DK MoP Beta Class Changes

[Innoruuk]

The limiting of flexibility was what I was most concerned about when asking/suggesting the idea that it consume all available charges (up to 10 of course) and activating 2 runes at once. I was really thinking of it almost completely in terms of DS for Blood DKs for an additional/on demand DS. Youre right in that it loses something when considering the use of single rune abilities which cannot be dismissed.

When I posted I was aware that both runes coming up at the same time could lead to some issues and was unsure how exactly it would function. Im not familiar enough with rune regeneration mechanics to even consider or suggest how the regenerating 2 runes simultaneously could or should function.

Glad to see it was at least legitimate enough for some consideration and thanks again for all the modeling work youve put in.

[Schizoide]

They should just it make unmacroable. (I invented a word, yay, go me) There's actually a various number of ways to achieve this.

Yep. The most obvious being putting it on a 0.1s GCD. Et voila, it can't be macroed but won't interrupt gameplay.

[Innoruuk]

If it can simply be made "unmacroable" (getting on the new word bandwagon early!) that would be the easiest, most 'elegant' solution. I was unaware that this was an option. I thought it was either 'if its off the GCD it can be macro'd otherwise it has to have a GCD.' Its neat that theres a smooth, functional middle ground. I dont know why they didnt just do that in the first place. To force extra, unwarranted GCDs on us because "its not too much of a hardship" given our new 1sec GCD is nonsense.

[Samsarathedk]

Another solution for blood (and the dreadful downtime) would be to borrow something for icc wrath/early cata frost dks. Give us a 100% chance to convert blood runes into death runes when they go on cd (original blood of the north) that way we still be using heart strike (both for damage and threat) but will also gain an additional death strike per rotation set (something we basically came to depend on in cata through spamming the hell out of rune strike hoping re would proc).

[Mionelol]

That wouldn't help at all with downtime (replacing 2 x 1-rune abilities by 1 x 2-rune ability), and we've seen through early Cata frost that blood of the north didn't really work in practice (as expected through basic logic@deathrunes not recharging at the same time).

I don't think anything's needed (in terms of downtime ofc!) other than a Scent of Blood buff OR RP change on rune strike OR 30% rune regen. Or a Crimson Scourge's comeback, albeit I've personally never been a fan of this proc (and I'm not a fan of procs fixing downtime either, what happens when you're unlucky? procs are fun when they are bonuses, not mandatory to have a somewhat fun playstyle. a proc shouldn't feel like a random button you press when you have nothing better to do)

[Izonami]

I don't think any class should be significantly resource starved in mid to end level tiers, assuming they play in a way that manages given resources. It's not fun to wait, at all. I love my DK (I really do) but if they could make it so I never had to sit on my hands for 2-3s again, I would cry a little.

[Asheriah]

Well, in my eyes, old BT could fix a lot of things...

That, and some kind of crimson scourge like proc. (Maybe giving a choice between a free HS and a free BB)

It would solve downtime, aoe, and survival issues.

[Mortallus]

How are DK's lookin Dmg wise in MOP?

[Izonami]

From what I've read (but not seen personally) we're nowhere near the top or bottom, very much in the middle. We're on the lowish side as far as melee goes, apparently.

[Samsarathedk]

That wouldn't help at all with downtime (replacing 2 x 1-rune abilities by 1 x 2-rune ability), and we've seen through early Cata frost that blood of the north didn't really work in practice (as expected through basic logic@deathrunes not recharging at the same time).

I don't think anything's needed other than a Scent of Blood buff OR RP change on rune strike OR 30% rune regen. Or a Crimson Scourge's comeback, albeit I've personally never been a fan of this proc (and I'm not a fan of procs fixing downtime either, what happens when you're unlucky? procs are fun when they are bonuses, not mandatory to have a somewhat fun playstyle. a proc shouldn't feel like a random button you press when you have nothing better to do)

Personally, I'm all for the rune regen now that blood tap is on a gcd, and re being rather annoying, we would best benefit by having runes available at a steady pace instead of being forced to 'game' them. Regardless, I'm just trying to come up with something that will finally catch the devs attention and make them say "Hey sorry about screwing up your rotation and in turn your mitigation and here's the fix for it!"

