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  1. #1
    I am Murloc! anaxie's Avatar
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    Repentance is now sheep

    Yes a sheep + 50% snare + Sprint Cooldown talent = ????

  2. #2
    Your point being?

  3. #3
    Can haz talent calcs, please?

  4. #4
    Herald of the Titans zcks's Avatar
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    While these tools will be good for locking down targets in some situations they will still have problems.

    1: Repentance can easily be dispelled

    2: The snare while decent can also be easily dispelled since it's magic.

    3: The run speed boost is also decent but you can easily be locked down, CC spammed etc... while running to your target



    So while in some cases & team setups these new tools are great, in many others they are still sub par compared to an instant gap closer & physical snare.
    The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
    1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
    2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
    3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

  5. #5
    Mechagnome
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    Madness!!!!!!!

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by zcks View Post
    While these tools will be good for locking down targets in some situations they will still have problems.

    1: Repentance can easily be dispelled

    2: The snare while decent can also be easily dispelled since it's magic.

    3: The run speed boost is also decent but you can easily be locked down, CC spammed etc... while running to your target




    So while in some cases & team setups these new tools are great, in many others they are still sub par compared to an instant gap closer & physical snare.
    Everything you said can be applied to every class...

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by locoibland View Post
    Everything you said can be applied to every class...
    Unfortunately, 1 doesn't apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids, 2 doesn't apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids and 3 also does not apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids. I think I'm sensing a pattern here! O_O

  8. #8
    Stood in the Fire Xanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Unfortunately, 1 doesn't apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids, 2 doesn't apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids and 3 also does not apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids. I think I'm sensing a pattern here! O_O
    Enhancement shamans feel your pain.
    "Man knows- he knows that nothing will begin unless he speaks. And nothing will change, unless he knows."


  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Unfortunately, 1 doesn't apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids, 2 doesn't apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids and 3 also does not apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids. I think I'm sensing a pattern here! O_O
    Oh sure, this must mean that Warriors are OP!

    Yes it's quite good. Don't forget that dispels will be heavily nerfed in MoP (or rather 5.0). Or has that changed in the meantime?

  10. #10
    The Patient sasofrass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by reckoner04 View Post
    Oh sure, this must mean that Warriors are OP!

    Yes it's quite good. Don't forget that dispels will be heavily nerfed in MoP (or rather 5.0). Or has that changed in the meantime?
    As they stand now, dispels will get rid of all of the type of debuff on only an 8 second cooldown. Not "heavily nerfed" per say.

  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by reckoner04 View Post
    Oh sure, this must mean that Warriors are OP!
    They've been OP for a lot of seasons. How about Retribution Paladins or Enhancement Shamans? Not so much, not so much... ps Warriors are still really good this season so don't kid yourself. Their damage is ridiculous. Every melee hates Frost Mages so get over it.

    Quote Originally Posted by reckoner04 View Post
    Yes it's quite good. Don't forget that dispels will be heavily nerfed in MoP (or rather 5.0). Or has that changed in the meantime?
    This mainly benefits Rogues, Warlocks and Mages. Rogues because they apply their utility poison literally effortlessly, Warlocks because they put DOTs on everything and with the way it's set up you literally won't be able to catch up ever and get free fear on DPS and Mages because of free polymorphs on DPS. Warlock DOTs will have to be nerfed to maintain balance.

    Then you got the fact that Retribution Paladins aren't really getting anything to compensate unless Pursuit of Justice works beyond 3 Holy Power. As it stands right now, Repentance may not be bad for Holy, but it's not so good for Retribution compared to the other two choices. Burden of Guilt or Fist of Justice are the only two good choices there for PVP.
    Last edited by Reith; 2012-03-22 at 02:51 PM.

  12. #12
    Herald of the Titans zcks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sasofrass View Post
    As they stand now, dispels will get rid of all of the type of debuff on only an 8 second cooldown. Not "heavily nerfed" per say.

    Defensive dispels were heavily nerfed due to the CD the received true, however offensive dispels & spell steal were in fact buffed.

    This is because they now remove every single buff with a single use, meaning they no longer have to be spammed.

    So even if they do receive a CD (they haven't yet) it would need to be several minutes long in order to not be a buff for the classes that have them.


    As I have said in other threads blizzard knows & has known for quite some time the things they need to do to balance PVP & PVE respectively but they refuse to do them for various reasons ranging from not knowing how to do so without making classes too similar to simply not wanting to put the effort needed in because they no longer have the number of people working on WOW that it would require.
    The way balancing for WOW PVP works is allot like American politics.
    1: Be lazy & ignore problems till the yelling is so loud your cant concentrate.
    2: Refuse to do the things you have Said need to be done, then make up reasons why they cannot be done.
    3: Lay the blame for problems on someone else even when it's your fault because you did all of the above.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    This mainly benefits Rogues, Warlocks and Mages. Rogues because they apply their utility poison literally effortlessly, Warlocks because they put DOTs on everything and with the way it's set up you literally won't be able to catch up ever and get free fear on DPS and Mages because of free polymorphs on DPS. Warlock DOTs will have to be nerfed to maintain balance.

