1. #3301
    Quote Originally Posted by DarkPhoenix View Post
    I have a gut feeling that PVP gear will be more of a stop-gap measure in PVE this tier due to the increased value of secondary stats that blizzard have implemented.

    For instance in the full PVP set available on the BETA its pretty much impossible to reach decent levels of hit and expertise (with reforging) and it messes a hell of a lot with your crit/mastery/haste levels.

    Of course theres going to be a much reduced effect on your 2ndary stat levels if you're only using one or two pieces of PVP gear, but I don't think it will be like the start of cata where you had every hunter and his dog decked out in 70% PVP gear in the entry level raids.

    Just my opinion of course, i'm sure someone can crunch the numbers more effectively.

    Everyone was decked in PvP gear because of the agility bonus from the set making it significantly stronger than anything but heroic pieces, not because the gear itself was strong enough to warrant it.

    Zeherah, roughly how big a change (%) does the dire beast change give the different specs?

  2. #3302
    Quote Originally Posted by Dracodraco View Post
    Everyone was decked in PvP gear because of the agility bonus from the set making it significantly stronger than anything but heroic pieces, not because the gear itself was strong enough to warrant it.

    Zeherah, roughly how big a change (%) does the dire beast change give the different specs?
    I don't think people will be decked out in PVP gear 4 weeks into raids but I think there will be more PVP gear than PVE gear for the first two weeks while no one has valor or has gotten drops from the raids. It's just too easy to get compared to the H dungeon gear...

    I also wouldn't be surprised if some classes keep 2 or even 4 pieces for the pvp set bonuses until the tier gear is available from the later raids a month after release. I don't think hunters are in that boat but some other classes probably are.

  3. #3303
    Did the Glyph of Concussive Shot make a comeback yet?

    They stole this one from us by implementing and reverting the arcane shot change a few months ago. They reverted everything but the glyph, and that one was the most fun glyph for a hunter in PvP (not sure how those on the receiving end felt...).

  4. #3304
    Quote Originally Posted by Sarevoc View Post
    Did the Glyph of Concussive Shot make a comeback yet?

    They stole this one from us by implementing and reverting the arcane shot change a few months ago. They reverted everything but the glyph, and that one was the most fun glyph for a hunter in PvP (not sure how those on the receiving end felt...).
    Sadly, no, it no longer exists.

  5. #3305
    I have a feeling that we're gonna be worst in the release of MoP that we are on live. Just a feeling... PvP PoV.
    Last edited by Gotjuice; 2012-08-21 at 06:16 PM.
    "Druid must be boss, Hunter is just Drain-monkey.

    Hunter scatter this rogue.
    Hunter drain that priest.
    Hunter where is frost trap. Bad Hunter! No banana!
    Hunter where is flare? No flare, you get replaced by retarded warrior!"

    -Huainy

  6. #3306
    Will BM with lynx rush and DB be needed to be timed with BW for reduced cost or are people finding it better to just use them on CD. I found myself on beta as BM more focus needs to be given to actual core rotation/ priority than worrying too much about when to time lynx rush etc... I see alot of people using glaives over barrage and PS (PvE). Do you guys think barrage is going to have much use at all? I can see obviously PS being useful in PvP but even as BM or Surv with SrS spread the options if using multishot as Surv or multishot with beast cleave under BW will always be preferred to barrage. I'm just wondering if anyone is opting to use this talent. If not then my initial suspicions about out level 90 talents being just another shot to be keybound and underwhelming in terms of dynamic choices worried me with the expansion so close.

  7. #3307
    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    Will BM with lynx rush and DB be needed to be timed with BW for reduced cost or are people finding it better to just use them on CD. I found myself on beta as BM more focus needs to be given to actual core rotation/ priority than worrying too much about when to time lynx rush etc... I see alot of people using glaives over barrage and PS (PvE). Do you guys think barrage is going to have much use at all? I can see obviously PS being useful in PvP but even as BM or Surv with SrS spread the options if using multishot as Surv or multishot with beast cleave under BW will always be preferred to barrage. I'm just wondering if anyone is opting to use this talent. If not then my initial suspicions about out level 90 talents being just another shot to be keybound and underwhelming in terms of dynamic choices worried me with the expansion so close.
    I think that there is always that possibility that barrage might be the talent of choice for MM if they continue to buff it or something, as it can proc WQ nicely.

  8. #3308
    Quote Originally Posted by Windthorn View Post
    Will BM with lynx rush and DB be needed to be timed with BW for reduced cost or are people finding it better to just use them on CD. I found myself on beta as BM more focus needs to be given to actual core rotation/ priority than worrying too much about when to time lynx rush etc... I see alot of people using glaives over barrage and PS (PvE). Do you guys think barrage is going to have much use at all? I can see obviously PS being useful in PvP but even as BM or Surv with SrS spread the options if using multishot as Surv or multishot with beast cleave under BW will always be preferred to barrage. I'm just wondering if anyone is opting to use this talent. If not then my initial suspicions about out level 90 talents being just another shot to be keybound and underwhelming in terms of dynamic choices worried me with the expansion so close.
    Dire Beast and Lynx Rush both have no cost, so that shouldn't be a worry. Use DB on CD, and LR on CD. LR has a 30 second longer CD than BW does, so you just want to use it when its avail. Half the time it will match up with BW for extra damage. Barrage seems to be the least picked. Powershot seems liked in PvP, and Glaive Toss for all PvE specs.

