Page 5 of 9 FirstFirst ...
3
4
5
6
7
... LastLast
  1. #81
    Quote Originally Posted by Creed View Post
    I'd really like someone to try out some things as Assassination on beta (PvP)

    1) With Subterfuge, if you open, can you be targeted/seen? (I assume seen) for the 3 seconds you're doing your thing?
    2) Leeching Poison doesn't give a solid duration it poisons the target for. How long is it, and how is the healing from it stacking up? Since it only heals you from "weapon strikes".
    3) Shadowstep..getting better..still needs a little work, maybe reduce the cooldown by 4 seconds liek before. (seriously, wat?) This wasn't a question... This is working as intended. Moving on.
    4) Paralytic Poison..DR with other stuns/our own stuns? Or are they using Frost Mage logic and utilizing the "Proc DR" like Cone and barrier were on.
    5) Blindside. Does Dispatch still require its energy cost? I'll assume it does, just want confirmation.
    6) Overall, how is the damage output of Assassination feeling, compared to Subtlety and Combat?
    7) Swiftblade's Cunning. (Not Assassination specific) Is the 10% melee haste buffing our energy regeneration, or was it a rumor?

    Thank you in advance for answers.
    Don't have the beta still, but some guildies have it so i asked them for these
    1) it seems you are in fact stealthed for 3 seconds - this doesn't mean you cannot be seen/targeted, they can see/target you if you're too near like now.
    2) When it procs, it leaves a debuff on target, and while the debuff is up each damage you deal will heal you for 10% of the damage dealt. I need more tests to see if the debuff stays up easily or drops often.
    3) it doesn't give any additional benefit apart the blink
    4) it has its own DR; it can be predictable and dispellable, but keep in mind that shiv applies 3 stack of it
    5) yes, it still costs energy - but it has a better DPE than mutilate, so when it procs, you should use it.
    6) too soon to say this. We don't have good and long bosses to test well the sustained damage of specs. Also, rotations can change a lot depending on what talents you get.
    7) it seems so. from what i have received, every rogue says that they have more energy regen than before - anyway it could be a bug and totally unintended.

  2. #82
    Quote Originally Posted by jtstormrage View Post
    As you indicate, they have to change this skill to also increase DP procs for slow weapons, to be viable single target.
    in beta, you can not put DP on your offhand anymore...

    MH: Deadly / Wound
    OH: Leeching (if specced) / Cripling / Paralising

  3. #83
    High Overlord Creed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Cicero, N.Y.
    Posts
    125
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Don't have the beta still, but some guildies have it so i asked them for these
    1) it seems you are in fact stealthed for 3 seconds - this doesn't mean you cannot be seen/targeted, they can see/target you if you're too near like now.
    2) When it procs, it leaves a debuff on target, and while the debuff is up each damage you deal will heal you for 10% of the damage dealt. I need more tests to see if the debuff stays up easily or drops often.
    3) it doesn't give any additional benefit apart the blink
    4) it has its own DR; it can be predictable and dispellable, but keep in mind that shiv applies 3 stack of it
    5) yes, it still costs energy - but it has a better DPE than mutilate, so when it procs, you should use it.
    6) too soon to say this. We don't have good and long bosses to test well the sustained damage of specs. Also, rotations can change a lot depending on what talents you get.
    7) it seems so. from what i have received, every rogue says that they have more energy regen than before - anyway it could be a bug and totally unintended.
    I mean pvp damage... i don't care much about pve. its faceroll.

  4. #84
    Quote Originally Posted by Creed View Post
    I mean pvp damage... i don't care much about pve. its faceroll.
    PvP damage is the same It's all about control and controlled burst, and we are good in both :P Sub with Shadow Dance has anyway an advantage imho, due to find weakness and the possibility to do burst/bleed/stun by choice.

    Anyway, the best pvp tools are some of the talents, so you have access to them with every spec

  5. #85
    Quote Originally Posted by Chavez76 View Post
    in beta, you can not put DP on your offhand anymore...

    MH: Deadly / Wound
    OH: Leeching (if specced) / Cripling / Paralising
    Not quite, Poisons are a self buff now, you apply them and they are just on, both weapons have a chance to proc both poisons.

