[OFFICIAL] MoP Beta Build Changes Discussion Thread

[Protoman]

I agree. Mainly because Frost Shock is an "optional" ability, as you have to sacrifice fs/es to use it. I guess as enh it is less a problem, but especially as ele I think imp GW is to important, as they have a harder time putting Frost Shock to use.
Unleash Fury FB could be considered of the same level, but is a talent. I think we should have at least one all-shaman baseline escape/"gap closing" ability.

Yea, shaman has no standard gap closer/escape mechanic without improved ghost wolf. Frost shock alone is not enough. I don't think any other class has to glyph for their gap closer/escape.....Druids can still dispel snares by shifting, even Ret has their "emancipate" dispel snare effect as part of their spec. I really do not understand why they would make GW instant but then make us glyph for the snare effect when it used to be a passive part of GW. Glyphs should be about choices, flexibility, and customization. Spending 2 talent points was alot easier and less of a drawback then using up 1/3 glyph slots to maintain the same mobility we had in Cata.

Well, according to link which can be found in sticky thread with all shaman changes it seems that Primal Elementalist could possibly remove cooldown of elemental totems... however noone can backup this and even if it would be true, it can change to almost anything.

However, I hope it will be true as having control over my dumb elementals was allways my dream. But having them permanently... damn, that would be something!

There is too many questions about this talent anyway like will caster's stat locking still work for elemental when u place him. Noone can these answer yet.

Highly doubt it will be a perma pet. I don't think they want to turn us into a pet class, would be a big change in playstyle. They seem to have smarter AI in general, but a pet bar even for the regular cd would be nice.....even if it just has the pet commands and no abilities. Pet's usually scale dynamically with stats as well, not snapshot, and I think even the regular version scales dynamically too. But now Feral Spirits doesn't anymore, which needs to change.

[manu9]

Yea, shaman has no standard gap closer/escape mechanic without improved ghost wolf. Frost shock alone is not enough. I don't think any other class has to glyph for their gap closer/escape.....Druids can still dispel snares by shifting, even Ret has their "emancipate" dispel snare effect as part of their spec. I really do not understand why they would make GW instant but then make us glyph for the snare effect when it used to be a passive part of GW. Glyphs should be about choices, flexibility, and customization. Spending 2 talent points was alot easier and less of a drawback then using up 1/3 glyph slots to maintain the same mobility we had in Cata.




Highly doubt it will be a perma pet. I don't think they want to turn us into a pet class, would be a big change in playstyle. They seem to have smarter AI in general, but a pet bar even for the regular cd would be nice.....even if it just has the pet commands and no abilities. Pet's usually scale dynamically with stats as well, not snapshot, and I think even the regular version scales dynamically too. But now Feral Spirits doesn't anymore, which needs to change.

I'm not very happy about our glyphs atm, I think they need A LOT of work, and we are yet to see actual "fun" glyphs, here's for hoping.

We do have a couple of great ones though, the CD Reduc on SW, the wolves heal.. and Healing storm, BUT, I think healing storm should be gradual, and not have us wait for 5 stacks as that is not always the option.

[reyareya]

You don't have a source for that? That would be pretty big news and I feel like if a blue posted it someone would have picked up on it by now. Did you hear it officially or second hand, and where?

iirc it was some guy who plays enhancement that mentioned it on his website

---------- Post added 2012-04-09 at 11:36 AM ----------

First quick look :

1) Healing Tide Tome scales with haste which makes it tick faster. This makes sense since Ancestral Guidance and Conductivity both scale with haste too.
2) Chain Lightning hits for a ton of damage, I had triple crit hit for a total of 120-130k damage Oo
3) Lava Burst does almost the same damage as it does on live but Lightning Bolt hits way harder and is very close to LvB.

LB is likely hitting harder than LvB because of "Elemental Fury", where LvB only gets bonus 50% crit damage but LB and CL gets like 70% additional.

