1. #2181
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    Nope, 1 in 3,000 or 1 in 7,000 read contracts. (Depending on the studies you look at)

    Most people don't read legal stuff. In fact "most" isn't even vaguely accurate, it'd be more accurate to point out that contract readers are lottery winner rare.

    What most people do is normal. General practice. The norm is always right in such issues.

    Did you even read and / or understand any of those studies you are refering at? Yeah, the irony....

  2. #2182
    Quote Originally Posted by potaco View Post
    A: "So when can I expect the money?"
    B: "The $100 will be granted when the $5 is received."

    What about now?

    Still legal? Yep. Still crappy? Even more so.
    but what you say doesn't matter, it is what the contract says. If the contract said that then yes I would demand the $100 right there. But this is not the case with the annual pass, no where in the contract did it say that you would get beta access right away. And what the blizzard rep/advertisement says has no bearing in this at all.

  3. #2183
    Quote Originally Posted by potaco View Post
    http://www.mmo-champion.com/threads/...greement-(EULA)

    There's a poll I threw together yesterday... Pitifully small sample size, but the trends are emerging (and about what you'd expect). Over 2/3 of responders have never read the entire thing and less than 7% keep up-to-date with it. And this is on a gaming forum where people are more educated about the game and arguably more likely to care about this type of thing.
    I suspect most people don't bother reading it because if they disagreed for any reason they wouldn't get to play the game(s). So if you're going to end up agreeing to ensure you can play does it really matter what it says? If you took the time to read it you'd still be playing - you'd just know what size the grains of sand are in the butt lube.

  4. #2184
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No one else did either, and this is perfectly normal.

    Therefore anything blizzard did shoudl be viewed through that lens - of hardly anyone reading the contract.

    So..

    What did blizzard say in the ad? Oh ye beta goes live and you'll be stright in. misleading. And in fact the contract is irrelevent, only the ad and morhaimes speech matters.
    While I won't say that "no one" else did, I will agree with this general sentiment. Blizzard knows people won't read the contract. Blizzard knows that most people either 1) wouldn't be able to understand the legalese, or 2) would find it unreasonable and surely not worth the cost of paying a lawyer to read over an offer involving such a low (relative) amount of money.

    Things like the FAQ exist for this reason. Blizzard didn't have to put together an FAQ or respond to any questions on the forum regarding the clarification of the offer's terms, but they know that simply stating, "Read the terms of the contract if you have any questions" is an unreasonable expectation. There is implied transparency/good-will there.

  5. #2185
    Quote Originally Posted by Injin View Post
    No one else did either, and this is perfectly normal.

    Therefore anything blizzard did shoudl be viewed through that lens - of hardly anyone reading the contract.

    So..

    What did blizzard say in the ad? Oh ye beta goes live and you'll be stright in. misleading. And in fact the contract is irrelevent, only the ad and morhaimes speech matters.
    No...they said people would get into the beta when it went live and that access to the beta will be open when it is launched. Both criteria have been met. Stop trying to make generalizations personal.

    Also, since I read it, your first ultimatum is false.

  6. #2186
    Quote Originally Posted by Bullet25 View Post
    but what you say doesn't matter, it is what the contract says. If the contract said that then yes I would demand the $100 right there. But this is not the case with the annual pass, no where in the contract did it say that you would get beta access right away. And what the blizzard rep/advertisement says has no bearing in this at all.
    Sure, the contract dictates the required terms. I'm not arguing that.

    What I'm arguing is that it is easy to imply, without lying, something in addition to what the contract states in order to mislead people. Again, it's not a "legal" issue; it's an emotional/psychological one.

  7. #2187
    Quote Originally Posted by Themessiah View Post
    Not sure what you're getting at with this?
    Apparently Injun thinks that the only people who ever read a contract before signing it are fanboys you are totally excited about everything Blizzard do, even about contracts.

    Well given how rare reading legal stuff is, the fact that you are doing it either makes you a fanboi who just loves blizzard that much even legal stuff is dead exciiting for you
    Either that or he thinks you are a statistical anomaly.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  8. #2188
    Field Marshal Ieatsouls's Avatar
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    Man I really Hope I can get into the Guild Wars 2 beta!!! That's what we are talking about right?

  9. #2189
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    Hypotethically "When you die, you will get a proper burial"

    Imagine it infront of you, the minute you die someone will shove you down a whole and fill it with dirt, it doesn't work like that.

    Altough we don't know when you die. But when you die, some time will pass until the appropriate managements are done and you can finally go to your rest.

    Compare that to the beta invite, and you will also get there when the preparations are done.
    I registered on MMO-Champion, and all I got was this lousy signature...