    2) When it procs, it leaves a debuff on target, and while the debuff is up each damage you deal will heal you for 10% of the damage dealt. I need more tests to see if the debuff stays up easily or drops often.
    3) it doesn't give any additional benefit apart the blink
    7) it seems so. from what i have received, every rogue says that they have more energy regen than before - anyway it could be a bug and totally unintended.
    2) The Leeching Poison debuff lasts for 10 sec, even just auto attacking it get refreshed in less than 3 sec.
    3) SS has the move speed buff back, 70% for 2sec, still no dmg bonuses though.
    7) It appears it does not increase energy regen. With absolutely no gear on I have exactly 10% haste, and my regen is 10eps as Sub and 12eps as Combat (Vitality). This corresponds to live where WF doesn't affect regen.
    Last edited by Tahirii; 2012-04-01 at 03:28 AM.

  6. #86
    High Overlord
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Irish - Lives in Glasgow
    Posts
    101
    Very Strange glyph changes in the new build, don't know what to make of them. The backstab one doesn't make sense unless the name is being changed, as it's got nothing to do with backstab now.

    I persume detection is heightened stealth detection?

    and new pickpocket one is a minor so that's comphrensible.

  7. #87
    New glyphs are more for estetic reason, since the prime/mandatory ones are baked into abilities.

    The new abilities are kinda cool, and aoe finisher and that shadow damage CD looks op at the moment.

  8. #88
    Yeah that new AoE finisher sounds really cool. If it applies a bleed to all targets within 8 yards, I wonder if it will stack with venomous wounds. Seeing as it's a bleed I don't see a reason why it shouldn't. The shadow damage sounds really fun as well. From an assassination point of view, it's basically one mutilate-finisher for 12 seconds, if mutilate crits consistently. Can even make it 5-point finishers if ruthlessness always procs.

    All and all, looks interesting.

  9. #89
    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami-Okami View Post
    Yeah that new AoE finisher sounds really cool. If it applies a bleed to all targets within 8 yards, I wonder if it will stack with venomous wounds. Seeing as it's a bleed I don't see a reason why it shouldn't. The shadow damage sounds really fun as well. From an assassination point of view, it's basically one mutilate-finisher for 12 seconds, if mutilate crits consistently. Can even make it 5-point finishers if ruthlessness always procs.

    All and all, looks interesting.

    That would be a little bit op in my opinion as it will result in an endless bombfest from outer space.
    On the other side it would throw in a new ability to the assassination cycle that will increase our energy regen slightly. (even though i never had a problem with energy management as assassination (also the current 'venomous wounds' tooltip says it has a chance to proc of rupture/garrote and not bleeds in general .. oh and ruthlessness is gone iirc ))

  10. #90
    Quote Originally Posted by joepesci View Post
    Nope, that's not the correct translation.
    Translation is: I want to force a fight until the end, anyone can win, no one escapes. This is possible against most other classes, impossible with rogues. You can't even gank a ilvl 350 rogue as ilvl 400 hunter, if you don't two shot him and his only concern is to escape. L2flare doesn't help.
    Flare his vanish noob

  11. #91
    Quote Originally Posted by Izanami-Okami View Post
    Yeah that new AoE finisher sounds really cool. If it applies a bleed to all targets within 8 yards, I wonder if it will stack with venomous wounds. Seeing as it's a bleed I don't see a reason why it shouldn't.
    .
    Because Venonous Wounds got reworded, that's why it shouldn't
    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire
    not quite Batman

  12. #92
    So I've had some time to consider slow/slow combat given the change to combat potency, so I will outline my thoughts here. I do not have access to beta yet so I can not do mechanics testing yet, but here is my consideration:

    The wording of the tooltip states that combat potency has a proportionally higher chance to proc with a slower weapon, ie, a ppm basis. The actual chance to strike based on offhand weapon speed is yet to be determined. I will presume that it's normalized to a 20% proc chance on a 1.4 speed weapon, such that a 2.6 speed off-hand would have a ~37% chance to proc.

    When considering autoattacks, this should result in the same net energy income vs an offhand weapon of, well, any other speed. The difference, however, is that more energy will be gained through any additional off-hand attack--shiv and killing spree. Shiv can effectively be ignored, but the given conjecture assumes a 1.8 dagger vs 2.6 offhand and CP normalized to 20% chance on a 1.4 speed weapon.

    Given that, a killing spree will net 27 energy with a 1.8 dagger and 39 energy with a 2.6 speed offhand--not even considering energy gained from autoattack-CP procs. Given that the slow offhand will also increase killing spree damage, this tends to favor a slow offhand, but I very highly doubt this will outweigh the loss of poison damage for the other ~95% of a fight that you are not in a killing spree.