    Then you got the fact that Retribution Paladins aren't really getting anything to compensate unless Pursuit of Justice works beyond 3 Holy Power. As it stands right now, Repentance may not be bad for Holy, but it's not so good for Retribution compared to the other two choices. Burden of Guilt or Fist of Justice are the only two good choices there for PVP.
    This. And remember that our cleanse has 8 sec cooldown, so we are almost like a warrior without a charge in MoP.

  14. #14
    Best Kitten Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    Unfortunately, 1 doesn't apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids, 2 doesn't apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids and 3 also does not apply to Rogues, Warriors or Feral Druids. I think I'm sensing a pattern here! O_O
    Also, Chains of Ice (for god knows what reason) is also a physical snare, so Death Knights can be added to #2.

    I do really appreciate the Repentance change though. While it is dispellable, a spamable CC is not a utility that all melee classes have. While we have some situational utility that other classes lack, we lack (and always have) a solid toolkit. The new Repentance is finally something we can say "we have that".

    The problem, of course, is the tradeoff cost involved with picking up Repentance.

    Quote Originally Posted by zcks View Post
    Defensive dispels were heavily nerfed due to the CD the received true, however offensive dispels & spell steal were in fact buffed.

    This is because they now remove every single buff with a single use, meaning they no longer have to be spammed.

    So even if they do receive a CD (they haven't yet) it would need to be several minutes long in order to not be a buff for the classes that have them.
    Several of the new glyphs that popped up deal with offensive dispels (Purge's glyph makes it dispel an additional buff), so Blizzard might have changed their mind on the "full offensive dispel" idea.
    Last edited by Simca; 2012-03-23 at 11:13 AM.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Simca View Post
    Several of the new glyphs that popped up deal with offensive dispels (Purge's glyph makes it dispel an additional buff), so Blizzard might have changed their mind on the "full offensive dispel" idea.
    I still don't see the reasoning behind nerfing defensive dispels, unless I look only at battlegrounds. Then it makes more sense. It makes absolutely no sense for arena, though, and the unintended side-effect is that putting a cooldown on Cleanse nerfs Retribution's mobility heavily.

    EDIT: I'm pretty sure that Burden of Guilt is actually a physical effect. See here: http://www.wowdb.com/spells/110300-burden-of-guilt If this is the case, it will be very useful.
    Last edited by Reith; 2012-03-23 at 03:27 PM.

  16. #16
    The glyph of cleanse needs to be changed ASAP. It either needs to be ALL, or something else has to be done. If they want to leave it as one, let it remove the cooldown on cleanse but no longer remove magic (possibly disease/poison as well) to stop holy taking it. The only reason i think its 'terrible' atm is to stop it being too OP for holy. The problems of sharing mobility with holy is starting to show already...

  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by Xanda View Post
    Enhancement shamans feel your pain.
    Sure. They can be slowed a lot while in ghost wolf.

  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Palatinus View Post
    The glyph of cleanse needs to be changed ASAP. It either needs to be ALL, or something else has to be done. If they want to leave it as one, let it remove the cooldown on cleanse but no longer remove magic (possibly disease/poison as well) to stop holy taking it. The only reason i think its 'terrible' atm is to stop it being too OP for holy. The problems of sharing mobility with holy is starting to show already...
    That's what I was afraid of, as well. We need to get on the beta and test the stuff out thoroughly to see how good it really is in practice. If it's really not good enough, then we need to suggest changes for Retribution that would not buff Holy.

  19. #19
    Best Kitten Simca's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reith View Post
    I still don't see the reasoning behind nerfing defensive dispels, unless I look only at battlegrounds. Then it makes more sense. It makes absolutely no sense for arena, though, and the unintended side-effect is that putting a cooldown on Cleanse nerfs Retribution's mobility heavily.

    EDIT: I'm pretty sure that Burden of Guilt is actually a physical effect. See here: http://www.wowdb.com/spells/110300-burden-of-guilt If this is the case, it will be very useful.
    Lol.

    I guess Repentance being Sheep won't really matter after all (for PvP) since everyone is going to be picking this.
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  20. #20
    Stood in the Fire Xanda's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by vynka View Post
    Sure. They can be slowed a lot while in ghost wolf.
    Sigh

    Reread the post i quoted.

    And just FYI http://www.wowdb.com/spells/2645-ghost-wolf

    Shaman will be easily snared in ghost wolf.
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