[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Build Changes Discussion Thread

[rogas]

Since we're gonna have a whole bunch of cd's to track in mop. I'm allready wondering wich addons to use. Totemtimers can't handly all those cd's right? Any idea's so far...?

[Deleted]

Since we're gonna have a whole bunch of cd's to track in mop. I'm allready wondering wich addons to use. Totemtimers can't handly all those cd's right? Any idea's so far...?

I track all my cooldowns on live using powerauras. Shorter use on cooldown abilities like lava burst/riptide appear in the middle of my screen, longer ones like elemental mastery/SLT are grouped in an area off to the left. Takes a while to set things up just how you like it but it's by far the best addon I've ever come across.

Another nice little trick is Coolline. it just makes a bar that you can stick somewhere in your screen giving you an idea of how long it is until your cooldown is available. It's a logarithmic scale so it covers 1 second up to 6 minutes clearly and it tracks all sorts of things, from potions to Heroism, Lava burst, Shocks, Riptide, Unleash...etc etc etc.

Assuming they're both maintained in Mists (I don't see why not) I'll just stick with those.

[littleking]

i was very excited for ancestral guidance, but after seeing nature's vigil for druids it now feels very underpowered

yes nature's vigil is a 90 tier talent, but for 50% and lasts 3 times longer, makes me feel like they could at least buff ancestral guidance to 50 or even 60%

[Deleted]

i was very excited for ancestral guidance, but after seeing nature's vigil for druids it now feels very underpowered

yes nature's vigil is a 90 tier talent, but for 50% and lasts 3 times longer, makes me feel like they could at least buff ancestral guidance to 50 or even 60%

Thankyou, you've given me a great way to fudge in the most important segment of what GC said:

druids won't do lower damage or healing compared to other classes just because some other class has an unambiguous throughput increasing talent at level 90. Classes are balanced around their whole package.

It doesn't matter where the power of a spec comes from, Base class abilities, Spec abilities or talents, so long as the class ends up competitive and talent/glyph choices can have a meaningful affect on your chances of success then Blizzard are happy.

[Deleted]

Thankyou, you've given me a great way to fudge in the most important segment of what GC said:

druids won't do lower damage or healing compared to other classes just because some other class has an unambiguous throughput increasing talent at level 90. Classes are balanced around their whole package.

It doesn't matter where the power of a spec comes from, Base class abilities, Spec abilities or talents, so long as the class ends up competitive and talent/glyph choices can have a meaningful affect on your chances of success then Blizzard are happy.

Very true Curdle. That quote from Ghostcrawler is one that most definitely needs to be read by every single player on this forum - not just the shaman section but all of mmo-champion. The game is not a 1-1 ability comparison. Each ability is part of a package and its the package that is balanced, not the abilities.

[rogas]

I track all my cooldowns on live using powerauras. Shorter use on cooldown abilities like lava burst/riptide appear in the middle of my screen, longer ones like elemental mastery/SLT are grouped in an area off to the left. Takes a while to set things up just how you like it but it's by far the best addon I've ever come across.

Another nice little trick is Coolline. it just makes a bar that you can stick somewhere in your screen giving you an idea of how long it is until your cooldown is available. It's a logarithmic scale so it covers 1 second up to 6 minutes clearly and it tracks all sorts of things, from potions to Heroism, Lava burst, Shocks, Riptide, Unleash...etc etc etc.

Assuming they're both maintained in Mists (I don't see why not) I'll just stick with those.

coolline is a bit like fortexorcist i think ...

I'm using power aura's for special raidwarnings during raids atm ... but i've noticed this addon uses a lot of addon memory. Does that mean more lag? Or lower fps?

[shaman132]

Classes are balanced around their whole package.......
why these days i see only around 50 comp with enh shaman in every battle group ?
and around 500 comp with rogue?
(I mean 3vs3)

[Endus]

While other classes are given blue feedback, we are not (as usually). Could someone from US please ask blizz why there? http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4768478981

There's a simple reason.

You aren't guaranteed feedback, nor are they required or expected to provide it at all during a beta test. The fact is, they HAVE responded to Enhancement concerns in a blue post already. Would it be nice for us to get more feedback? Sure. Are we being unfairly overlooked? No.

