DK MoP Beta Class Changes

[Hartst]

Imagine the horror of being a Frost DK having to ditch Frost Strike in order to shield the tanks with DC. Only way to be viable only for PvP would have to make the buff cancel/replace the paladin/priest shield. If it doesn't than every pro guild would want at least 1 DK regardless of spec keeping DC up on the tank. Sure as Blood you could do it at the risk of losing threat (no RS) but it's just not fun and a huge letdown being a shield vendor. That was not the future I imagined for the DK class...

Plenty of classes have very strong off healing, you don't often see shadowpriests/enhance/elemental/retributionpalas healing the tanks. It's usually more effective to let the healers healer and the dpsers dps.

[Gunslinger]

Well you don't see Ret Pallies wasting they Holy Power for a WoG on a tank. (not frequently anyway)


@Mione: I love you. How do you think they'll deal with the masteries of Frost and Unholy in terms of Remorseless Winter and Desecrated Ground? Do you figure they'll just keep them that way or maybe turn them both into Shadowfrost damage?

Problem is WoG is a build-up ability which can also help yourself AND as a bonus increases the damage you do in Ret. Even if you do use it you still get something in exchange for your "trouble". Fact is a shield can be better than a heal since you don't need to time it AND you can give it to yourself. A shield will stay until the damage taken is equal or above it.

[Recom]

About the damage of abilities, they said they were tinkering with it so no worries.

Many boss are DPS races now, I don't see DKs spamming DC on tanks (tank damage is a joke in raid now).

[Gunslinger]

Plenty of classes have very strong off healing, you don't often see shadowpriests/enhance/elemental/retributionpalas healing the tanks. It's usually more effective to let the healers healer and the dpsers dps.

Healing =/= Shielding. More so they have different abilities. Even more than that they use mana as a resource where as DKs build their resources during battle. There are trade offs for healing team-mates if you are a Ret paladin, shadowpriests offer PASSIVE healing WHILE doing damage.

[Tomana]

Now bad DK's won't be punished for deathgripping heroic mobs off the tank, because they were out of range >.<

Bad DKs probably won't get that glyph.

[Vereesà]

I'll agree, heals ≠ absorbs, but even then they aren't gonna design fights around having a DK DPS (or more) in the raid. Sure there might be cases where you don't actually need to do damage (think Mimiron's waiting phases or something like that) and using DC on the tank isn't costing you a lot of damage.

[Hartst]

Healing =/= Shielding. More so they have different abilities. Even more than that they use mana as a resource where as DKs build their resources during battle. There are trade offs for healing team-mates if you are a Ret paladin, shadowpriests offer PASSIVE healing WHILE doing damage.

It's not exactly the same thing but has the exact same effect, relieving healers. The only time you would actually use off healing is when healers are OOM. A shadowpriest flash heal crits for like 50k, same with enh/ele shamans. Compared to the shield effect which is pretty weak, 50% of attack power which on live would be ~15k. I don't think anyone is going to use or even be expected to be using this on tanks. That being said it would be really helpful in pvp.
I wonder if the minor glyph that refunds RP when DC is used to heal will work with the shield effect, and if Runic Empowerment can proc from it.

[Gunslinger]

It's not exactly the same thing but has the exact same effect, relieving healers. The only time you would actually use off healing is when healers are OOM. A shadowpriest flash heal crits for like 50k, same with enh/ele shamans. Compared to the shield effect which is pretty weak, 50% of attack power which on live would be ~15k. I don't think anyone is going to use or even be expected to be using this on tanks. That being said it would be really helpful in pvp.
I wonder if the minor glyph that refunds RP when DC is used to heal will work with the shield effect, and if Runic Empowerment can proc from it.

Look at it this way. 15k shield with instant cast about once every 3-5 seconds or so depending on haste etc. at lvl 85. That's around the same shield provided from DS on blood tanks whey they barely take dmg or don't take dmg at all. Reducing 15k dmg about 2-3 hits out of /4 when fighting a boss on progression helps a LOT. Sure it helps PvPers but you've wasted your energy, procs and traded a (large) part of your damage. I'd love to be a shadow priest and offer passive healing or at least get 4% more dmg for 10 seconds each DC I'd use on a tank but that's not the case. 50k heal sure that's fine but it's still castable, it's not instant and it's a crit far from the average. The shield is has pretty much close to a priest's PW:S and it's even more effective than it since the PW:S leaves a debuff which prohibits the target from being shielded for the next 15 seconds. In 15 seconds you could cast 4-5 DCs on a tank (at least depending on spec/rp generation) which would be around 60k-75k (give or take a couple of Ks) damage reduction compared to a priest's PW:S that in the same duration would be 13-18k.

