1. #3321
    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    Will BM with lynx rush and DB be needed to be timed with BW for reduced cost or are people finding it better to just use them on CD. I found myself on beta as BM more focus needs to be given to actual core rotation/ priority than worrying too much about when to time lynx rush etc... I see alot of people using glaives over barrage and PS (PvE). Do you guys think barrage is going to have much use at all? I can see obviously PS being useful in PvP but even as BM or Surv with SrS spread the options if using multishot as Surv or multishot with beast cleave under BW will always be preferred to barrage. I'm just wondering if anyone is opting to use this talent. If not then my initial suspicions about out level 90 talents being just another shot to be keybound and underwhelming in terms of dynamic choices worried me with the expansion so close.
    Dire Beast and Lynx Rush both have no cost, so that shouldn't be a worry. Use DB on CD, and LR on CD. LR has a 30 second longer CD than BW does, so you just want to use it when its avail. Half the time it will match up with BW for extra damage. Barrage seems to be the least picked. Powershot seems liked in PvP, and Glaive Toss for all PvE specs.
    Ren of <Ruined>, US Proudmoore

  2. #3322
    Yes Barrage could be good for MM but seeing that my primary spec is BM and secondary SV, coupled with the fact that I hate channeled abilities, I will be sticking with Glaive Toss.

    I will say that my tests on femaledwarf are done with the full set of Malevolent Gladiator gear with no enchants and only the gems available to my premade jewelcrafting toon. In other words, the blue quality Cata gems. I'm doing that because that's all that is available to my Hunter in the Beta and it lets me test on the dummies to see how close I get to what the sim says. On the level 90 dummy I can get about 90% of the sim figures. On the boss dummy, mainly because it's impossible to get both hit and expertise capped in the PvP gear without seriously gimping yourself in other areas, I can only get about 75-80%. I also test without any raid buffs or debuffs. My hit is capped but Expertise is about 3.6% below the cap. I wish they would rethink things and eliminate expertise for us but I know it's too late in the game for that. My simmed dps on the Boss dummy is 43k.

    I also find that the top stat is still, as always, crit. Haste seems more beneficial to MM than to the other specs.
    Last edited by Dch48; 2012-08-21 at 07:58 PM.

  3. #3323
    So I thought we were like, the lowest damage? Why did all of our stuff just get nerfed?

  4. #3324
    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipse View Post
    So I thought we were like, the lowest damage? Why did all of our stuff just get nerfed?
    Yea I'm starting to get a bit worried here. This latest build is prolly gonna put all 3 of our specs at bottom.

    Ok ok, must calm down , its only beta........

  5. #3325
    No reversion of the horrible aspect changes, -and- nerfs to the lowest Hunter spec, and nerfs to Explosive Shot despite it hardly hitting for much at all.

    Is it that difficult to choose better things to nerf, rather than signature shots? And, were they really that strong?

  6. #3326
    Don't stress guys. We were at the top. SimC isn't a great place to figure out the order of top specs right now. While our personal numbers are close to correct, everyone elses are not for the most part. If you watch some raid videos from the last patch, you can see us doing VERY well and sitting at/near the top.

    However, I don't get the nerfs to SV/MM. They really want BM to be the top spec I guess.
    Last edited by Aettis; 2012-08-21 at 09:04 PM.
    Ren of <Ruined>, US Proudmoore

  7. #3327
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aettis View Post
    Don't stress guys. We were at the top. SimC isn't a great place to figure out the order of top specs right now. While our personal numbers are close to correct, everyone elses are not for the most part. If you watch some raid videos from the last patch, you can see us doing VERY well and sitting at/near the top.

    However, I don't get the nerfs to SV/MM. They really want BM to be the top spec I guess.
    Feels like it's against Blizzard's philosophy to have BM as top spec, it will be MM most likely as usual, then Survival.

  8. #3328
    Well they did nerf BM too with the frenzy change. It should make Focus Fire more beneficial though which it should be. Before the newest changes go into effect, I'm seeing BM and SV almost equal with SV slightly ahead, less than 1%. MM trailing by nearly 2k still. I'm also still seeing Fervor significantly over Dire Beast for both BM and SV and the 2 almost equal for MM.
    Last edited by Dch48; 2012-08-21 at 09:13 PM.

  9. #3329
    I really don't get the additional Marksman nerfs, what's up with that?

  10. #3330
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolgrim View Post
    I really don't get the additional Marksman nerfs, what's up with that?
    I might be able to understand the Aimed Shot/Chimera Shot nerfs, as far as raw damage goes. At least on the PTR right now (obviously before this build) Aimed Shot is critting the target dummy for 70-80k, with Chimera critting maybe 38-48k or more.

    That being said, I can totally still stack cooldowns as BM and get 90k Blink Strikes, at level 85.

    Still, these continued nerfs to signature shots are going to have very negative PvP implications. Even if something hits very hard in PvE, it gets cut down by 60-65% by resilience.

  11. #3331
    So frenzy is lower than it is on live now, and it doesn't even proc from pets basic attacks 100% of the time? I don't think 'Lame' is enough to describe this change :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius
    Alas, sweet prince! You hath received thine own ass handed to ye.

