[MoP] Symbiosis

[Elunedra]

They should have it as something like Dreamslip or Dream Embrace, Your character partially enters the Emerald Dream, leaving only a faint corporeal physical form behind. Reduces damage taken by 90% for the duration.

Would be just like the Ysera buff from Madness.

yeh indeed that be nice

[Jibjabb]

OT: I'm very (as in "extremely") interested how this very questionable ability will work out. In my opinion it is too complicated and shouldn't give the other class a druid skill, too. Of course, if you look at the wording, it makes sense, that both players get a benefit, but still I don't think, that it's a good design, because it will lead to very hard to fix balancing issues.
I like the idea though and hope Blizzard will make it work, without shafting it too much. Good luck guys

To what you said it wouldnt suprise me at all if at launch or during a patch they just decide that Symbiosis affects Druid only while the linked person receives nothing. I hope it doesnt happen that way as its fun to help out your fellow non druids with small things but I can definitely see that being an outcome they reach if people either complain too much or certain abilities are just deemed too strong in pve/pvp. Its much easier to just balance out the Druid side than both

I cant however see them removing the ability completely, to me theres close to no chance of that happening

[Azrile]

The point is that EVERY other class in the game has a level 90 DMG cooldown or a lvl 90 DMG Talent.
Druids got a lvl 90 stupid, useless, boring, reliant on player's failure talent
and this useless symbios that buff other players and fu** up only one spec BALANCE.

I'm sick of being treated like that from the devs every damned expansion.
If playing a balance druid = taking the worst spells every expansion I'm going to reroll another DPS class.

Am i the only one out there that noticed that we are lacking an execute phase dmg boost ?
That what we got as a talent (incarnation) is baseline for shamans ?
That every other class is full of CC and defensive abilities both in their spellbook and talent pane while druids got Ursol's Vortex, a disengage that can be prevented anytime with a gap closer, a bugged typhoon/redundant slow/uselss 2min cd root ?

Have anyone else noticed that our lvl 90 spell can be used ONLY if you have someone in your party and not while you are solo? The lvl 90 talent still relies on friends failure FFS !
I want something fun and usable, not something that relies on other people.

As a balance druid, I will be hitting up mages. You are telling me ´mirror image´ isn´t a great ability to have?

As a bear, not sure which to use. Probably will depend on the dungeon. Consecration or evasion both would be nice.

I think it is a really neat idea for a talent. I think the big headache will be if in 5 mans people give you crap about your choice.

[Cyberowl]

As a balance druid I'd sell my soul to get my hands on Deterrence...I hope they change the spells a bit! But I think they'll at least give us Bubble, Ice Block, Deterrence, Dispersion, Cloak or Evasion... Resto and Kitty have multiple of those fantastic survival CDs, Moonkin has none.

Typhoon (short CD) + Ursols Vortex (short CD)/Mass Disorient (short CD)+ Disengage (short CD) + roots (spamable/with a rather short CD) + Stampede in Moonkin form (long CD) + Deterrence (mediocre CD) + Mushroom slow + cheater form + Bash + Dash + Cyclone + NS Cyclone/root (mediocre CD)... god damn, we will be untouchable for every meele if this shit goes live cO

[Sunfyre]

As a balance druid, I will be hitting up mages. You are telling me ´mirror image´ isn´t a great ability to have?

As a bear, not sure which to use. Probably will depend on the dungeon. Consecration or evasion both would be nice.

I think it is a really neat idea for a talent. I think the big headache will be if in 5 mans people give you crap about your choice.

Are we talking PvE or PvP? I'm pretty sure the damage increase from Mirror Images isn't much better than Treants. If you want a DPS cooldown, Recklessness is where it's at. (Combined with Celestial Alignment).

[Sarella]

As a Guardian, I can't see why you'd go for anything but Evasion. Pretty sure this'll lead to 15 seconds of dodging every single attack on a 3 minute cd. Nothing else looks like it'll come close (Perhaps the mage/lock absorb depending on how strong it is for certain fights).

[huth]

Are we talking PvE or PvP? I'm pretty sure the damage increase from Mirror Images isn't much better than Treants. If you want a DPS cooldown, Recklessness is where it's at. (Combined with Celestial Alignment).