[Rothulean1]

Unholy's ghoul is double dipping into Unholy Aura is it not? When that gets fixed, It should put Unholy right in line with 2h frost. DW Frost is the one lagging behind.

[Kink]

Unholy's ghoul is double dipping into Unholy Aura is it not? When that gets fixed, It should put Unholy right in line with 2h frost. DW Frost is the one lagging behind.

I think even without that unholys doing more then 2H frost, so I see unholy coming out top with a 1-2k dps difference over 2H frost. I would like to see them improve DW though.

[Ganaza]

How are DK's lookin Dmg wise in MOP?

In comparison with other classes? The shitter geared the better.

DK's gear scaling is quite poor (just take a look at the stat weights!) compared to other classes, and this needs be addressed

[SSHA778]

That wouldn't help at all with downtime (replacing 2 x 1-rune abilities by 1 x 2-rune ability), and we've seen through early Cata frost that blood of the north didn't really work in practice (as expected through basic logic@deathrunes not recharging at the same time).

Mostly agree here. I've always hated CS. However, I'm pretty sure we're the only tanking spec that doesn't have a proc of some sort, so we are kind of due for one. I'd rather it proc an HS than a Blood Boil, because at least one of those isn't a complete waste of a GCD.

Blood is using all of the resources it generates. Changing what resources are generated doesn't change that. The problem is that you simply don't generate enough resources to fill GCDs.

I can see the argument that having so much downtime allows you to time DS better in theory, but, really, I just don't buy it. 35% is overkill. I can time DS perfectly fine with the amount of downtime we have on Live currently (and I'm basically GCD-capped). I don't need Blizzard force-feeding me more time. If anything, having so much downtime is going to make timing downright annoying, because you're forced to time your attacks in order to reduce that downtime, whether you want to or not. Otherwise, you're just going to sit there. And sitting there is really annoying when the boss is still pounding away at you. Not to mention, you won't gear for haste, so your downtime is literally going to remain unchanged for the entirety of the expansion.

Timing DS doesn't really involve downtime. It involves watching what's going on instead of spamming buttons. When you watch what's going on, you're more aware of when damage is going to happen. When you're more aware of when damage is going to happen, if you aren't an idiot, you'll tailor your rotation (usage, speed, etc.) to have that DS when you want it. Timing is all about the player--not the rotation.

However, it appears that several of the tanks are also facing extreme downtime issues (warriors, monks). Perhaps that's their intent. I strongly disagree, but that's just my opinion.

[Justin Sane]

I'd rather it proc an HS than a Blood Boil, because at least one of those isn't a complete waste of a GCD.

Unless the change that makes Blood Boil refresh diseases actually comes to be.

[Schizoide]

Blood Boil hits much harder now. Not as hard as heart strike on <4 targets, but it's worth using on its own to AE. And of course it will refresh disease durations too.

The old blood tap wouldn't be sufficient to fill blood's free GCDs. It really needs something like crimson scourge.

[Rothulean1]

I think even without that unholys doing more then 2H frost, so I see unholy coming out top with a 1-2k dps difference over 2H frost. I would like to see them improve DW though.

For sure. DW Frost is lagging way behind.

[Qrmas]

Btw, has there someone tested, how Dancing Steel + Fallen Crusader performs compaired to Razorice + Fallen Crusader, or it's that information about Dancing Steel proc rate is not available yet, because no one has not able to get this enchant...

[Schizoide]

The only spec that could use dancing steel is DW frost, and it gets most of its damage from frost strike. There's no way dancing steel could possibly compete with a 10% frost damage debuff, even at 100% uptime. I suppose it could be worthwhile in AE, but if you optimize your play to that level cinderglacier is better anyway.

[Beefkow]

I got yet another question (im not in the beta yet, im on a trip away from home and i am dead right curious).

Is it worth getting rolling blood with the dmg buff?