Since we're gonna have a whole bunch of cd's to track in mop. I'm allready wondering wich addons to use. Totemtimers can't handly all those cd's right? Any idea's so far...?

I'll be updating my Weakauras setup to handle MoP talents and such. I have no idea how I'm going to design it as of yet, and I don't plan on starting any time soon, but if Weakauras gets a beta version created, I'll be using it to have a package ready for launch.

The current package doesn't include totem timers, but I'm planning on adding those as well; I'm currently using Totemtimers but basically only for the timers, not the rest of the package, and it seems like a waste to have both that AND Weakauras running.

---------- Post added 2012-05-08 at 10:02 AM ----------

I'm using power aura's for special raidwarnings during raids atm ... but i've noticed this addon uses a lot of addon memory. Does that mean more lag? Or lower fps?

Depends on what you mean by "a lot of memory", and what your system specs are. CPU cycles are usually a bigger factor to addons impacting performance. The 6 megabytes of memory an addon uses is only an issue if you're already using all your RAM; my system for instance has 8 gigs and memory's never an issue.

[Meeka]

Conductivity should increase the duration of Healing Rain as well OR make it instant cast.

I cant imagine dps shamans having to cast for 2 seconds for a 10 seconds of off heals and IF only they are standing in the healing rain

Spriests who divine hymn for up to 8 seconds, ferals who pop into bear form for frenzied regen for over 15 seconds with their 4 piece, boomkins/ferals who pop tranq for up to 8 seconds, and ele shamans who have already been putting down HR for heavy healing phases on progression fights would like to have a word with this. It's also not that hard to stand in HR as it covers a rather large area and the raid is often stacked for heavy healing, though situational as it is.

I, too, see conductivity as rather lackluster for resto shamans with TC as it stands on PTR right now (unless, of course, my math was wrong). I'd be more interested to see it when everything is more balanced. For now, it certainly isn't worth it imo.

[Taalyn]

Players are saying they're seeing it as 20% shared amongst those in the HR, not 20% to each player.

[Tactic6995]

Looking at the new druid talent: Nature's Vigil. It is looking like a much, much more OP version of ancestral guidance.

-Increases all damage and healing done by 30% for 30 sec, with a 3 min cooldown. While active, all healing spells also damage a nearby target for 50% of healing done, and all damage spells and abilities also heal a nearby friendly target for 50% of the damage done.

What do you think about this in contrast to ancestral guidance, do you think it should be buffed, as it is only 40% of damage/healing and only lasts for 10sec, or do you think since Nature's vigil being a level 90 talent it justifies itself for being so much better than ancestral guidance?

[Radux]

Players are saying they're seeing it as 20% shared amongst those in the HR, not 20% to each player.

Yeah Undefetter and I are in beta testing it right now. It's shared.

When I originally tested it (everyone getting 20%) -- it was several builds ago.
So yeah. Things are playing as intended.

[Deleted]

Classes are balanced around their whole package.......
why these days i see only around 50 comp with enh shaman in every battle group ?
and around 500 comp with rogue?
(I mean 3vs3)

I've a feeling you've entirely missed the point here I'm afraid.
what GC was saying is that when considering whether a class is balanced they look at how the class is doing overall, not how powerful their talents are.
If an enhance gains nothing from their talents and is doing 100k dps, while an elemental is doing 80k dps from normal spells and an additional 20k dps due to talents, that's still balanced.

[Blitond]

Classes are balanced around their whole package.......
why these days i see only around 50 comp with enh shaman in every battle group ?
and around 500 comp with rogue?
(I mean 3vs3)

Largely because resto has been so good this x-pac.

But yeah your missing the point of the comment. And PvP isn't balanced around 1 vs 1 or even 2 vs 2.

[Deleted]

Largely because resto has been so good this x-pac.

This is a point I was discussing with an Enhance shaman in my guild. The biggest reason there is a lack of Enhance Shaman in PvP is because of how good Resto Shaman are at the moment, and how easy it is to respec in PvP, unlike in PvE where to respec it can take weeks and weeks of farming, in PvP you can get to the best stuff from the previous season in a couple of days and if you have been doing PvP regularly that season you likely have enough Conquest points to at least buy weapons for the new spec.

Resto is significantly represented in top end Arena, where class stacking is vastly more important than it is in PvE. With the ease of gear swapping so quickly in PvP the lack of DPS shaman is heavily skewed because of the amount of 'Enhance Shaman' or 'Elemental Shaman' (though Elemental is actually not horribly represented, its not great by any means but not terrible) that are playing Resto because of how good it is.

[Teriz]

Looking at the new druid talent: Nature's Vigil. It is looking like a much, much more OP version of ancestral guidance.

-Increases all damage and healing done by 30% for 30 sec, with a 3 min cooldown. While active, all healing spells also damage a nearby target for 50% of healing done, and all damage spells and abilities also heal a nearby friendly target for 50% of the damage done.

What do you think about this in contrast to ancestral guidance, do you think it should be buffed, as it is only 40% of damage/healing and only lasts for 10sec, or do you think since Nature's vigil being a level 90 talent it justifies itself for being so much better than ancestral guidance?

Thing is, Nature's Vigil is pretty superior to the Shaman level 90 talents as well, so it being a level 90 talent doesn't really fly either.

A lot more than Ancestral Guidance needs a buff in the Shaman talent tree. Hopefully we'll get another talent pass really soon.

[Endus]

Thing is, Nature's Vigil is pretty superior to the Shaman level 90 talents as well, so it being a level 90 talent doesn't really fly either.

A lot more than Ancestral Guidance needs a buff in the Shaman talent tree. Hopefully we'll get another talent pass really soon.

I guess I'll repeat it.

druids won't do lower damage or healing compared to other classes just because some other class has an unambiguous throughput increasing talent at level 90. Classes are balanced around their whole package.
Source

One to one comparisons across classes between talents or abilities does not work. For instance, nobody's looking at the Shaman tree and going "OMG, Shaman get two DPS throughput tiers, and three HPS throughput tiers if they're resto! And Druids only get one throughput tier, and one "do the other role" tier! Shaman are brokenly OP compared to druids!" Which if you were going to do one-to-one comparisons, is what you SHOULD be saying.

Picking one talent of theirs and saying "that looks better than one of ours" and ignoring the effect of all our other talents is not legitimate. You need to consider the entire class as a unit to determine talent balance. One reason Nature's Vigil might be better than anything Shaman bring is because we already bring way more.

[Teriz]

I guess I'll repeat it.

druids won't do lower damage or healing compared to other classes just because some other class has an unambiguous throughput increasing talent at level 90. Classes are balanced around their whole package.
Source

One to one comparisons across classes between talents or abilities does not work. For instance, nobody's looking at the Shaman tree and going "OMG, Shaman get two DPS throughput tiers, and three HPS throughput tiers if they're resto! And Druids only get one throughput tier, and one "do the other role" tier! Shaman are brokenly OP compared to druids!" Which if you were going to do one-to-one comparisons, is what you SHOULD be saying.

Picking one talent of theirs and saying "that looks better than one of ours" and ignoring the effect of all our other talents is not legitimate. You need to consider the entire class as a unit to determine talent balance. One reason Nature's Vigil might be better than anything Shaman bring is because we already bring way more.

Fair enough, but the lack of updates on the Shaman side of things is getting depressing.

Case in point, the update on the new beta build on the front page.

[Deleted]

Fair enough, but the lack of updates on the Shaman side of things is getting depressing.

Case in point, the update on the new beta build on the front page.

There could be a load of Shaman improvements on the way, don't give up hope!! (although as a whole, I'm quite happy with the direction- just a few tweaks and get the numbers numbers balanced) Although I'll concede that the lack of recent feedback reminded me of the Cataclysm beta and that didn't end well for us.

[Manu9]

There could be a load of Shaman improvements on the way, don't give up hope!! (although as a whole, I'm quite happy with the direction- just a few tweaks and get the numbers numbers balanced) Although I'll concede that the lack of recent feedback reminded me of the Cataclysm beta and that didn't end well for us.

That hope led to a lack of real action, stop hoping and start doing... be more vocal.