With the changes, it's a good deal weaker even. In fact, Mirror Image was nerfed quite a bit. On live my mages copies do 1.4k Frostbolts each, in the beta, they barely manage 300 with the same gear. That's roughly 1/10th of what FoN does.
But then again, we get a different version of the spell, so who knows. On the other hand, i also wouldn't be surprised if Recklessness and Intimidating Roar were backwards.

In fact, i'm rather suspicious of all combinations that result in an ability improving your primary role directly.

[Elunedra]

As a Guardian, I can't see why you'd go for anything but Evasion. Pretty sure this'll lead to 15 seconds of dodging every single attack on a 3 minute cd. Nothing else looks like it'll come close (Perhaps the mage/lock absorb depending on how strong it is for certain fights).

yes thats why i highly doubt if it goes live like this or if evasion is going to bears at all, as its way to powerfull atm

[aggixx]

as its way to powerfull atm

It's not like, you know, they could change the numbers during beta or anything. That would be ridiculous.

It just depends on the path Blizzard decides to take with the ability. If they want abilities that directly increase your effectiveness at your primary combat role, then they will, and they'll balance it around that. If not, then we're more likely to see Evasion go to Feral or Boomkin (or not be used at all).

[Elunedra]

It's not like, you know, they could change the numbers during beta or anything. That would be ridiculous.

It just depends on the path Blizzard decides to take with the ability. If they want abilities that directly increase your effectiveness at your primary combat role, then they will, and they'll balance it around that. If not, then we're more likely to see Evasion go to Feral or Boomkin (or not be used at all).

thats why i ended my statement whit atm. as it will ofcurse chance,

evasion can realy goto cats as they already getting redirect, so yes balance is also my gues

[exochaft]

As a Guardian, I can't see why you'd go for anything but Evasion. Pretty sure this'll lead to 15 seconds of dodging every single attack on a 3 minute cd. Nothing else looks like it'll come close (Perhaps the mage/lock absorb depending on how strong it is for certain fights).

While some things may seem like an obvious choice, there could literally be an obvious choice most of the time for your average tank and spank fight. However, even just quickly looking at the list, there have been times where I wish I had something like Ice Trap or Consecration or Spell Reflection or some method of absorbing magic. If your primary concern is being able to avoid some specific melee onslaught, then Evasion seems like it'd win out. If magic seems to be what will likely kill you, the magic absorption/reflection abilities may be worth while for that fight. Or how about adds control/kiting? While our talents seem to help immensely in that department, I wouldn't mind having more tools at my disposal.

Now, I've just mentioned things from a perspective of a tank. The other druid specs also have many utility options that, while they may not be needed all the time, they may be rather useful in performing pivotal execution roles in raiding environments. Everything from personal survival CDs to mobility enhancements to raid utility CDs... it's not always just about how much damage/healing you put out.

The same philosophy goes to the non-druid target of Symbiosis. Sure, picking a target that gives them a DPS cooldown is nice, but damage/DPS isn't always the answer.

[vaccine]

Also remember your choices may be limited by the number of Druids in the raid. I'd imagine a player can only have 1 Symbiosis on them at a time so if you're all wanting a Rogue or Mage ability but you're only running 1-2 of them someone will miss out.

The other thing to remember is in 10s you're not going to have full class representation. Rogues especially are scarce and adding a new class into the mix will only make the others more so, so you're not going to be able to get your choice all the time.

[Sabnock]

As a balance druid, I will be hitting up mages. You are telling me ´mirror image´ isn´t a great ability to have?
As a bear, not sure which to use. Probably will depend on the dungeon. Consecration or evasion both would be nice.
I think it is a really neat idea for a talent. I think the big headache will be if in 5 mans people give you crap about your choice.

Good for you, but I think you kind of miss the whole point...

[valiorik]

Also remember your choices may be limited by the number of Druids in the raid. I'd imagine a player can only have 1 Symbiosis on them at a time so if you're all wanting a Rogue or Mage ability but you're only running 1-2 of them someone will miss out.

