[MoP] Symbiosis

[Deleted]

Doesn't seem like any good idea.

The implementation is unlucky (you get an extra button, just for one class - that's like fitting in heal stone, not cool), and most importantly this seems to be something that encourages comp over player - worsening one of the worst WoW problem - especially in PvP (eg. for priests cyclone is so huge that I can imagine this being massive advantage hardly offset by utility brought by others).
But hopefully I'm wrong and this will survive in some more acceptable form.

[Bsod]

i really really doupt this will go live... far too strong abilitys

[Deleted]

i really really doupt this will go live... far too strong abilitys

And you of course are assuming the spells will be direct copies of their originals and not down-scaled at all, right?

[Nathanyel]

The implementation is unlucky (you get an extra button, just for one class - that's like fitting in heal stone, not cool)

Can you think of a better one? It's actually more annoying to e.g. have a UI element pop up when you get the buff, from which you can drag the new spell to your action bar, or even have that button as a permanent one (think Ultraxion, but permanent)

[Sunfyre]

Can you think of a better one? It's actually more annoying to e.g. have a UI element pop up when you get the buff, from which you can drag the new spell to your action bar, or even have that button as a permanent one (think Ultraxion, but permanent)

I think people are confused. The Symbiosis button will be the same no matter who you cast it on, or if you are a non Druid, who cast it on you. You can change who you cast it on and the ability will update as needed on your bars. You won't have to redrag it from the spell book every time you cast it on a new class.

[Deleted]

I think people are confused. The Symbiosis button will be the same no matter who you cast it on, or if you are a non Druid, who cast it on you. You can change who you cast it on and the ability will update as needed on your bars. You won't have to redrag it from the spell book every time you cast it on a new class.

So every non-druid class will have a Symbiosis spell in their spellbook, even when not affected by the Symbiosis spell?
Or will it get added for them after Symbiosis is cast on them?

[Deleted]

So every non-druid class will have a Symbiosis spell in their spellbook, even when not affected by the Symbiosis spell?
Or will it get added for them after Symbiosis is cast on them?

I'm pretty sure every class will have a symbiosis spell in their spellbook that gets activated once they're targeted by symbiosis.

[Deleted]

I wish they'd replace Misdirection and Soulshatter for balance druids. These two seems rather useless. We shouldn't have aggro problems in the first place. Give us something more useful. I like the other spells, they give cc, dispel or dps cooldown, but why aggro management spells? :/ No warlock or hunter will ever get Sym from me if it goes like this.

[Deleted]

I wish they'd replace Misdirection and Soulshatter for balance druids. These two seems rather useless. We shouldn't have aggro problems in the first place. Give us something more useful. I like the other spells, they give cc, dispel or dps cooldown, but why aggro management spells? :/ No warlock or hunter will ever get Sym from me if it goes like this.

Currently, i can run into an aggro problem when i can start a fight already in an Eclipse, doesn't happen often but with some lucky crits and legendary procs i can close up on the tanks fairly good.
Celestial Alignment at the start of a fight is probably going to cause some serious aggro issues.

Imagine prepot, buffed starfall, buffed Wild Mushrooms (although nerfed), 2 dots together with nuking Starfires. Toss in a troll racial, bloodlust and of course Natures Grace with activating Eclipse through CA and you got yourself firepower.

[Deleted]

Currently, i can run into an aggro problem when i can start a fight already in an Eclipse, doesn't happen often but with some lucky crits and legendary procs i can close up on the tanks fairly good.
Celestial Alignment at the start of a fight is probably going to cause some serious aggro issues.

Imagine prepot, buffed starfall, buffed Wild Mushrooms (although nerfed), 2 dots together with nuking Starfires. Toss in a troll racial, bloodlust and of course Natures Grace with activating Eclipse through CA and you got yourself firepower.

Yeah, you can do high aggro, but I find it boring for a choice for my new high level ability. I rather wait 3-4 seconds at the start, but choose Mirror Image or Recklessness and make up for the tiny damage loss with them later. Or I can get different utilty abilities depending on the fight.
Purge is another that feels weak. Purge itself is good, but if you can get the abilty you will already have a shaman who can take care of the occasional dispel.
Rebirth for holy paladins? The raid will probably already combat res capped without it, and it cannot be used in arena, also rare in battlegrounds, since you res in ~15 secnds anyway with full health and mana.. Can be useful, but so rare you cannot prepare for it.

Symbiosis cannot be used while in combat, so you need to choose something for a whole fight. Need to figure out what will be useful. Thats why we need things that will be good in a situation that you can prepare yourself for. ie: adds to handle, frequent target swithching, heavy damage check, mobility demanding fights. Also the ability you get should be useful considering you will already have someone in the raid who can do that. (shaman gives purge, but he can purge himself, you will probalby don't need a copy; pala gets combat res but the raids usually already have enough).

Also the abilities should be useful for everyone not just hc raiders who provide so much dps the tank cannot keep up with. Your example with bloodlust, prepot, troll racial, CA at the same time shows a situation where aggro reset can be useful, but how rare is that? I don't remember the last time I pulled aggro from the tank. It was probalby in wotlk.