  12. #3332
    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Well they did nerf BM too with the frenzy change. It should make Focus Fire more beneficial though which it should be. Before the newest changes go into effect, I'm seeing BM and SV almost equal with SV slightly ahead, less than 1%. MM trailing by nearly 2k still. I'm also still seeing Fervor significantly over Dire Beast for both BM and SV and the 2 almost equal for MM.
    Focus Fire in the last build was still a large boost over Frenzy sitting, I think this nerf was just to reduce BMs damage overall a big. Also, I'm getting SV as about a 5-6k DPS drop on my profile. With Fervor as Worgen, I have BM sitting at 107.6k, with SV at ~102k. I also see Dire Beast as a ~500 DPS boost compared to Fervor as BM, bringing BM up to 108.1k.
    Ren of <Ruined>, US Proudmoore

  13. #3333
    I really don't understand the Frenzy and Marksmanship nerfs at all. MM was already significantly lower than the other 2 specs, why did it get the most extensive nerfs?
    I suppose the Frenzy nerf is to make it a no-brainer to hit Focus Fire, but that's a pretty shitty way to get us to like that button again.

    I'm also pretty shocked that Steady Shot hasn't been buffed yet. It hits like a wet noodle at this point.

  14. #3334
    I think it is about time to stop saying "it's just beta"; we need to start locating the god damn panic button here! We're about a month away from launch and we're in a pretty terrible spot. Hunters, unite! Massive QQ on the official forums, HOOOOOO!!!!!

  15. #3335
    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    I really don't understand the Frenzy and Marksmanship nerfs at all. MM was already significantly lower than the other 2 specs, why did it get the most extensive nerfs?
    I suppose the Frenzy nerf is to make it a no-brainer to hit Focus Fire, but that's a pretty shitty way to get us to like that button again.

    I'm also pretty shocked that Steady Shot hasn't been buffed yet. It hits like a wet noodle at this point.
    You insult wet noodles everywhere by comparing the awful damage of Steady Shot to it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ovacor View Post
    I think it is about time to stop saying "it's just beta"; we need to start locating the god damn panic button here! We're about a month away from launch and we're in a pretty terrible spot. Hunters, unite! Massive QQ on the official forums, HOOOOOO!!!!!

    The only reason we're in a bad spot now is because of how bad they fucked us over by putting Aspects on the normal GCD.

    Our DPS shouldn't be that bad, though. Not sure about Marksmanship.
    Last edited by Penguintamer; 2012-08-21 at 09:40 PM.

  16. #3336
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovacor View Post
    I think it is about time to stop saying "it's just beta"; we need to start locating the god damn panic button here! We're about a month away from launch and we're in a pretty terrible spot. Hunters, unite! Massive QQ on the official forums, HOOOOOO!!!!!
    We're not in a bad spot though! :| We're in a very good spot. While I dont understand the MM nerfs, BM and SV are doing great.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-21 at 09:50 PM ----------

    Quote Originally Posted by Marxman View Post
    I really don't understand the Frenzy and Marksmanship nerfs at all. MM was already significantly lower than the other 2 specs, why did it get the most extensive nerfs?
    I suppose the Frenzy nerf is to make it a no-brainer to hit Focus Fire, but that's a pretty shitty way to get us to like that button again.

    I'm also pretty shocked that Steady Shot hasn't been buffed yet. It hits like a wet noodle at this point.
    Frenzy nerf was probably just to bring down BM DPS a tad. Focus Fire is already worth hitting after the last nerf to Frenzy.
    Ren of <Ruined>, US Proudmoore

  17. #3337
    Quote Originally Posted by Aettis View Post
    We're not in a bad spot though! :| We're in a very good spot. While I dont understand the MM nerfs, BM and SV are doing great.

    ---------- Post added 2012-08-21 at 09:50 PM ----------



    Frenzy nerf was probably just to bring down BM DPS a tad. Focus Fire is already worth hitting after the last nerf to Frenzy.
    Basing my information purely off of hearsay, but I thought BM and Survival were both pretty far down "there" on the charts as well. <shrug>

  18. #3338
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovacor View Post
    Basing my information purely off of hearsay, but I thought BM and Survival were both pretty far down "there" on the charts as well. <shrug>
    Thats the thing I'm trying to get across. Those simmed charts everyone sees and bases their opinion on are not as accurate as you think. The hunter numbers(not position) are pretty accurate. however, we have many sim people(such as Zeherah) who are actively working on it and fixing bugs, etc. The others, however, are not as fortunate. Throw on the fact that we are at the top in most raids in the Beta, and you can see that the sims are not the best place to look(which is what Ghostcrawler has been saying in the thread). Theory(sims) mean nothing if there is no experience(real in-game testing) to back them up.
    Ren of <Ruined>, US Proudmoore

  19. #3339
    Quote Originally Posted by Ovacor View Post
    Basing my information purely off of hearsay, but I thought BM and Survival were both pretty far down "there" on the charts as well. <shrug>
    Bm and Survival were top of the meters on a lot of the fights. The only exceptions being constant multi-target fights such as Stone guards/garalon. The reason we are so low on simcraft is what Aettis said and also the fact that we lose very little dps from moving. Most of the classes that are simming 10k higher dps than us cannot realistically do that kind of dps in a raid situation. However, hunters pull numbers that are very close to their maximum almost all the time.

  20. #3340
    See the homepage, plus some nerfs to hunter to build 16010.
    Last edited by cmacedo; 2012-08-21 at 10:39 PM.

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