Thread: [MoP] Symbiosis

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  1. #41
    You made one bored moonkin happy again guys. This is looking so good and i'm gonna start with Feral PvP again in MoP :-) (maybe i'll get on 2200 for my first time.....nah just kidding, i'll never get there)
    Main: Wildmax, Drak'thul - Moonkin, Hardcore raider.
    Got 10x lvl 85 on Drak'thul server and 3 another lvl 85 on different servers and bunch of 10-84 alts.
    Hello no-life.

  2. #42
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Olianda View Post
    I'm confused, there were multiple shaman and priest abilities in there. Are the abilities the Druid gains based on the other person's spec?
    No, they are based on your spec. Balance, Feral, Guardian and Resto each get a different spell out of Symbiosis.

    (so there's 40 different spells we can gain, 10 per spec)

  3. #43
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    No, they are based on your spec. Balance, Feral, Guardian and Resto each get a different spell out of Symbiosis. (so there's 40 different spells we can gain, 10 per spec)
    Its like this:
    A Druid who casts Simbiosis on a Priest:
    The druid gets:
    Bear - Fear Ward
    Cat - ???
    Balance - Mass Dispell
    Restoration - Leap of Faith

    The Priests gets something is benefaction to his spec sofar it seems discipline or holy is getting Wild Growth or Tranquility
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  4. #44
    Wow, in for a complete list sometime later Some of these look amazing

  5. #45
    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    No, they are based on your spec. Balance, Feral, Guardian and Resto each get a different spell out of Symbiosis.

    (so there's 40 different spells we can gain, 10 per spec)
    Impossible to balance.
    And blizzard is not even going to try.

  6. #46
    Quote Originally Posted by traen View Post
    Impossible to balance.
    And blizzard is not even going to try.
    Seems like it - i mean giving out a raid healing CD is pretty damn powerful. Just picture a raid that wants lots of tranqs to cheese some boss mechanic. take 5 feral/balance druids (that's 5 tranq's) symbiosis with 5 holy priests (that's another 5 tranqs + 5 to 10 divine hymns depending on how long a fight) that is a butt load of potential raid healing cd's...

  7. #47
    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    Seems like it - i mean giving out a raid healing CD is pretty damn powerful. Just picture a raid that wants lots of tranqs to cheese some boss mechanic. take 5 feral/balance druids (that's 5 tranq's) symbiosis with 5 holy priests (that's another 5 tranqs + 5 to 10 divine hymns depending on how long a fight) that is a butt load of potential raid healing cd's...
    Yeah this is the point I was trying to make before. It just seems absurd that you can gimp entire mechanics of a fight with this ability. Any raid group going for World Firsts are going to have 25 Druids ready to go at a moments notice now. It just seems ridiculous that they see this ability, realize you CANT balance a raid boss around it (for obvious reasons) and essentially any race to World Firsts are going to be X Druids and Y Class with legendaries.

  8. #48
    Lets be honest other than a few occasions where a specific move is required for a fight. It will be given to a class which we personally will get most use of it and the other will get a reasonable bonus.
    Ferals will give to either DKs(unholy for shrooms) or Warriors(shattering for enrage) or Warlocks(for soul swap) or Rogues(redirect[combopoint swap]) if there are target swapping
    Guardians will give to anything with a tank style cd of if none a dps cd
    Balance will give Warrior(reckless for enrage) or Mage(Mirrior)
    Resto will give priests (leap for giggles)

  9. #49
    The Lightbringer Elunedra's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Solmyr13 View Post
    Yeah this is the point I was trying to make before. It just seems absurd that you can gimp entire mechanics of a fight with this ability. Any raid group going for World Firsts are going to have 25 Druids ready to go at a moments notice now. It just seems ridiculous that they see this ability, realize you CANT balance a raid boss around it (for obvious reasons) and essentially any race to World Firsts are going to be X Druids and Y Class with legendaries.
    This is not true!