  10. #2190
    It's good to know that the time of personal responsibility is over and that regardless of what I agree too, it is always someone else's fault if the contract I signed and didn't read is different than the expectation I made up in my head.
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  11. #2191
    So many people do not understand the english language it is so very surprising. Please listen to the announcement again and realize how idiotic you are for expecting to be in beta day 1.

    Also, logic.

  12. #2192
    Quote Originally Posted by Acidz View Post
    Did you even read and / or understand any of those studies you are refering at? Yeah, the irony....
    Hey!

    Panda bear!

    We don't take kindly to reading and understanding things 'round here!
    I shall die here. Every inch of me shall perish. Every inch, but one. An inch. It is small and it is fragile and it is the only thing in the world worth having. We must never lose it or give it away. We must never let them take it from us.

  13. #2193
    Quote Originally Posted by Abandon View Post
    It's good to know that the time of personal responsibility is over and that regardless of what I agree too, it is always someone else's fault if the contract I signed and didn't read is different than the expectation I made up in my head.
    Bollocks to personal responsibility. This was handled badly by Blizzard and is a PR nightmare.

  14. #2194
    Quote Originally Posted by Nelfie View Post
    Hypotethically "When you die, you will get a proper burial"

    Imagine it infront of you, the minute you die someone will shove you down a whole and fill it with dirt, it doesn't work like that.

    Altough we don't know when you die. But when you die, some time will pass until the appropriate managements are done and you can finally go to your rest.

    Compare that to the beta invite, and you will also get there when the preparations are done.
    I'll repeat my argument to the contrary:

    The phrase "when [x] goes live" is commonly used to refer to the event occurring as [x] first becomes available, not the entire time period for which [x] is available.

    Today, it would be inaccurate to say that "the beta is going live." You could say, "the beta is live" or "the beta went live last Thursday" or "the beta has gone live", but all imply that the actual act of going live has already occurred in the past.

  15. #2195
    Quote Originally Posted by potaco View Post
    Sure, the contract dictates the required terms. I'm not arguing that.

    What I'm arguing is that it is easy to imply, without lying, something in addition to what the contract states in order to mislead people. Again, it's not a "legal" issue; it's an emotional/psychological one.
    This is my point exactly, If you would have read the contract which was only 4 paragraphs long and did not need a legal degree to understand then you would have said AT THAT TIME. "HEY wait you said that we would get it when it goes live and the contract doesn't state that. What gives blizz?" and they would have said to you "The contract is what matters here." then you could have made an educated choose whether to do it or not.

  16. #2196
    Stood in the Fire Nelfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ieatsouls View Post
    Man I really Hope I can get into the Guild Wars 2 beta!!! That's what we are talking about right?
    Your attempt to be sarcastic fails, as you are in the inappropriate sub-forum to event remotely think that's the subject.
    I registered on MMO-Champion, and all I got was this lousy signature...

  17. #2197
    Seriously how can this not be clear, blizzard intentionally promised everyone to get into beta instantly (which they can do, they have the server power) to get people to sign the contract. Now they are raking in the profits and are like lol screw them, we're rich!1!

  18. #2198
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    Quote Originally Posted by potaco View Post
    I'll repeat my argument to the contrary:

    The phrase "when [x] goes live" is commonly used to refer to the event occurring as [x] first becomes available, not the entire time period for which [x] is available.

    Today, it would be inaccurate to say that "the beta is going live." You could say, "the beta is live" or "the beta went live last Thursday" or "the beta has gone live", but all imply that the actual act of going live has already occurred in the past.
    I'm pretty sure i read somewhere that Blizzard have the full rights to change anything anytime they feel fit. The only thing you actually is paying for is a 12-month subscription without the possibility to cancel it. The rest is just bonuses.
    I registered on MMO-Champion, and all I got was this lousy signature...

  19. #2199
    This is what the blog post announcing it stated.

    Access to the Next WoW Expansion Beta Test – Get a guaranteed spot in the beta test for the next World of Warcraft expansion (at a time to be announced in the future).
    source

    How does that deceive you? Because you interpreted guarenteed spot into first access is your own misunderstanding. Let me repeat they never promised you expedited access. They promised you a guaranteed spot which means you will get in instead of the usual lottery setup where you end up more then likely not getting in. Please close this thread because QQ threads with no source other then the persons head are not productive.
    Last edited by calahil; 2012-03-28 at 01:40 PM.

  20. #2200
    Stood in the Fire Nelfie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Harmloos View Post
    Seriously how can this not be clear, blizzard intentionally promised everyone to get into beta instantly (which they can do, they have the server power) to get people to sign the contract. Now they are raking in the profits and are like lol screw them, we're rich!1!
    Wow, that must be the must idiotic i read past hour.
    I registered on MMO-Champion, and all I got was this lousy signature...

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