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  1. #1
    High Overlord Dragon-Hawks's Avatar
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    Rogue New Talent, Skills & Specs Beta Video

    Hey,

    This is a video showing the UI with the details of Rogues talents, skills and spec in MoP beta, hope you find it useful!


  2. #2
    I just realized when I was about to click play... I am actually so not interested in these changes / new abilities that I can't be bothered to watch it...

    Hopefully they will come out with something that will 'wow' me because at this point I think I'm more likely to just switch games than reroll a new toon from scratch.

  3. #3
    Holy shit Bandit's Guile no longer fades when switching targets. My dreams are coming true.

  4. #4
    The hemo changes I haven't seen anyone comment on-
    Instead of causing a BLEED, hemo causes some kind of physical dot, but ONLY if used on a bleeding target (garrote, rupture). Bleeds will be dispelled by monks every 8 seconds in pvp, and the 16% damage bonus against bleeding targets has been increased to 20%. That is a LOT of bleed dependence to be wiped away in full every 8 seconds!

    Presumably, since it is not a bleed, the hemo dot will be undispellable by anything short of immunity or physical immunity effects, much like it is today (luffa, heh).

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-22 at 11:28 PM ----------

    -Specifically, this means the only bleeds available to rogues are rupture and garrote, both of which require substantial resource expenditure. We don't have a "rake" equivalent, and a LOT of our damage (a quarter?) will be based on this.

    ---------- Post added 2012-03-23 at 12:01 AM ----------

    Oh, the hemo bleed change also absolutely POOPS on sub rogues in 10 mans. You switch to a target, nowadays you hemo it right? Instead, you can't do that, you have to rupture it, most of which will be wasted, in order get that damage going. Heck, if you don't have a feral or a warrior in the group, you have this problem on every single thing. This assumes rupture is even worth using unless it is buying you the 20% extra damage to bleeding targets- without a buff, it won't, unless the refresh-rupture-talent is secretly still around despite not being in the video. A single rupture is not worth pressing for any spec unless the spec buys you off in some way- currently sub buys you off by promising infinite refresh, assassination by promising energy and poison damage (this remains), and combat only under the situation that you will turn to a better color so much of the lifetime of the rupture will be spent under a better bonus. A rupture buff would address this, but we have no idea if that is coming.

    The more I think about it, the more I'm really dreading the hemo bleed going away. Without that we will have serious problems target swapping in pvp, as a non ruptured target will take only 80% damage from all attacks- and that's before the monks start purging it every 8 seconds.

    Whatever, it's beta. I'm just worried because, just like the prep-shs change, this required someone think about it, so he's gonna defend it with ferocious ego and we'll probably have a season without an arena spec or something :P

  5. #5
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Oh, the hemo bleed change also absolutely POOPS on sub rogues in 10 mans. You switch to a target, nowadays you hemo it right? Instead, you can't do that, you have to rupture it, most of which will be wasted, in order get that damage going. Heck, if you don't have a feral or a warrior in the group, you have this problem on every single thing. This assumes rupture is even worth using unless it is buying you the 20% extra damage to bleeding targets- without a buff, it won't, unless the refresh-rupture-talent is secretly still around despite not being in the video. A single rupture is not worth pressing for any spec unless the spec buys you off in some way- currently sub buys you off by promising infinite refresh, assassination by promising energy and poison damage (this remains), and combat only under the situation that you will turn to a better color so much of the lifetime of the rupture will be spent under a better bonus. A rupture buff would address this, but we have no idea if that is coming.

    The more I think about it, the more I'm really dreading the hemo bleed going away. Without that we will have serious problems target swapping in pvp, as a non ruptured target will take only 80% damage from all attacks- and that's before the monks start purging it every 8 seconds.

    Whatever, it's beta. I'm just worried because, just like the prep-shs change, this required someone think about it, so he's gonna defend it with ferocious ego and we'll probably have a season without an arena spec or something :P
    Its very strange from a pvp and pve view they removed next to all of assassination's ramp up in both and made sub the worst target switcher when it was the best lol. I also love how all the other melee's gap closer is 15sec and shadowstep is still 24sec and has no mini sprint and you have to give up prep to get lol.

  6. #6
    Pit Lord Galbrei's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Holy shit Bandit's Guile no longer fades when switching targets. My dreams are coming true.
    You my good sir just made my day.

  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    Specifically, this means the only bleeds available to rogues are rupture and garrote, both of which require substantial resource expenditure. We don't have a "rake" equivalent, and a LOT of our damage (a quarter?) will be based on this

    Whatever, it's beta. I'm just worried because, just like the prep-shs change, this required someone think about it, so he's gonna defend it with ferocious ego and we'll probably have a season without an arena spec or something :P
    They realized rogues had a PvE spec with a rather small barrier to target swapping and fixed it, lol. IMO without an on demand bleed ability (like current hemo, openers and finishers don't count) sub's dps gimmick of needing a bleed is almost as bad as bandits guile.

    I'm worried because all the crap we got stuck with for cata ended up making it live and we sucked. It may only be beta, but thats what everyone said before Cata launch and the crap from beta went live.

    Quote Originally Posted by Galbrei View Post
    You my good sir just made my day.
    Crap mechanic is still crap mechanic. Now its just slightly less crappy than the last version... why the hell did they decide combat needed a mechanic like that... it was absolutely fine in wrath.

  8. #8
    Man, combat is looking to be in such a fucking good position in MoP, at least PvE wise.

    1) Bandit's Guile not fading on switches. This is fucking huge and lets us get anticipation on almost all fights, whose usage will be explained in a bit.
    2) Shadowstep. Awesome, instant gap closer. Always wanted this as combat.
    3) Leeching poison. You're healed for 10% of the damage you do, as if rogues weren't invincible enough already!
    4) Poison not needing to stack 5 times. We can switch targets without losing tons of dps (actually it may be a dps gain)!
    5) New killing spree (not yet implemented in video) will be a pain in the ass to use on multiple targets, but on single target fights it will be huge.