The other thing to remember is in 10s you're not going to have full class representation. Rogues especially are scarce and adding a new class into the mix will only make the others more so, so you're not going to be able to get your choice all the time.

If it will as good as we hope we will see 10s like 5 druids + 5 other classes.

[LilSaihah]

On how powerful these abilities are, note that it is a two-way street. Evasion is a very powerful ability for a bear tank, but Barkskin is fairly useless for a rogue. The abilities you take from a Paladin are fairly poor, but Paladins get some very potent tools in return.

That said, there are some very powerful abilities that are exchanged on both ends(Feral/DK), and in some cases very poor ones(Any hunter).

[Kazlehoff]

oh my sweet jeebus h tapdancing cripes! evasion. i just cried a little.

[Mrbleedinggums]

Balance symbiosis is more useful than what people think, they're only looking at it for what benefits them and not the raid as a whole. Think about it. Give symbiosis to a hunter and grab misdirect. Who has sexy aoe-burst, now with a misdirect, to give threat to a tank when they get out of control?

Priest, get two mass dispells, and seeing as how we're usually good on our mana (not sure how it'll be in mop), it can definitely help out on any aoe-dispel boss fight.

Recklessness is a 5 minute cd for 12s of somewhat-guaranteed crits, but look at the spells it gives to warriors in return. Now look at all the other spells it gives other classes when you give them symbiosis. It's not to be used just for a dps increase for you, it's to give the best benefit to the raid for that specific fight. Get two tranqs (shadow priest) and 2 mass dispels? Hell yea!

Give up your symbiosis to a paladin for HoJ in exchange for allowing the holy pally to use a rebirth? How is that less beneficial to the raid (especially when you used up the only rebirth in the raid last fight) than a 5 min cd for 12 of 50% extra crits?

[Venteus]

Balance symbiosis is more useful than what people think, they're only looking at it for what benefits them and not the raid as a whole. Think about it. Give symbiosis to a hunter and grab misdirect. Who has sexy aoe-burst, now with a misdirect, to give threat to a tank when they get out of control?

Priest, get two mass dispells, and seeing as how we're usually good on our mana (not sure how it'll be in mop), it can definitely help out on any aoe-dispel boss fight.

Recklessness is a 5 minute cd for 12s of somewhat-guaranteed crits, but look at the spells it gives to warriors in return. Now look at all the other spells it gives other classes when you give them symbiosis. It's not to be used just for a dps increase for you, it's to give the best benefit to the raid for that specific fight. Get two tranqs (shadow priest) and 2 mass dispels? Hell yea!

Give up your symbiosis to a paladin for HoJ in exchange for allowing the holy pally to use a rebirth? How is that less beneficial to the raid (especially when you used up the only rebirth in the raid last fight) than a 5 min cd for 12 of 50% extra crits?

The issue isn't that we can't find a use for it. The issue is that its usefulness is incredibly restricted to a small number of circumstances. Soul shatter is only good when you have a tank that consequently spasmodically sucks every 2 minutes. Mass dispel is good when a priest is incapable of casting a 1.1 second cast. Misdirect is decent when your hunter is incapable of doing it himself.

Take a look at the other specs. Other druid specs seem to get far, far, better abilities especially with regard to PvP and survivability.

[Cyberowl]

Other druid specs seem to get far, far, better abilities especially with regard to PvP and survivability.

As a balance druid I'd sell my soul to get my hands on Deterrence...

GIEF DETERRENCE PLX! :P I'd fucking love it <3

[huth]

The issue isn't that we can't find a use for it. The issue is that its usefulness is incredibly restricted to a small number of circumstances. Soul shatter is only good when you have a tank that consequently spasmodically sucks every 2 minutes. Mass dispel is good when a priest is incapable of casting a 1.1 second cast. Misdirect is decent when your hunter is incapable of doing it himself.

Take a look at the other specs. Other druid specs seem to get far, far, better abilities especially with regard to PvP and survivability.

You never had two targets that need to get to their tanks, stat, but only 1 hunter? Same thing for Mars Dispel(sue my raid for constantly misspelling that). The advantage is in being able to do it twice at the same time.

Also, remember that all this is just guesswork and beta material. We don't know which of those are correct, and they're liable to change without notice.