[Deleted]

You are of course correct!
I'm not disagreeing with the fact that i would want something more usefull then some of the current choices, just trying to see their reasoning behind putting these choices up

[Sunfyre]

I wish they'd replace Misdirection and Soulshatter for balance druids. These two seems rather useless. We shouldn't have aggro problems in the first place. Give us something more useful. I like the other spells, they give cc, dispel or dps cooldown, but why aggro management spells? :/ No warlock or hunter will ever get Sym from me if it goes like this.

I have plenty of threat problems in LFR, even with the 500% buff.

I find that Soulshatter will probably be very useful in LFR when you get moronic tanks tanking for you.

Is it situational? Yes, but most of the abilities are supposed to be.

---------- Post added 2012-03-30 at 05:44 PM ----------

So every non-druid class will have a Symbiosis spell in their spellbook, even when not affected by the Symbiosis spell?
Or will it get added for them after Symbiosis is cast on them?

It may not show up until the first time one is cast upon them, but yes, if they drag it to their bars and leave it there, it'll re-activate next time they get Symbiosis.

[Deleted]

It may not show up until the first time one is cast upon them, but yes, if they drag it to their bars and leave it there, it'll re-activate next time they get Symbiosis.

Cool, that is pretty handy, thanks.

[Jibjabb]

This is what I suggest they should add instead of some of the more worthless spells they have currently, these would be more interesting and useful versions and not something that is overly powerful either. These are made with mostly Balance Druids in mind. I chose the classes that gave the most worthless stuff currently to fix, each giving 2 potential options (obviously only 1 would actually go live) the 2 is just to give more ideas up for consideration


From Hunter(1): Widow Venom (No CD - 40 yd range) A venomous shot that reduces the effectiveness of any healing taken by the enemy for 30s
From Hunter(2): Scatter Shot (30s CD - 20 yd range) A short range shot that disorients the target for 4s. Any damage will remove the effect {Obviously change the animation to something that fits}

From Priest(1): Shadowfiend (5m CD) Creates a shadowy fiend to attack the target. Caster recieves 3% mana when the Shadowfiend attacks. Lasts 15s
From Priest(2): Inner Focus (45s CD) Reduces the mana cost of Starfire/Wrath/Starsurge and increases the critical strike chance by 25% {Raise/lower crit chance to whatever is appropriate}

From Shaman(1): Earthquake (10s CD - 35 yd range) You cause the earth at the target location to tremble and break, dealing damage every 1s to enemies within an 8 yd radius with a 10% chance to knock down targets. Lasts 10s {Would be interesting option on aoe oriented fights}
From Shaman(2): Wind Shear (12s CD - 25 yd range) Disrupts the targets concentration with a burst of wind, interrupting spell casting and preventing any spell in that school from being cast for 3s. Also lowers threat making the enemy less likely to attack you {Raise CD as appropriate if 12s is too short}

From Warlock(1): Havoc (2m CD) The next 4 single target spell casts by the Druid also strike their baned target {Alter it to strike say the nearest target or Moonfired target whatever works, can lower the amount of single target casts if 4 is deemed too much}
From Warlock(2): Demonic Leap (10s CD) Leap into the air upon demonic wings, moving a short distance {Can raise CD if 10s is too short}

Anyways I think all of these are MUCH better options than their current forms and none of them would be so powerful that it would be considered unfair, the damage and cooldowns of each can ofc be tweaked if it is too overwhelmingly good. Symbiosis would be a much more interesting choice with these other options.

[Jackkernaut]

OMG lol, 1min UH frenzy(chaining) for Feral, thats insane.....

[Sabnock]

Anyways I think all of these are MUCH better options than their current forms and none of them would be so powerful that it would be considered unfair, the damage and cooldowns of each can ofc be tweaked if it is too overwhelmingly good. Symbiosis would be a much more interesting choice with these other options.

Following the logic behind the choice for the feral, Symbiosis is meant to give a choice between spells you may need in a pvp and pve environment and as for the feral, it is a good idea to have 2 survivability cd, 2 burst dps cd, 3-2 pve utilities and 2-3 pvp utilities.
We already have a good amount of utilities, so what we may want are first are survivability cd like and maybe some pve utilities, and it could be a good idea even to recycle some from feral, or take some abilities like a Bestial Wrath that can be useful for both pvp (and it is dispellable) and burst dps, with 3 min cd instead of 2 min, for example.

[huth]

Remember how people said they would take Incarnation over FoN and how that turned out now? Don't make any assumptions on how strong or weak the skills are when it doesn't say so right on the tooltip.

Thats why people play games. To win. All games are played to find out who is the best.

You never played Dwarf Fortress, have you? Anyway, no, you're wrong. That's not the only reason why people play games, and there are in fact games were winning isn't even defined or where being the best is not important to completely irrelevant.

[Deleted]

You mean how FoN still sucks and the choice is between Incarnation for burst or Soul of the Forest for sustained dps?

Because until I see the treants not bugging out on every possible occasion, and having decent gear scaling, I'm not buying it.

[huth]

Incarnation is inferior to the other two in pretty much every situation.

[Deleted]

wtb blink from mages.