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  1. #1

    Shadow priest needs help with rotation

    Hello, i think that my rotation isnt good at all. Feels like i should do more DPS. Can't link my armory because i need to post more. Anyway it is Candica on Outland-EU
    The reforge for spirit is just because i was healing some so nothing to worry about ill reforge it back again.
    So my rotation is: VP->SWP->DP->Shadow Fiend->(IF NEEDED)One mindflay for 5 DE. Then i just spamm mindblast when i have three orbs and keep my dots up and when mindblast is on CD i'll just mindflay. Am i lacking something crucial in my rotation?
    Im at steady 22k on boss raiding dummy. Is it low?

    Please help a brother out!

  2. #2
    The Patient
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    Without spending a ton of time relaying what is already in guides, I can tell you that you should cast DE before shadowfiend. DE lasts 18 seconds, shadowfiend will only be up for 15 seconds. So you don't want to waste any of the shadowfiends time, while DE has a few seconds to spare. Other than that, nothing you described sounds wrong. And you should probably link us some logs to get some more pointed advice. The only ones I can find of you are you healing wipes to heroic hagara.

    Dummy DPS doesn't really have a lot of relevance. But 22k does indeed sound a bit low for your ilvl. For reference, I just ran a test on a dummy of 8 million damage. Was running 25.5k dps with only self buffs. My ilvl is just a tad lower than yours and we have the same trinkets equipped. I'm also reforged to rely on a warlock for the other 3% haste to reach a plateau, so I'm losing a bit there. So basically, it sounds like you're doing something wrong. But without logs, it's hard to say what.

    In terms of gearing, be sure to just gear for 30% haste, and then gear to mastery. Again, hard to say if you're doing that or not since you're reforged to spirit.
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  3. #3
    Please go to us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/topic/4254523582 If it shows link broken google it I had trouble finding it as well. This thread will help your dps greatly.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by lwalker8 View Post
    Without spending a ton of time relaying what is already in guides, I can tell you that you should cast DE before shadowfiend. DE lasts 18 seconds, shadowfiend will only be up for 15 seconds. So you don't want to waste any of the shadowfiends time, while DE has a few seconds to spare. Other than that, nothing you described sounds wrong.
    Dark Evangelism is off GCD. Shadowfiend is not. By casting Dark Evangelism first you are wasting 1 GCD for Shadowfiend.

  5. #5
    Sounds like you are waiting for 3 orbs to mind blast, dont just mind blast as much as you can.

  6. #6
    The Patient
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Dark Evangelism is off GCD. Shadowfiend is not. By casting Dark Evangelism first you are wasting 1 GCD for Shadowfiend.
    DE lasts 3 seconds longer though? I would say go DE>MS>MS>SF>MB>MS>MS ect...

    What are you doing/do you think it's better than above? I would think having DE still going after you finish your MB/MS rotation and are just reapplying DoTs to the target would be worthless, whereas having it up for the two first MS would be of value.
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  7. #7
    Quote Originally Posted by lwalker8 View Post
    DE lasts 3 seconds longer though? I would say go DE>MS>MS>SF>MB>MS>MS ect...

    What are you doing/do you think it's better than above? I would think having DE still going after you finish your MB/MS rotation and are just reapplying DoTs to the target would be worthless, whereas having it up for the two first MS would be of value.
    Eh... what? Dark Archangel is 3 seconds longer even if you cast Shadowfiend before Dark Archangel. The amount of Mind Spikes/Mind Blasts you can fit within a Dark Archangel buff doesn't change. You effectively do nothing for 1 GCD if you cast Shadowfiend during Dark Archangel.

  8. #8
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Eh... what? Dark Archangel is 3 seconds longer even if you cast Shadowfiend before Dark Archangel. The amount of Mind Spikes/Mind Blasts you can fit within a Dark Archangel buff doesn't change. You effectively do nothing for 1 GCD if you cast Shadowfiend during Dark Archangel.
    If you are trying to maximize burst on a fight like Heroic Spine though, you do want to Sfiend during Archangel.

    Example:
    1. Build up 3 orbs just prior to Tendon burn phase
    2. Refresh Dark Evangelism (often the same thing).
    3. Archangel as soon as the tendon will be targettable and Mind Blast (3 orbs)
    4. Spike, Spike, Shadowfiend, Spike.etc depending on haste at the time (lust, troll zerking, PI, gear can all affect number of spikes per blast).
    5. 3x Orb MB
    6. MS/MB as normal

    The advantage here is that although the late Sfiend is taking up a spike GCD, it' making sure your last MB has 3 orbs as well - where popping it at the start when you already have 3 orbs does nothing, depending on your level of mastery - but usually for just about anyone reforged for H Spine - getting 3 orbs on your last MB > 1 additional Mind Spike - and you aren't gaining more 3 orb spikes because Shadowfiend only lasts 15 seconds regardless of when you summon it - either your using the non-orb MS's at the start (above strategy) or getting them at the end just before your last MB.
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  9. #9
    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    If you are trying to maximize burst on a fight like Heroic Spine though, you do want to Sfiend during Archangel.
    The window of burst on Tendon is as long as Dark Archangel. Of course you will pop it at the start...

  10. #10
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    The window of burst on Tendon is as long as Dark Archangel. Of course you will pop it at the start...
    You pop Archangel at the start, you Don't pop Sfiend right at the start.
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  11. #11
    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    You pop Archangel at the start, you Don't pop Sfiend right at the start.
    Of course you don't pop Shadowfiend at the start on Spine... because you want an instant Mind Blast with three orbs and crit...

  12. #12
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Eh... what? Dark Archangel is 3 seconds longer even if you cast Shadowfiend before Dark Archangel. The amount of Mind Spikes/Mind Blasts you can fit within a Dark Archangel buff doesn't change. You effectively do nothing for 1 GCD if you cast Shadowfiend during Dark Archangel.
    "if you pop Shadowfiend before Dark Archangel", "you effectively do nothing for 1 GCD if you cast Shadowfiend during Dark Archangel"

    Using Shadowfiend before Archangel means your last MB will not have 3 orbs and your first MB will not benefit from the orbs from Shadowfiend (since you can enter tendon phase with 3 orbs already).

    Shadowfiend should be used after (during) Archangel - despite that the GCD costs you a Mind spike - because it ensures your last MB has 3 orbs.
    Last edited by Yvaelle; 2012-04-07 at 07:50 PM.
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  13. #13
    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    "if you pop Shadowfiend before Dark Archangel", "you effectively do nothing for 1 GCD if you cast Shadowfiend during Dark Archangel"

    Using Shadowfiend before Archangel means your last MB will not have 3 orbs and your first MB will not benefit from the orbs from Shadowfiend (since you can enter tendon phase with 3 orbs already).

    Shadowfiend should be used after (during) Archangel - despite that the GCD costs you a Mind spike - because it ensures your last MB has 3 orbs.
    Where in that quote did I talk about Tendon burn? You take what I write and then say it doesn't apply to Tendon burn when I didn't even talk about Tendon burn in the first place.

    P.S. Your rotation for Tendon is horrible.
    Last edited by Ariadne; 2012-04-07 at 08:15 PM.

  14. #14
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ariadne View Post
    Where in that quote did I talk about Tendon burn? You take what I write and then say it doesn't apply to Tendon burn when I didn't even talk about Tendon burn in the first place.
    You didn't, which is why I started my response with a condition specifically stating when what you stated as a rule is not true (specifically, the most important high DPS burst phase on any fight this tier - it's not some minor caveat - it's where DA/SF coordination started from).

    "If you are trying to maximize burst on a fight like Heroic Spine though, you do want to Sfiend during Archangel."

    I'm not saying it's always wrong to shadowfiend before archangel, particularly if you don't have three orbs - but it's not ideal where it counts - that deserves to be mentioned.
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  15. #15
    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    You didn't, which is why I started my response with a condition specifically stating when what you stated as a rule is not true (specifically, the most important high DPS burst phase on any fight this tier - it's not some minor caveat - it's where DA/SF coordination started from).
    What? I never stated any rule that is used for everything. I just said you are wasting one global within Archangel if you pop Shadowfiend after popping Dark Archangel. And I was quoting a person who mentioned getting DoTs up after the rotation so I would assume it was not Spine. Spine is the exception because you can't Mind Blast right off the bat anyways (well, at least you shouldn't) and Archangel lasts as long as the burn phase. Mentioning Spine is silly because no one in their right mind would hold off Archangel there.

