[Rogue] Official Beta Discussion

[Ryme]

IMO
Assasination: shadow focus speced and opens with mutilate
Combat: shadow focus speced and opens with RS
Subtetly: Subterfuge speced and opens with (prem) garrote followed by ambushx2 ( anticipation will fix CP cap)

I haven't done any number crunching myself, but can we so easily dismiss getting a quick garrotte opening as assassination? It lasts a fair while now and still procs venomous wounds and the energy regen.

[catablitz]

I haven't done any number crunching myself, but can we so easily dismiss getting a quick garrotte opening as assassination? It lasts a fair while now and still procs venomous wounds and the energy regen.

Your argument is valid but opening with mutilate while shadow focus speced means: a free 55 energy cost attack, that can proc dispatch, a 2 weapons attack that can proc enchants, 2-3 instant CPs, instant damage.

Exactly. If you can, open with garrote, but it's not a big deal due to the presence of Shadow Focus and the removal of Overkill.

[Kael]

IMO
Assasination: shadow focus speced and opens with mutilate
Combat: shadow focus speced and opens with RS
Subtetly: Subterfuge speced and opens with (prem) garrote followed by ambushx2 ( anticipation will fix CP cap)

Your sub lineup seems to be using 165 energy in 2.01 seconds with no buffed energy regen. Hax?

"Conclusion:

I don't have one. As far as I've been able to ball park it *seems* like Subterfuge, starting with a Garrote-->Ambush--> SnD, is going to be the best option, due to being fully ramped up in 3 globals. But honestly the entire thing seems like it needs to be modeled in order to really know the answer. Factoring in things like the armor reduction on the first Ambush is beyond me. I guess the good news is nothing is so obviously "the right answer" that it's far and away the best option." - http://elitistjerks.com/f78/t126898-...all_specs/p32/ Lumen222

As to the assassination discussion, I'm sure it's being modeled but iirc the bonus of having the bleed up overtakes Mutilate as an opener, and gives you a bit of opening time... I'll have to go back and check (Edit: still in discussions, as to whether garrote for a quicker SnD or mut for quicker rupture models on top). For combat, it's possible* that RvS will be on top, but given that it's a free attack, I see Ambush as the more likely best opener, for free. No, it doesn't push you 1/4 closer to 10% more damage (a 2.5% increase?) but extra CPs are a premium for combat as it is, and the opening damage is much higher.

Also, why wouldn't you be able to open with garrote? If you're talking positionally, the requirement to be in the back is gone (as I was corrected in a sub thread some time back).

[Azshira]

Just thought I'd jump on in here with the newest change to Cheat Death:

- Cheat Death can now only absorb up to twice the rogue's maximum health.

Source: http://blue.mmo-champion.com/topic/2...-505-hotfixes/

[Deleted]

I see no posts about rogues at all, but on live i can see something is CLEARLY wrong?
is rogue intented to get owned by a lvl 85 when you are level 87 yourself?
I tryed backstab build with full cataclysm against a 85 lock, my crits is like 23 AT MOST, his crits is like 39 (same gear)
I've tried Assassination spec, and it is the best in my opinion. but my muti crits are no higher than 20k main and 6 offhand. my evenom is 25 +.
Blizzard, is it the idea that rogues should be nerfet to the ground, since we've been insanely OP in Cataclysm. (I know rogues were too strong in Cataclysm)
Are we going to be replaced by the monk class?
In level 90, i see nothing but hard times for rogues. Abselutly zero burst even with vendetta, only burst assa rogues got is Dispatch?.
Rogue got more substained dmg. but srsly if this is intented, i will leave a class i have played for 8 years! NEVER have rogues been this bad, you should be ashamed blizzard!

Sorry for all the missspells.

[Kael]

You most certainly should lose, in the same gear level, to someone levels below you. As you level, the stats required to get the same effect increase, but your stats did not. While your ratings should be the same, the 85's effective haste/crit/mastery are SOARING above yours; you've been outgeared.

Beyond that, class balance for 1v1, pvp before 90, blah blah blah all applies. Also, you're not really talking to Blizzard on this forum (MMO-champion), but to other players.

[Coldkil]

Unstickied thread, since beta is long finished.