    only holy priest get TranQ and the druids get Leap of Faith in return,
    TranQ has a long coolodwn you can only use it about once or twice a fight, evne if you have 10 of them you still cant chain them up.
    TREE DURID IS 4 PEE

  10. #50
    The Patient Skyepic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Keiyra View Post
    Seems like it - i mean giving out a raid healing CD is pretty damn powerful. Just picture a raid that wants lots of tranqs to cheese some boss mechanic. take 5 feral/balance druids (that's 5 tranq's) symbiosis with 5 holy priests (that's another 5 tranqs + 5 to 10 divine hymns depending on how long a fight) that is a butt load of potential raid healing cd's...
    can't tell if this is serious or not. Cause this sounds utterly ridiculous.

    1) feral/balance tranq's are very weak and no where near a deciding factor when it comes to killing a boss or not. Regardless of how much raid damage goes out.
    2) yes, guilds are going to bring 5 priests to raid, because tranquility is the greatest spell ever and the tide turner on whether a boss dies or not....
    3) you make it sound as if a feral/balance tranq has the same strength as a healer tranq

    I mean i understand the concept of overexaggeration but atleast make a legitimate point. This is still all just speculation and people are going crazy. None of the spells given or takin are huge game changing abilities. It's just something to add some flavor to the class. Really don't see how it will eb very difficult to "balance".

    I have a good feeling druids will not be giving tranquility to priests, or any other healer for that matter.
    Last edited by Skyepic; 2012-03-22 at 03:56 PM.

  11. #51
    Fluffy Kitten Mihir's Avatar
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    It's very likely that they will downscale all symbiotic abilities to make them balanced (for example look at AMS, the symb version only absorbs 30% of a spells damage, compared to 75% on the real AMS).

  12. #52
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    None of the spells given or takin are huge game changing abilities. It's just something to add some flavor to the class. Really don't see how it will eb very difficult to "balance".
    From a PvE point of view, you might be correct.

    Look at it from a PvP point of view. Balance druids with Mass dispell, ferals with redirect, resto's with leap of faith.

    Those are huge gamechangers.

  13. #53
    Quote Originally Posted by Elunedra View Post
    This is not true!

    only holy priest get TranQ and the druids get Leap of Faith in return,
    TranQ has a long coolodwn you can only use it about once or twice a fight, evne if you have 10 of them you still cant chain them up.
    You don't chain them through the entire fight, but you can chain them through various burn phases.. You could very easily abuse this to make sure you chain hymns/tranqs through every black phase on Zonozz or they entire 9 stack amalg phases on Spine, or the end phase of Beth heroic, etc.

    Will it lead to abuse all the time, no clearly not. CAN it lead to abuses, yup..and that was just looking at 1 example of it.

    Say you have a fight that maybe you could cheese by chaining lots of Tank Damage reduction CD's... normally you'd have bout 1 per healer or less. Take 6 resto druids (that's 6 ironbarks) with 6 ret/prot Pallies and you get 6 hand of sacrifices too. So you could potentially chain 12 tank damage reductions in a row. Would you need to normally? No.

    But the point is, unless blizzard is really taking the time to look at all the possible combinations, stacking abuse etc for all of their encounters (which, who knows maybe they have) - this could lead to some nasty OP'd abuses that'll result in a quick nerf i'm sure once some world first's are cheese by unintended uses.

    That's just PvE, PVP balance is even more vulnerable to something like this.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mihir View Post
    It's very likely that they will downscale all symbiotic abilities to make them balanced (for example look at AMS, the symb version only absorbs 30% of a spells damage, compared to 75% on the real AMS).
    If they do stuff like that, then yes that could definitely help balance out some of the issues.
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2012-03-22 at 04:04 PM.

  14. #54
    I'd say the worst case scenario is that you'll end up stacking druids in raids. It will also be near-impossible to sort out in PvP.