    I'm not saying it's always wrong to shadowfiend before archangel, particularly if you don't have three orbs - but it's not ideal where it counts - that deserves to be mentioned.
    Good joke. Tendon damage became irrelevant after the first nerf to Tendons. Right now, Spine would be the fight I would care least about when it comes to my MS/MB rotation.
    Last edited by Ariadne; 2012-04-07 at 09:51 PM.

  16. #16
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    So because heroic spine tendon damage is irrelevant to you, and coordinating your dps cooldowns is something you care least about on that fight - it's equally irrelevant for me, all other spriests - including spriests doing 22k dps who are specifically asking how to maximize their DPS (the OP)?

    Are you angry that I corrected you(personally), or offended that people (in general?) still coordinate dps cooldowns for arguably the hardest encounter in the game?
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  17. #17
    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    So because heroic spine tendon damage is irrelevant to you, and coordinating your dps cooldowns is something you care least about on that fight - it's equally irrelevant for me, all other spriests - including spriests doing 22k dps who are specifically asking how to maximize their DPS (the OP)?

    Are you angry that I corrected you(personally), or offended that people (in general?) still coordinate dps cooldowns for arguably the hardest encounter in the game?
    He is not asking how to maximize his DPS on Spine HC. He is asking how to maximize his DPS in general and he provided us with his rotation for a "normal" fight and not some 20 second burst window. The person I quoted to begin with was a reponse to OPs rotation. You starting to talk about Spine HC out of nowhere and corrected me when I wasn't even talking about it.

    I am "angry" because you come and correct me on something I never said. You claimed that I stated a rule for how to use MS/MB on all encounters when I just said that you lose a GCD by casting Shadowfiend during Archangel.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aríadne
    The window of burst on Tendon is as long as Dark Archangel. Of course you will pop it at the start...
    That was my first answer to you and you still went with several posts after that trying to explain why using Shadowfiend a bit into the Tendon burn is better.
    Last edited by Ariadne; 2012-04-07 at 11:49 PM.

  18. #18
    Moderator Yvaelle's Avatar
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    Your first post which I quoted was in response to lwalker8's:

    Quote Originally Posted by lwalker8 View Post
    DE lasts 3 seconds longer though? I would say go DE>MS>MS>SF>MB>MS>MS ect...

    What are you doing/do you think it's better than above? I would think having DE still going after you finish your MB/MS rotation and are just reapplying DoTs to the target would be worthless, whereas having it up for the two first MS would be of value.
    To which you disputed his use of SF during AA, which I corrected - conditional in an example like HC Spine - but relevant anywhere you were maximizing burst.

    Your first response to me was about whether to use Archangel at the start of tendon phase - that was never in question - when to use sfiend was.
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  19. #19
    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    Your first post which I quoted was in response to lwalker8's:

    To which you disputed his use of SF during AA, which I corrected - conditional in an example like HC Spine - but relevant anywhere you were maximizing burst.
    Except for the fact that lwalker8 mentions putting up DoTs after that rotation, meaning he wasn't talking about Spine HC.

    Quote Originally Posted by SkillOverKill View Post
    Your first response to me was about whether to use Archangel at the start of tendon phase - that was never in question - when to use sfiend was.
    If it was never in question to use Archangel at the start on Spine HC, isn't it then obvious that you'd have to use Shadowfiend during Archangel?

  20. #20
    The Lightbringer Joyful's Avatar
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    The way I'm using the MS/MB rotation is:
    MFx2 (both clipped), DA, MB, Shadowfiend, MSx3/4, MF until MB is off cooldown. And I do this twice then I reapply dots after with 5 stacks of evangelism.

    Should I not be using DA before SF?

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