[Ret] H-DS cooldown usage clarifications and boss fight tips

[loopydoodles]

Hey guys long time lurker first time poster here in the paladin mmo-champ forums here. With the upcoming 15% nerf to DS hitting this week, my 10M-guild plans to down more heroic bosses as we are 3/8H atm. Having done DS thus far only on normal mode I was wondering if the heroic modes require different usage of our Zeal+AW and Guardian.
Armory(cant post links here yet)
wow/en/character/stormscale/Elhaym/simple
Trinkets available are EoU, CotFD(LFR), RS and Varothens Brooch. Wish my trinkets would drop
Here is my current Cooldown Usage thus far on bosses:
H-Morchok (EoU,Creche)
-basically prepot+guardian and Zeal+AW on first 3 HoPo cast inqui if DP didnt proc before initial 3HoPo
H-Yorsahj (EoU,Creche)
-this is where i need some clarification on cooldown usage here. Ive been doing the basic pre-pull cooldown management and using AW+Zeal basically on cd. But what i have read otherwise was saving cooldowns on the germany/double adds phase, so I need some clarification here please.
H-Zon'ozz (EoU,Creche)
-We as a guild have no experience on this boss yet thus we will be progressing on this guy this week. We have a combat rogue in our 10man so he would likely stay and dps cleave the boss and the big tentacle leaving me taking care of flails and eyes. Do I blow my cooldowns at the beggining of the fight or wait till the blackphase when the boss takes increased damage?
H-Hagara (EoU,RS)
-same with zonozz we dont have experience doing this guy on heroic yet but the basic gist of cooldown usage here is basically save everything up for the increased damage phase, no? I also specced into acts of sacrifice so i can dispel myself and probably use bubble to take down 3rd/4th pillar. Any suggestions would also be welcome.
H-Ultraxion (EoU,Creche)
-nothing changed here but anymore tips would be welcome.
H-Gunship (EoU,Creche)
-no experience here yet and i dont know what the fight looks like on heroic either lol :P

Thank you guys for any help that u can give this fellow ret pally

[Kristor]

Heroic hagara you can use cds off the bat and then on 2nd damage phase, i think it's better but i iz a casual so.

[pbad]

I think there are some common misconceptions on how the zon'ozz debuff works on all difficulties. It's a 2 minute duration debuff applied form the stacks of the void ball. As long as you send that ball in every 2 minutes, which you pretty much have to, the debuff will get progressively stronger over the course of the fight, it's not just during the black blood. The way it used to be done was pop everything at the start, use AW/zeal at 2 minutes again, saved the 3rd use for after the 3rd black blood when you get back on the boss, debuff is maxed out, heroism is popped and you line it all up with guardian/pot etc. Problem now is with the increased raid DPS and growing power of the aspects buff the fights don't last that long and you might even be skipping that 3rd black blood phase. Ultimately this fight and a lot of others come down to your guild's particular kill times as they will always vary between guilds and that's the best way to really manage your CDs.

[rahkarn]

I hope this thread gets a lot of attention, I want to discuss/learn from a healthy thread like this.

Yor'sahj is mostly about beating an enrage timer I believe, so popping cds on the add phases would be hurtful, unless they aren't dying.

As always the best +dps bonus is survival first, so keep that in mind with all the death traps in DS.

[Bibler]

On Blackhorn I (we have 2 melee, 4 ranged) pop Zeal/AW on the 2nd drakes which get harpooned, since the timing is quite tight with the sapper spawning and we want to kill the drakes as soon as possible to minimize the ship damage. 2 minute cooldowns come up when Goriona lands on 90%, which is when we use bloodlust and it's of course a good time to use cooldowns again.

[NaaBcAke]

Ultimately this fight and a lot of others come down to your guild's particular kill times as they will always vary between guilds and that's the best way to really manage your CDs.

This.
The gap will be bigger and bigger with every % nerf. Some guilds already kill some bosses for ridic amount of time, especially because they can basically cut as many healers as they want. On the other hand, it depends how many new trials you test every week, if not in top guild, those trials can suck quite a bit, add 2-3 of them, and your overall time can be quite slowed. I know some of my friends rets killed ultraxion so faster then me, that i couldn't almost believe it

[loopydoodles]

Thank you guys for the advice so far. Our 10man guild is a pretty solid group so we dont really have any trials going in and out our raid group so we dont have those issues. I do have more things I wanted to get clarified though, on heroic Yor'sahj when you get adds I believe you switch to Seal of Righteousness to get more AoE where your rotation becomes DS>3HPTV>HW while still targetted on the boss is this correct? Do you use cooldowns on this phase to get more DPS? I see this as counterproductive since DS doesnt proc the Zeal bonus iirc or do you just use AW seperately. Thanks in advance to those who can clarify this :P

[rahkarn]

If you're hitting enrage - use cooldowns on Yor exclusively
If adds aren't dying, maybe using cooldowns on them would be a good idea.
See what happens after you pull and make a decision.
Remember it's not about dps but about getting that first kill.

[Chouzan]

I go very standard on (10) H-Yor'sahj. I'd rather not burn a Zealotry when the aoe needs to be pushed out. A little nitpicking doing this, however, is that by the time you get your 3HP, without DP you're only looking at about 16-17 seconds uptime and 3-4 seconds of cooldowns lost if your guild has problems killing the oozes. Personally, I'm an Engineer so I can stick on the boss for the entire CD phase and rocket boost over to the ooze only losing a couple seconds of GoAK.

Other than that, I just hold my cooldowns if they pop up during a transition.

For Zon'ozz, you'll need to feel it out yourself. However, just remember that you have until 1:40 to use your 2 minute CDs and get 3 cycles in. To get 2 full GoAK in you'll need to use cooldowns by 0:30 or so with a 6 minute enrage timer. Considering this the basic idea, if you have to do a stand and burn in your final P2, would be to pop early, 2nd on cooldown or as soon as you can touch Zon'ozz, and maybe hold the third for your 2nd GoAK, possibly in line with that final black phase where you'll get even more extra damage. You'll need to test it out with your guild's time on killing Flails/Eyes (you may not even touch Zon'ozz until the end of the black phase depending on your DPS).