[MoP] Symbiosis

[Venteus]

Whether someone can play their class or not is irrelevant. I don't want to die. On certain threat sensitive fights, I'd love to have it. Being threat capped sucks.

And if I'm not threatcapped, I couldn't care what warlocks give me. I'm going to give mine to my new warrior buddy, asharia. He'll enjoy enrage, I'll enjoy recklessness.

That's great but outside of the specific circumstance of being around someone who is incapable of using taunt, it's useless. Take a look feral symb statistics, each one has an application in both pve, pvp, and leveling. Whilst the warlock symb seems to be of use to you (I mean you specifically) and you alone, every 2 minutes. You're better off having the tank kicked.

My point isn't that it doesn't have some form of application. My point is that compared to other symbiosed abilities, it is incredibly, incredibly, useless not to mention inferior.

[Sunfyre]

That's great but outside of the specific circumstance of being around someone who is incapable of using taunt, it's useless. Take a look feral symb statistics, each one has an application in both pve, pvp, and leveling. Whilst the warlock symb seems to be of use to you (I mean you specifically) and you alone, every 2 minutes. You're better off having the tank kicked.

Not every trade will be ground breaking or amazing. Soulshatter will have it's uses. I'm interested to hear how ferals will utilize frost nova in PvE that can't be done with mass roots. Divine Shield will probably be used to protect from agro too.

Some abilities have better uses than others in PvE and PvP. But honestly, in PvE everything pales to recklessness.

[Venteus]

Not every trade will be ground breaking or amazing. Soulshatter will have it's uses. I'm interested to hear how ferals will utilize frost nova in PvE that can't be done with mass roots. Divine Shield will probably be used to protect from agro too.

Some abilities have better uses than others in PvE and PvP. But honestly, in PvE everything pales to recklessness.

I'm not asking for equality in every trade, just don't make one so unbelievably situational that it completely trumps its use in PvP, in large PvE, and if for whatever reason leveling alongside a warlock. Whatever use that feral has for frost nova in PvE, I can tell you it's far more useful than a 2 minute aggro dump. I'm asking similar degrees of use here - not night and day.

[Hoticehunter]

So, as a Resto Druid... Iceblock would be really nice to have, but the mage only gets Healing Touch in return. That's... wow. Mages kinda get shafted. I hope to see that change. I would want my Symbiosis to have the greatest group benefit, instead of just what I want most, which would probably be doing it with a healing Priest. They get an amazing healing cooldown, I get leap of faith. Situational, but useful. The Paladin's Hand of Sacrifice would be nice, but I think I'd be too scared to use it without bubble on me, and Paladins only get Rebirth anyway, which is pretty meh.

I suspect the symbiosis list will be changed many times throughout the beta. Some of the abilities classes get are really strong (Healing Priests), and others are just really pitiful (Mage, Warlock)

[Hankenji]

Not every trade will be ground breaking or amazing. Soulshatter will have it's uses. I'm interested to hear how ferals will utilize frost nova in PvE that can't be done with mass roots. Divine Shield will probably be used to protect from agro too.

Some abilities have better uses than others in PvE and PvP. But honestly, in PvE everything pales to recklessness.

That's the thing though, the Warlock and the Hunter options are 100% PVE oriented and given that they are blatantly worse than recklessness in every encounter that has ever existed, it is reasonable to assume that in PVE a Warlock and a Hunter will never get Symbiosis assuming a Warrior is in the raid. (And it's not like they are the 2nd and 3rd best options, they probably will never get it in PVE regardless). So it would be nice if the Warlock and Hunter options at least had the most basic of PVP applications so for those of us who play one of those two classes we can pray to ever even be able to mess around with it.

[Sunfyre]

That's the thing though, the Warlock and the Hunter options are 100% PVE oriented and given that they are blatantly worse than recklessness in every encounter that has ever existed, it is reasonable to assume that in PVE a Warlock and a Hunter will never get Symbiosis assuming a Warrior is in the raid. (And it's not like they are the 2nd and 3rd best options, they probably will never get it in PVE regardless). So it would be nice if the Warlock and Hunter options at least had the most basic of PVP applications so for those of us who play one of those two classes we can pray to ever even be able to mess around with it.

Outside of tranquility, the other class shouldn't have amazing abilities. And that's part of the core problem with tranquility. The abilities given to other classes should be some sort of utility, but nothing more. We don't want to have to be pigeon holed into giving it to one class and one class only. The uniqueness and cool factor should be in the spell the Druid gets, so we can decide who we will cast it on.

[Venteus]

I just can't get past how incredibly different the symb utilities are between feral and boomkin. It seems like they just gave the best spells to ferals and resto druids, boomkins seems to have taken last pick with regard to the overwhelming majority of their received abilities.

Edit: Honestly the only abilities i see measuring up to our rival specs are Images, HoJ, smoke bomb, and reckless.

[TwentyNine]

So, as a Resto Druid... Iceblock would be really nice to have, but the mage only gets Healing Touch in return. That's... wow. Mages kinda get shafted.

Not quite sure on that, it sounds like a pretty nice healing potion if I were to take something other than Invocation / the new Cold Snap (if that still returns health). It also seems that there could be reason to be used during an Icy Veins or something for PvP use in between roots, or even to (hopefully) help myself get topped off during something healing intensive. Doesn't seem terrible (even with the 10sec CD), just extremely situational.

[Spula]

Displacer Beast (teleports to random direction in stealth), and group with rogue = Cloak Vanish ?

[Cyberowl]

I just can't get past how incredibly different the symb utilities are between feral and boomkin. It seems like they just gave the best spells to ferals and resto druids, boomkins seems to have taken last pick with regard to the overwhelming majority of their received abilities.

Edit: Honestly the only abilities i see measuring up to our rival specs are Images, HoJ, smoke bomb, and reckless.

I'm very satisfied with the Moonkin symbiosis spells...

HoJ? A 5 (6?) second stun. Moonkins always wanted to have a stun in PvP.
Mirror Images? Depens what they will be casting...their use in PvP is to drop the target vor a short time and to slow the enemy. But it's still a fun spell. 4 Moonkins + 3 Treants? :P
Reck? A very strong CD for Moonkins in both PvE and PvP. We always lacked a good CD (lol @ treants). We get CA and a burst CD via talents if we need it, but it's still nice.
Smoke Bomb? The most op spell in PvP...

Also:
Purge? Yes, please!
Mass Dispell? Even better


Chains of Ice , Missdirection and Soulshatter are not that great if you play in an organized group. But it could change and we still don't know what we'll get from monks :P

[stormgust]

I've been thinking a little bit about Tranquility. Given that Disc and Holy already have very potent raid cooldowns, while their shadow specs lacks something, it seems more logical in terms of balance, that tranquility will be given to shadow, i.e. along the lines of boomkin tranquility.

[Eliot123]

I love solar beam given to elemental shamans... Mwahaha, we get so many stuns and whatnot in MoP and now this, death to casters all around. <3

[Deleted]

Thought dps classes would also get dps casts... instead we will get only heals or something else like kicks etc. (except for some specs like elementar shamans or retris)...quite boring zZz

[Jibjabb]

I've been thinking a little bit about Tranquility. Given that Disc and Holy already have very potent raid cooldowns, while their shadow specs lacks something, it seems more logical in terms of balance, that tranquility will be given to shadow, i.e. along the lines of boomkin tranquility.

The strength of tranquility may very well be equal to a moonkin tranquility in todays terms. We dont know the effect of how strong it is, so way too early to say its OP or not.

[stormgust]

The strength of tranquility may very well be equal to a moonkin tranquility in todays terms. We dont know the effect of how strong it is, so way too early to say its OP or not.

You're channeling the spell - it has to be strong for the opportunity cost it has. Hence I cannot see them adding a second raid cooldown to priest healing specs, that would make them favored over other healers, as long as you have a druid there that is.

Or think this way: Healing spells (reju/ht) are giving to DD specs, so why would they give the strongest of them all to a healing spec, bringing the spec far above everyone else in terms of utility (have a guardian symbiotizing with a priest...). I'm quite confident that tranquility will indeed be given to shadow priests.

[Deleted]

That makes a lot of sense actually.. swapping tranq and cyclone for now then.

[Nathanyel]

Hunters will get my Symbiosis until Play Dead becomes baseline for cats.

[Deleted]

imagine if you took spellreflect from a warrior, and then dueled the said warrior, and he spellreflected a spell that you cast wich you'd in-turn spellreflect on-to him, awesome.

[tru]

just seems a little to complicated and a little to much to remember. they dumbed down the game a bit more with simplifying stats then they do a spell that has over 40 combinations. It will either be weak as hell or OP as hell because it seems like another tool with X class they will abuse in Arena

[Nathanyel]

imagine if you took spellreflect from a warrior, and then dueled the said warrior, and he spellreflected a spell that you cast wich you'd in-turn spellreflect on-to him, awesome.

The only "spell" that a bear would cast is Faerie Fire/Swarm, and that is not reflectable. And I'd say a reflected spell would not be reflectable anyway.