  9. #3309
    Yes Barrage could be good for MM but seeing that my primary spec is BM and secondary SV, coupled with the fact that I hate channeled abilities, I will be sticking with Glaive Toss.

    I will say that my tests on femaledwarf are done with the full set of Malevolent Gladiator gear with no enchants and only the gems available to my premade jewelcrafting toon. In other words, the blue quality Cata gems. I'm doing that because that's all that is available to my Hunter in the Beta and it lets me test on the dummies to see how close I get to what the sim says. On the level 90 dummy I can get about 90% of the sim figures. On the boss dummy, mainly because it's impossible to get both hit and expertise capped in the PvP gear without seriously gimping yourself in other areas, I can only get about 75-80%. I also test without any raid buffs or debuffs. My hit is capped but Expertise is about 3.6% below the cap. I wish they would rethink things and eliminate expertise for us but I know it's too late in the game for that. My simmed dps on the Boss dummy is 43k.

    I also find that the top stat is still, as always, crit. Haste seems more beneficial to MM than to the other specs.
    Last edited by Dch48; 2012-08-21 at 07:58 PM.
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  10. #3310
    So I thought we were like, the lowest damage? Why did all of our stuff just get nerfed?

  11. #3311
    Quote Originally Posted by 3clipse View Post
    So I thought we were like, the lowest damage? Why did all of our stuff just get nerfed?
    Yea I'm starting to get a bit worried here. This latest build is prolly gonna put all 3 of our specs at bottom.

    Ok ok, must calm down , its only beta........

  12. #3312
    No reversion of the horrible aspect changes, -and- nerfs to the lowest Hunter spec, and nerfs to Explosive Shot despite it hardly hitting for much at all.

    Is it that difficult to choose better things to nerf, rather than signature shots? And, were they really that strong?

  13. #3313
    Don't stress guys. We were at the top. SimC isn't a great place to figure out the order of top specs right now. While our personal numbers are close to correct, everyone elses are not for the most part. If you watch some raid videos from the last patch, you can see us doing VERY well and sitting at/near the top.

    However, I don't get the nerfs to SV/MM. They really want BM to be the top spec I guess.
    Last edited by Renley; 2012-08-21 at 09:04 PM.

  14. #3314
    Quote Originally Posted by Aettis View Post
    Don't stress guys. We were at the top. SimC isn't a great place to figure out the order of top specs right now. While our personal numbers are close to correct, everyone elses are not for the most part. If you watch some raid videos from the last patch, you can see us doing VERY well and sitting at/near the top.

    However, I don't get the nerfs to SV/MM. They really want BM to be the top spec I guess.
    Feels like it's against Blizzard's philosophy to have BM as top spec, it will be MM most likely as usual, then Survival.

  15. #3315
    Well they did nerf BM too with the frenzy change. It should make Focus Fire more beneficial though which it should be. Before the newest changes go into effect, I'm seeing BM and SV almost equal with SV slightly ahead, less than 1%. MM trailing by nearly 2k still. I'm also still seeing Fervor significantly over Dire Beast for both BM and SV and the 2 almost equal for MM.
    Last edited by Dch48; 2012-08-21 at 09:13 PM.
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  16. #3316
    Deleted
    I really don't get the additional Marksman nerfs, what's up with that?

  17. #3317
    Quote Originally Posted by Tolgrim View Post
    I really don't get the additional Marksman nerfs, what's up with that?
    I might be able to understand the Aimed Shot/Chimera Shot nerfs, as far as raw damage goes. At least on the PTR right now (obviously before this build) Aimed Shot is critting the target dummy for 70-80k, with Chimera critting maybe 38-48k or more.

    That being said, I can totally still stack cooldowns as BM and get 90k Blink Strikes, at level 85.

    Still, these continued nerfs to signature shots are going to have very negative PvP implications. Even if something hits very hard in PvE, it gets cut down by 60-65% by resilience.

  18. #3318
    So frenzy is lower than it is on live now, and it doesn't even proc from pets basic attacks 100% of the time? I don't think 'Lame' is enough to describe this change :/
    Quote Originally Posted by Herecius
    Alas, sweet prince! You hath received thine own ass handed to ye.

  19. #3319
    Quote Originally Posted by Dch48 View Post
    Well they did nerf BM too with the frenzy change. It should make Focus Fire more beneficial though which it should be. Before the newest changes go into effect, I'm seeing BM and SV almost equal with SV slightly ahead, less than 1%. MM trailing by nearly 2k still. I'm also still seeing Fervor significantly over Dire Beast for both BM and SV and the 2 almost equal for MM.
    Focus Fire in the last build was still a large boost over Frenzy sitting, I think this nerf was just to reduce BMs damage overall a big. Also, I'm getting SV as about a 5-6k DPS drop on my profile. With Fervor as Worgen, I have BM sitting at 107.6k, with SV at ~102k. I also see Dire Beast as a ~500 DPS boost compared to Fervor as BM, bringing BM up to 108.1k.

  20. #3320
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    I really don't understand the Frenzy and Marksmanship nerfs at all. MM was already significantly lower than the other 2 specs, why did it get the most extensive nerfs?
    I suppose the Frenzy nerf is to make it a no-brainer to hit Focus Fire, but that's a pretty shitty way to get us to like that button again.

    I'm also pretty shocked that Steady Shot hasn't been buffed yet. It hits like a wet noodle at this point.

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