    The part that has me wondering though, is MG-based combat potency procs. What I'm wondering is if MG combat potency procs are a fixed proc chance or based on the currently equipped offhand proc chance. If it's based on the currently equipped offhand it could yield a fairly significant additional source of energy. Whether or not that outweighs poison damage will have to be determined if that is true, however.

  13. #93
    Hey, you're right. We weren't considering MG combat potency procs. That could potentially make slow/slow more competitive. Looking at some of my recent logs, I had about half as many MG procs as offhand attacks, meaning MG would make up about a third of my combat potency procs. So, if MG combat potency procs are scaled up with a slow weapon, that could be a significant energy gain.
    I also foresee poison being nerfed a bit before MoP comes out, so it may very well be viable.

  14. #94
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Hey, you're right. We weren't considering MG combat potency procs. That could potentially make slow/slow more competitive. Looking at some of my recent logs, I had about half as many MG procs as offhand attacks, meaning MG would make up about a third of my combat potency procs. So, if MG combat potency procs are scaled up with a slow weapon, that could be a significant energy gain.
    I also foresee poison being nerfed a bit before MoP comes out, so it may very well be viable.
    If MG combat potency procs are normalized it'll be based on the mainhand weapon's speed, so offhand speed won't make a difference.

  15. #95
    Quote Originally Posted by Pikatrap View Post
    If MG combat potency procs are normalized it'll be based on the mainhand weapon's speed, so offhand speed won't make a difference.
    And how did you come to that conclusion?

    Here's what Boub wrote about combat potency:
    Combat Potency: Slower off-hand weapons have a proportionally higher chance to trigger Combat Potency.
    I don't see anything there limiting it to procs from offhand strikes, or MG combat potency procs not being scaled up.


    Someone should do a few 10 minute dummy tests with WoL. See if there is a noticible energy change between slow and fast offhands.

  16. #96
    Main Gauche procs only from main hand attacks doing main hand attacks - this is what i get from the tooltip wording. Nothing has to do with OH weapon speed, this means that a slow or fast OH won't affect MG procs.

    current mastery - http://www.wowhead.com/spell=76806
    mop mastery - http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=76806

  17. #97
    Quote Originally Posted by Coldkil View Post
    Main Gauche procs only from main hand attacks doing main hand attacks - this is what i get from the tooltip wording. Nothing has to do with OH weapon speed, this means that a slow or fast OH won't affect MG procs.

    current mastery - http://www.wowhead.com/spell=76806
    mop mastery - http://mop.wowhead.com/spell=76806

    Yes, but this has nothing to do what we're talking about. MG also has a chance to proc Combat Potency. If it has the same chance to proc combat potency as the offhand attacks do, there will be a pretty significant gain in energy by going slow/slow.

  18. #98
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    IN A PICKLE
    Posts
    4,382
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Yes, but this has nothing to do what we're talking about. MG also has a chance to proc Combat Potency. If it has the same chance to proc combat potency as the offhand attacks do, there will be a pretty significant gain in energy by going slow/slow.
    If one has any theories on how to test this, it's entirely possible for me to dump a combat log off the beta for analysis.

    Edit: Probably just only one hand with a weapon in it, autoattacking in a stacked mastery set?

  19. #99
    Quote Originally Posted by Validity View Post
    If one has any theories on how to test this, it's entirely possible for me to dump a combat log off the beta for analysis.

    Just log it with WoL like normal, testing a normal rotation for 10-15 minutes with a slow offhand weapon, then do the same with a fast offhand weapon. Preferrably with white offhands.

    In the buffs section it says how much energy is gained via Combat Potency, just compare the two values. I'd expect a 15-30% increase in energy from Combat Potency on a slow weapon if MG combat potency procs do scale with weapon speed. You can also test with super high mastery values to inflate the differences a bit, but it shouldn't be necessary.

  20. #100
    Scarab Lord Viridiancity's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    IN A PICKLE
    Posts
    4,382
    I just threw together a very quick and informal test, since I'm not really keen on staying up much later tonight, but in a quick parse, with a Slow mainhand and a Thermostatic Egg Timer offhand (IE, no useful offhand), to test Main Gauche procs for combat energy returns, I saw:

    18 procs of Combat Potency with 118 Main Gauche triggers.

    Certainly not enough data to be reliable. I'll do more sometime later.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •