cap is 15% so you can rework the numbers easily to show that.

[adalovelace]

I'm actually going to take a look at the brewmaster simcraft module and see if i can either help out on that, or make something similar.

I'd definitely start with SimCraft. Theck (of sacredduty/maintankadin) has created a smoothness metric (TMI) as a way of evaluating tanking stats and survivability. This has already been integrated into SimCraft, assuming the individual class modules work correctly. I took a look at the Monk module and some of the BrM stuff isn't working correctly. I original wanted to get it up to snuff, but I've been busy (lazy). Off the top of my head, there are a few big things that need to be fixed:

Elusive Brew: It looks like the module tracks the procced stacks correctly. I had it set up to to use EB any time you're at 6 or more stacks and it seemed to do this correctly. The problem is that it appears to only give you one second of the buff no matter how many stacks you have when you use EB. This craters the value of crit and other stats for TMI.
Self-healing: Expel Harm and other sources of self healing don't work. I don't remember if Chi Wave did or not. Also, no healing from orbs, though that's a little trickier on how you'd want to handle it.

There were also issues with different set bonuses not being implemented. There are probably some other things that are off, but those were the ones I noticed.

[SurrealNight]

http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...?highlight=TMI
Already been discussed here there are a lot of complications BrM bring to that metric that I doubt have been accounted for.

[Sunnydee]

Good morning all! (or whatever it is where you live )

i got 2 issues i kinda would loev some assistance with:

first being Elusive Brew> amount of stacks/ready to use, i tend to forget this awesome ability alot of times even tho i got it binded to my mouse, curious if someone has an awesome WA to help me get more use of it?

secondly, i raid activly as dk and paladin, both being tanks, but seem to, well not sure how to put this, Basically i feel extremly squishy, and the fact that i forget EB alot, should i slap a bit more mastery until ive gotten used to hgaving EB back to back or should i just punish my healers a bit until i got it straight? (mainly alt run on monk btw)

[kaiadam]

Bind it to chi wave and you should be set, generally, 95% of the time. If you're intent on more min/maxing, what I use is:

dSZdfaWsfLQDrGABkkyFkQQzsOMRIknBHUPII62KOFtHDQq7fTBi7hi9tcOHbugNa8zOmub1GbKHtshKq6ukk0XuKZPOklublLazXqLLt0dfqpv6XKWZv6WuAQIAYamDQUOGCvcQlR66G2ib48qvBwK2ofDAs9xrmnGkFxGAKcKLPOIrtigpG6KaXZiixdOQ7POKgLIs51kkX3uuK5eZSkzbWcGzwGfyA6ENJbagR8yAdugV6z1kmqSqKl1yyxYmRlI8wxyK2zrgOtNfbvMLAmSlxocowxQXWUKzwhV6zx36WLfUpzDRdxoWcr38iN1cDd2BEKZMfrERdkqv7qRRnqSW9jUiYBDHrANdSUiYBDHrANfzGolCFcePDoWUU1HlhfIoRf6gehRfaaTRnq2yIl1yyxUmZXjMzDPgd7sMzbCCW00mE1ZguiXHfGWIzD8QN1cLwwnY8Y9CGDH4U5rEHPPAGztcu0MtAwubLzHiTZQgT4VKfzv(LzooXw3IHDPgHrN9Mh5SbDB0fHDH4U5rEy5t1aZ2WHelMole5sng2LmtNohNdZSUuJHDjZSR6JrqaWonbEHalaw4(enY8Y9CGfzv(LzooXgkcxT5bfOb5dMo7Q(yC0Q8CCAc8cbwaSoE1ZAHsl7cXDZJ8ctt1aZMeOOnN0SOckZc44GPPz8QNnOqIdlaHfZEZJC2anmIamcgbkqHLgyYVlOanBv9X4mYc3NSQpghTkphyHOBEKZAHUblCFYQ(yeeaCGfzvE2qr4QnpOaHt(Gz1iZl3Zbwis7SQrl(lzH7tGiTZb2fI7Mh5HLpvdmBdhsSy2uymUkSioqNfICPgd7sMzx1hJJwLNJttGxiWcGoDokeZSUuJHDjZSoE1ZAHsl7Q(yeeaStZjG5j08yxiUBEKxyAQgy2KafT5KMfvqz2BEKZg0Trxe2fI7Mh5HLpvdmBdhsSyw4(Kv9Xiia4aRcdiYzNbw4(anGiNdSkmGixGQxADdj78NvwKv5xM54eBOiC1MhuGgKpy6SqK2zvJw8xYc44GPPz8QNnOqIdlaHftNfICPgd7sMPtNoRgaBOiC1MhuGgKpywa6vnAXdIcdelii)YuRIpxquyG25AXPJAhFIsd0SK8iC1M3gpB0WcGzw4(efr7UCGvAepZSkHrxZmD6SW9jR6vWbw4(efgkXzDoWUQxbZSRgHfphNOZQiA3Lz2vJWINDMf44StNoD2LDsWGtWZKGNaJ1KJtGdmWOtc

&

dCt5caWsvOAxurETki7tfOzQkzUQiMTOUPke3MkzNQk7LSBq7xLQFsfmmvP(TKgkQkdwLYWPQoOkkhtcNtLWcfPLQcyXuPwoLEOkPEQYJf45snvHMSiMo0fvfUQQOlJCDGnQcPXPI0MvvTDj6Wu8xQY0uj57QensvuDEuLrliJhvvNuqTmQOonk3tfkpJk0NrLVPcQvHIAU0s0suuZsCSkmYZN0ybvOg)o8)3eQVtFRLRMef1an5fKnDRunBntkQ5cKrMIcfQbAYR9PaLQ1(uGIAndYLj9viud0Kxq1LBdQuTGSPBf1AgKltAhXHVJluOgaIwghhzvuddzjd(eYqnyfsc1yjApYGMvs3VLAPlVFZzntscdzvOj7HwghhzBf1xHIAOLXXrwf1qE(KMbynATpLZHt0kC(0lC8cTg4MkjioW)pJFnVRpBrVfp7arTGkaIo4twdwTAh8yAnWnvsqKpl9Z4xB8941lnqtETpLZHtuQwqfarTch1OscIANtMmgsd001vaevQg04IAf1xH2JmOzL09BPw6sHAaid18ZgEKvlHCd()J88jTZF8IVJ(8LqnaeTmooYQOqHc1maSk3AOLXXrwf1qE(KwJge0AGM8A0GGwPAujbrTyilzW73gdbgKvHAGM8WqwYGpHmuPAyilzWNqgQbRqsRrdcA95OgOjpaKHkvdaPscIAgawfQbbUIwghhzB95SwcR9ZgEHdQqTWqKS)Ma6KWbvyFIXnlZqEEUQWd5rzqZkjtMeQ1AfoDLth2PI3AL6R4Q3Vfkb

- 99% of the time when that button lights up, you should press it. (For those who care, the logic is:

if not tanking anything, nothing happens
if stacks >= 13, button lights up
if stacks >= 6, and staggering is not up, button lights up


Letting shuffle drop is usually the root cause of feeling squishy about 85-90% of the time. Using guard on cd is another 5-10%. Need logs to verify which

[Sunnydee]

Thanks kaia, well the squishy feeling is prob more me then a real issue, im used to having some sort of backup mechanism for larger hits etc while being on dk /pala, my shuffle is rarerly under 15sec so dont think thats a problem

will try the WA asap im done with mog run in bwd

[Pazx]

is everyone still sticking with the same talents going into 5.4 or have some things become more desirable now?

[arcuro]

is everyone still sticking with the same talents going into 5.4 or have some things become more desirable now?

Rushing Jade Wind got a realy nice rework.
RJW replaces Spinning Crane Kick

The new RJW costs the same chi as SCK, generate the same chi but its no longer channeled and its duration is 6 sec
so in heavy AoE-fights you can replace jab with rjw and kann still fight wile rjw is up.

i am looking forward to this talent for trash and bosses like spoils of pandaria