[Karazee]

Icy Touch Icy touch dispells magic effects, will this roll over into HB aswell or do frost get screwed here?

Because an AoE spammable purge isn't OP in the slightest...

[drivertz]

Hello beta testers!

I have a few questions:

Where is Hungering Cold and Desecration? And how is the frost damage? Im seeing just Unholy upgrades!

[Mionelol]

Mione are you gonna stream?

there isn't much to do yet, no quests etc, so idk maybe

[DemoBytom]

there isn't much to do yet, no quests etc, so idk maybe

solo new instances :P

... are they available yet? XD

[bals]

Because an AoE spammable purge isn't OP in the slightest...

mass dispel?

[Magdalena]

mass dispel?

True, but MD doesn't come with strong AoE damage and the potential (if talented) to apply a 50% root. Even if they were to include HB in with this glyph, it'd be nerfed quickly.

[drivertz]

The solution for this is just dispel the 'focus' target of Howling Blast, not all from the aoe.

[Mionelol]

how about soloing capabilities of blood DKs? Is it ok, is it better or worse? You already said that our DPS goes down, so it doesn't look good, but how is selfhealing?

Healing seems totally unaffected, if not better (Conversion + AMS soaking = :O? Death Siphon? Runic Corruption?). DPS is abysmally low to the point it's broken though, I'm critting death strike for like 15k max.

What is the resource cost for Death Siphon and Soul Reaper?
Is Death's Advance passive 100% up time?
How much does Necrotic Strike absorb with your AP?

1 Death Rune for both abilities. It generates 10 RP.
Death's Advance is passive all the time.
Necrotic Strike was unchanged (14k something with 20k ap)

How do you think they'll deal with the masteries of Frost and Unholy in terms of Remorseless Winter and Desecrated Ground? Do you figure they'll just keep them that way or maybe turn them both into Shadowfrost damage?

I have no idea. Death Siphon has gone the way of Shadowfrost damage already, I'm nearly sure Soul Reaper will follow (it just doesn't make sense otherwise). But those two abilities... not sure.

Where is Hungering Cold and Desecration? And how is the frost damage? Im seeing just Unholy upgrades!

Hungering Cold and Desecration are both gone. You can see their evolved versions in the form of the level 90 talents though.
Idk about frost damage yet, didn't fly to acherus to respec :P

[Leviatharan]

The solution for this is just dispel the 'focus' target of Howling Blast, not all from the aoe.

Or just not have it affect Howling Blast at all. Give Frost a reason to push *any other button* in PvP.

---------- Post added 2012-03-22 at 09:25 AM ----------

What glyphs are making a return in MoP, since we've only covered new ones? And any word on the new Runeforges?

[Mionelol]

Control Undead (note that probably nothing is final):

Even if you are Blood or Frost, you can control the pet you're enslaving with a real pet bar as if it was a ghoul, basically it works like a warlock enslave demon. There are no diminishing returns and you can control the same pet indefinitely if you want to do so.

The controlled pet doesn't go through loading screens (nope, no controlling the oneshot mobs in ahn'kahet DD).

If you are Unholy, it replaces your ghoul, which sucks at first glance, but......

.....Shadow Infusion and Dark Transformation work with the new pet. So this isn't too much of a problem in the end

I obviously don't know the DPS values etc but the controlled pet doesn't seem to deal bad damage at all. (depending on what you choose to control ofc)

The controlled pet has all the abilities the mob has. I've controlled some mobs in tol barad which had a curse reducing magical damage done by 10%, or increasing physical damage taken by 10%, etc, and all these abilities work. I don't see how this could be exploited though, considering pets can't get through log-in screens. I'm pretty sure someone will find a long-duration buff or something though.

If you control a low-level undead, it won't scale up to level 85 and will remain low-level.

[drivertz]

Damn... we dont have a viable CC now. Huge nerf on RBG's taking out our hungering cold

[Vereesà]

.....Shadow Infusion and Dark Transformation work with the new pet. So this isn't too much of a problem in the end (depending on what you choose to control ofc)

I assume SI and DT both increase damage, but what does a Dark Transformed, controlled undead look like? Or does it simply get the 60% damage buff and nothing else?