    It is a tough ability to adjust and for it to really be balanced the gains would have to be almost not worth using.

  15. #55
    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    1) feral/balance tranq's are very weak and no where near a deciding factor when it comes to killing a boss or not. Regardless of how much raid damage goes out.
    3) you make it sound as if a feral/balance tranq has the same strength as a healer tranq
    Of course they are not as strong as a resto's tranq, doesn't mean they aren't useful. Feral/Balance will have as much spellpower as a resto (agi->int ability in feral), and the tier 6 talent could allow them to buff their tranq by 30%, which helps make up in part for not having mastery/passive healing bonuses, etc. Trying to progress through tiers i remember using boomkin tranq or shadow priest hmyn as viable CD to get the raid through a phase (progression on Chimaeron was one example were we always had an offspec hymn or tranq in the CD rotation)

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    I mean i understand the concept of overexaggeration...
    Good, because I was deliberately over exaggerating it, just to bring it to attention.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyepic View Post
    None of the spells given or takin are huge game changing abilities. It's just something to add some flavor to the class.
    That's your opinion, and you are entitled to it, but don't act like it's a given fact. Raid and Tank CD's certainly CAN be game changing. And that's just 2 out of what, 40-50 abilities moving around?
    Last edited by Keiyra; 2012-03-22 at 04:21 PM.

  16. #56
    [QUOTE=Skyepic;16061688]can't tell if this is serious or not. Cause this sounds utterly ridiculous.

    1) feral/balance tranq's are very weak and no where near a deciding factor when it comes to killing a boss or not. Regardless of how much raid damage goes out.

    lolwhat

  17. #57
    Quote Originally Posted by Keoren View Post
    I'd say the worst case scenario is that you'll end up stacking druids in raids. It will also be near-impossible to sort out in PvP.

    It is a tough ability to adjust and for it to really be balanced the gains would have to be almost not worth using.
    so much this.

    a holy priest with divine hymn and tranq?

    a rogue with adrenaline rush and berserk (decresed energy)?

    a ret pally with all of their bursty stuff and tiger's fury!?!?! Hello insane pvp burst...


    ....if all this stuff is getting data-mined correctly, this whole symbiosis thing will get nerfed, heavily. There is no way they could leave things in like this.

  18. #58
    The Patient Skyepic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dk3790 View Post
    lolwhat
    Helps if you speak in complete sentences. Use your big boy words, i know you can.

    Looking at it individually, yeah it's probably overpowered. But i think it will balance out when compared and matched up against some of the abilities other classes are getting, in terms of PvP.

  19. #59
    Quote Originally Posted by Solmyr13 View Post
    Yeah this is the point I was trying to make before. It just seems absurd that you can gimp entire mechanics of a fight with this ability. Any raid group going for World Firsts are going to have 25 Druids ready to go at a moments notice now. It just seems ridiculous that they see this ability, realize you CANT balance a raid boss around it (for obvious reasons) and essentially any race to World Firsts are going to be X Druids and Y Class with legendaries.
    Of course you mean that there will be X druids, X priests with a healing spec and then some people equipped with legendaries, right? Because a raid with 25 druids is going to be incapable of using Symbiosis, and only healing priests get Tranquility from the ability. So for maximum tranqs we're looking at a 1:1 ratio of druids to healy priests, which would come out to 12 and 12, plus one remainder who can be whatever. 12 healers is too many. Pare it down to an appropriate number of healers and you still have no healing shamans or pallies or druids, only priests, which is going to be a problem in and of itself.

    It could be a problem. It could be fixed by just having a priest tranq put a Forebearance-type debuff on everyone it hits. But if that doesn't happen, it is not nearly as bad as you've made it out to be. Besides which, this sort of thing is what beta tests are for anyway.

  20. #60
    Found another Rogue-> Druid link, based off tooltips, last night.
    Spell ID: 110727
    (not letting me post links)

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