    6) Finally, anticipation. Fucking anticipation. The number of uses for this talent as combat are limitless. Every SnD can be refreshed at 5 combo points with 0 seconds remaining on the previous one, without losing energy or combo points. You can pool extra combo points and save finishers for the next level of Bandit's Guile. You can spam Sinister Strike more in AR in order to get rid of some extra energy and maybe not cap when you use a finisher. This talent is awesome, and will really help distinguish the good rogues from the bad.

    I'm a previous MoP hater, but now I'm somewhat looking forward to this expansion...

  9. #9
    I hate what they have done to sub its a joke. Pve speaking.

    anticipation I can c also working well with assin. I haven't seen many videos but how does end venom work now?

  10. #10
    hmm cold blood still not changed.... most outdated ability, and i'm gonna guess assa still will fall behind combat and sub with their % increase in ap and agi, not sure why but rogues look just the same as before just gotten rid of some of the few issues like ramp up time.

  11. #11
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Verain View Post
    and the 16% damage bonus against bleeding targets has been increased to 20%.
    Where? Because honestly.. i can't find it anywhere. It looks like it's gone rather then increased. Bleed dependance seems to be gone.

    Unless i'm missing something..

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  12. #12
    Every issue I had with rogues this expansion, has been fixed.

    Bandits guile on the target - fixed
    Poison Ramp-up Time - Fixed
    Energy capping - fixed with new ss glyph which the old ss glyph has been weaved into RvS

    thank you blizz.
    Last edited by Vishiz; 2012-03-23 at 10:32 AM.

  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by Vishiz View Post
    Every issue I had with rogues this expansion, has been fixed.

    Bandits guile on the target - fixed
    Poison Ramp-up Time - Fixed
    Energy capping - fixed with new ss glyph which the old ss glyph has been weaved into RvS

    thank you blizz.
    Well actually the new SS glyph will be a massive dps loss in just about any situation...

    We're also getting a few minor nerfs (blade flurry glyph killed, tricks glyph killed, feint costing energy even glyphed...), but all around Combat is looking great.

  14. #14
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Well actually the new SS glyph will be a massive dps loss in just about any situation...

    We're also getting a few minor nerfs (blade flurry glyph killed, tricks glyph killed, feint costing energy even glyphed...), but all around Combat is looking great.
    Actually, if it prevents you from capping its still better. Simply because you'll use it almost every GCD anyway.

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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Well actually the new SS glyph will be a massive dps loss in just about any situation...

    We're also getting a few minor nerfs (blade flurry glyph killed, tricks glyph killed, feint costing energy even glyphed...), but all around Combat is looking great.
    the new ss glyph is subjective to a lot of different variables. If you are constantly at an excess of energy as we currently are the glyph will be an increase.

    It'll just make 4 sinister strikes cost the same energy and do the same damage as 5 would without it, which will fix capping. The glyph scales with energy regen, the more you have the better it is. Yeah it'll prolly be poo until we scale up a bit.

    If they plan on making this one of our mandatory glyphs from the start, they'll need to scale the %dmg modifier up to about 40-50% instead of 25 and nerf it back down once our haste scales back up.
    Last edited by Vishiz; 2012-03-23 at 11:08 AM.

  16. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    Actually, if it prevents you from capping its still better. Simply because you'll use it almost every GCD anyway.
    Even the super high energy levels we have now, we only lose a tiny bit of energy during Adrenaline Rush. The massive loss in BG uptime as well as lose Killing Sprees and Adrenaline Rushes would not warrent 5% or so more damage during AR. The only time the glyph would be remotely viable is on fights with haste gimmicks, but even then its arguable (hi nearly 1 minute cooldown ARs during madness).

  17. #17
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Even the super high energy levels we have now, we only lose a tiny bit of energy during Adrenaline Rush. The massive loss in BG uptime as well as lose Killing Sprees and Adrenaline Rushes would not warrent 5% or so more damage during AR. The only time the glyph would be remotely viable is on fights with haste gimmicks, but even then its arguable (hi nearly 1 minute cooldown ARs during madness).
    It's so situational really. Because if i have both of my haste trinkets procced inside an AR i could certainly burn another 25% energy on everything with ease.

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  18. #18
    Quote Originally Posted by Holo View Post
    It's so situational really. Because if i have both of my haste trinkets procced inside an AR i could certainly burn another 25% energy on everything with ease.
    1) Why are you using double haste trinkets?
    2) For 15 seconds sure (no AR glyph in MoP so far), and then you lose massive amounts of dps the rest of the fight.

  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    1) Why are you using double haste trinkets?
    2) For 15 seconds sure (no AR glyph in MoP so far), and then you lose massive amounts of dps the rest of the fight.
    I had double haste trinkets in firelands >< Maybe his gears a little dated and he hasn't got better options yet.

    It's possible there will be fights that the dps you do in the "rest of the fight" doesn't matter. And it will be all about doing as much dmg as you can in a very very short time frame.
    Last edited by Vishiz; 2012-03-23 at 12:47 PM.

  20. #20
    Legendary! Holo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    Why are you using double haste trinkets?
    Because it was better then what i had? I've used Fluid Death up untill a week ago. And if you look at my hit in pve gear it's easy to determine that the trinket was a rather big upgrade.

    Quote Originally Posted by Maelstrom51 View Post
    For 15 seconds sure (no AR glyph in MoP so far), and then you lose massive amounts of dps the rest of the fight.
    Yeah no shit, but can you look into the future?

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