---------- Post added 2012-04-09 at 11:42 AM ----------

Useless? I'm not too sure if you ever pvp'd or did any progress raiding. In pvp you are subject to dispels all the time, which messes up the shared shock cooldown. In pve there are fights where you need to burst down an add quickly, now you have to delay/waste your earth shock because you have to apply fs first. That glyph was golden.

agreed, maybe cause they removed Lava Flows talent which gives you a huge haste buff whenever FS gets dispel though. [talking bout ele only]

[Protoman]

I'm not very happy about our glyphs atm, I think they need A LOT of work, and we are yet to see actual "fun" glyphs, here's for hoping.

We do have a couple of great ones though, the CD Reduc on SW, the wolves heal.. and Healing storm, BUT, I think healing storm should be gradual, and not have us wait for 5 stacks as that is not always the option.

I think healing storm is gradual, you get 20% bonus healing per stack, up to 100%. Fun glyphs I'm sure we'll get some soon enough, might be taking time if they are adding ones with new animations or new forms or something since you gotta design those.

Enhance has alot of good, useful glyphs for PVP. My only main complaint with glyphs is the "Imp GW" one which is mandatory for PVP, as well as our main form of gap closer/escape for all 3 specs......I don't understand why we should have to glyph for something to make us mobile in PVP......it would be like a mage having to glyph for blink, or a warrior for charge. I would gladly give up other things related to mobility, like remove "sprint on FB" from UF talent completely, or the glyph for Spirit Walk so we will be stuck with 2 min cd.....long as we get our GW snare immunity effect baseline.

iirc it was some guy who plays enhancement that mentioned it on his website

Well then I can't really take his word for it lol, but I do hope to hear from GC about the AP buff for Enh instead of SP. I would be happy if it's just a personal 10% AP buff for Enhance with the SP buff up, even if we can't share it with the raid. We lost 2 chunks of AP with both UR and Str of Earth removed.

[reyareya]

Well then I can't really take his word for it lol, but I do hope to hear from GC about the AP buff for Enh instead of SP. I would be happy if it's just a personal 10% AP buff for Enhance with the SP buff up, even if we can't share it with the raid. We lost 2 chunks of AP with both UR and Str of Earth removed.

not sure if appropriate or not but i think this is probably what should answer your questions regarding enhancements?

Shaman (Forums)
Enhancement Damage
It is worth pointing out that one of our goals is for nobody's damage to drop when you convert your Cataclysm level 85 character to a Mists level 85 character. The sources of your damage may change as rotations change somewhat, but once you're comfortable with those new rotations, your damage should be similar.

Also remember that number tuning is one of the last things we do. There is no point in spending hours testing numbers if we decide that a particular ability or mechanic was a boneheaded idea and needs to be redesigned. We try to keep the numbers sane enough that players still feel like they can give feedback though. (Blue Tracker / Official Forums)

[deadri]

Well then I can't really take his word for it lol, but I do hope to hear from GC about the AP buff for Enh instead of SP. I would be happy if it's just a personal 10% AP buff for Enhance with the SP buff up, even if we can't share it with the raid. We lost 2 chunks of AP with both UR and Str of Earth removed.

TBH I think it doesn't really matter if it is only personal buff since Blizz will try to balance dps with or without it. Does it matter if you make 20k dps with your personal buff if you do 20k without it? And if other classes do competitive dps without your buff they will do more dps when they get it so you'll probably be in a worse spot compared to them in a raid. (If we don't count buff that they bring that affect you)

[Tharkash]

Healing: I've been healing the one open 5 man on my shaman on beta (I'm heals OS on live) and I have to say, Conductivity has so much synergy with the TC Glyph, being able to nuke/regen and still get a heal off it, albeit a small one, is amazing. I was finding myself healing the whole place with ES on the tank, rolling a RT and keeping Healing Rain down while regening/healing with LB. This works really well when people can be stacked, or atleast in the seemingly huge Healing Rain. I want to try the RT glyph but I don't want my shaman to feel any more like my druid, personally.

I think the only thing we're missing is a tank CD. Maybe bring back Stoneskin as a targeted spell version of Stone Bulwark totem, absorbs a big chunk of damage and then smaller chunks for a duration.

[Golden Carp]

How about elemental dps good or bad?

[Protoman]

TBH I think it doesn't really matter if it is only personal buff since Blizz will try to balance dps with or without it. Does it matter if you make 20k dps with your personal buff if you do 20k without it? And if other classes do competitive dps without your buff they will do more dps when they get it so you'll probably be in a worse spot compared to them in a raid. (If we don't count buff that they bring that affect you)

I know they will balance all dps to be similar level. But so far we only bring 2 buffs, 10% SP and Mastery, and Enhance only benefits from 1/2 of them. With such a limited amount of buffs, I think we should be able to benefit from both of them. Doesn't make much sense to give a buff that you yourself can't gain anything from. It's like giving a rogue spell haste, or a warrior the curse of elements debuff.

[Jsf]

As anyone tested Healing Tide Totem in a group ? It doesn't seem to heal anyone but me...

How far away were the other targets? I seemed to notice that HST at least didn't have anywhere close to 30 yards range, more like 15 yards around the totem.

[Protoman]

Few things posted on the beta forums:

"Healing Stream Totem - Affected by mastery, except on the first tick. Does not work with haste or crit.

Healing Tide Totem - Affected by crit but does not work with haste or mastery."


And also the EoE proc rate has been increased for Enhance, it procs about 4times as often......Ele/Resto have like a 7% proc, and Enh is like 28-30%. Still doesn't proc from FT or LS, prob too strong if it proc'd from FT but I think LS would be cool. And also the icd from FT, the .7s one, has been removed.

EoE for AOE/CL is as follows "CL with 30% proc chance should activate about 65.7% of the time on 3 targets. My testing was slightly higher but obviously not a big enough sample size." So it procs pretty often with cleave/aoe.


EB is also confirmed to work with MW5.


Edit:

Also, for some reason LvB has not been made exclusive to Elemental, lot of Enhance bitching about that cause it does more damage and they end up using it. The new dot duration on flame shock makes ULE>FLS a little clunky. And EB blast might work with ULE so that could replace FLS if you plan to use it.

---------- Post added 2012-04-09 at 02:03 PM ----------

Hmm... well I figured out a way to make Flame shock work w/ ule. Damn I wish I could post on the beta forums!!

ULE, wait till 6 sec, FLS......ULE, FLS right away....ULE wait 6 sec, FLS.

Basically for one ule you wait to use FLS till ULE almost falls off (lasts 8 sec), and the 2nd one you refresh FLS right away.

If your using EB instead, AND you want to use ULE w/ it....you would have to use ULE with every EB and just refresh FLS independent of it, so like 3 ES and 1 FLS in your shock rotation.

[manu9]

Few things posted on the beta forums:

"Healing Stream Totem - Affected by mastery, except on the first tick. Does not work with haste or crit.

Healing Tide Totem - Affected by crit but does not work with haste or mastery."


And also the EoE proc rate has been increased for Enhance, it procs about 4times as often......Ele/Resto have like a 7% proc, and Enh is like 28-30%. Still doesn't proc from FT or LS, prob too strong if it proc'd from FT but I think LS would be cool. And also the icd from FT, the .7s one, has been removed.

EoE for AOE/CL is as follows "CL with 30% proc chance should activate about 65.7% of the time on 3 targets. My testing was slightly higher but obviously not a big enough sample size." So it procs pretty often with cleave/aoe.


EB is also confirmed to work with MW5.


Edit:

Also, for some reason LvB has not been made exclusive to Elemental, lot of Enhance bitching about that cause it does more damage and they end up using it. The new dot duration on flame shock makes ULE>FLS a little clunky. And EB blast might work with ULE so that could replace FLS if you plan to use it.

---------- Post added 2012-04-09 at 02:03 PM ----------

Hmm... well I figured out a way to make Flame shock work w/ ule. Damn I wish I could post on the beta forums!!

ULE, wait till 6 sec, FLS......ULE, FLS right away....ULE wait 6 sec, FLS.

Basically for one ule you wait to use FLS till ULE almost falls off (lasts 8 sec), and the 2nd one you refresh FLS right away.

If your using EB instead, AND you want to use ULE w/ it....you would have to use ULE with every EB and just refresh FLS independent of it, so like 3 ES and 1 FLS in your shock rotation.

Could you provide a link to the thread that stated the EoE chance and the EB with UE?

[Protoman]

Could you provide a link to the thread that stated the EoE chance and the EB with UE?

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4516173?page=9

EoE is about 30% for single target spell, and with CL about 65.7% chance to proc on atleast one of the CL targets.

For EB, while you would stack MW5, if you checked your talents the cast time of EB would also decrease, and at 5 stacks it was instant. They can't know for sure if EB works for ULE, but everyone there is assuming if it counts as a nature spell for MW5, then the "fire spell" buff for ULE will also work, since usually for multi school spells it does the damage of whichever school will put out the most damage factoring in any other buffs. Like if you get 110 damage as a Fire spell vs 90 as Nature or Frost, it will use the 110 value.

[Recom]

How far away were the other targets? I seemed to notice that HST at least didn't have anywhere close to 30 yards range, more like 15 yards around the totem.

Pretty far, something like 30 yards I believe. It sucks if it has a 15 yards range...

EoE seems to be 6%, not 7%.

[Thalais]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvPf...h_e_se&list=SL
Around 4:22 of this clip you see the spell book and he is all up and going for the new 87 spell, but I saw something there that I didn't remember seeing before?
What is our level 90 spell?
It clearly shows another spell after Acendent.

[Illitti]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxvPf...h_e_se&list=SL
Around 4:22 of this clip you see the spell book and he is all up and going for the new 87 spell, but I saw something there that I didn't remember seeing before?
What is our level 90 spell?
It clearly shows another spell after Acendent.

That's the ability that grants flying rights to Pandaria, no idea why it's in active part of the spellbook.

[Recom]

Some passives still show in the active panel but my guess is that it's there on purpose so people would see it (it would easily be missed in the passive tab).

[Endus]

http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...4516173?page=9

EoE is about 30% for single target spell, and with CL about 65.7% chance to proc on atleast one of the CL targets.

Before we start throwing numbers around too much, he did what appears to be a 100-CL test. That's way insufficient for anything conclusive. We need at least a couple thousand casts, and preferably closer to 10k, before we can start to state proc chances with any real accuracy.

That said, about 4x what Elemental/Resto get is probably close to right, and is the kind of accuracy that's acceptable given that number of spellcasts. We just can't boil it down to "26%" or something yet.

I know you didn't make the claim, but I'm still making sure everyone keeps statistical needs in mind when considering this stuff.

[Thalais]

I'm not a huge fan of specs determine the % of casts.
IMO, after all tests are done, EoE should proc equal % for all specs.
By preventing spells from being reduced, it basically is going towards this cookie cutter talents that blizzard is trying to get away from.

EoE appears to be the best choice for Enhancement, but Elemental and Restoration Shamans have all 3 at their liking.
Look at Elemental Shamans, they take a glyph to cast LB on the run and take a 5% reduce cast speed, then they take the talent to basically counter it and allows them to cast instant cast from something like maybe an EQ on the run for that AoE spell needed while you move out of the fire?

EoE sadly is the only thing for Enhancement in that tier. If it has lower procs, that is crazy since we will be cookie cutter into a talent that is vastly weaker than other specs and that is our DPS tier which will be upsetting.

I would love haste to be useful like it is for rogues, dks, ect. so other talents in this tier would be attractive for us. I would love to have 30% haste suddenly boost my damage overall, but as it is, it doesn't.

[JJaguar]

I think elemental mastery should provide 30% mastery, and ancestral swiftness should give 5% passive mastery! Then maybe enhancement would pick something other than EoE