[Resto] usual "Healing spine, need help"

[edlike]

Healing wave is terrible. Mathematically inferior to GHW + LB. You can use it if you want but it is simply a poor play choice.

Spine strat general:
(Note on CD usage, we generally Tranq and Aura Mastery every second expose, and SLT every roll)

I'm not going to say you need TC, but you probably need TC. I am dispeller for our group and I do not take cleansing waters. TC allows me the luxury of spamming dispel as often as I want (usually between 30-60 dispels a pull) to pass the debuff without cleansing waters.

Something about this fight: as the dispeller you actually have a decent amount of control and influence over how easy the fight is going to be in the 3rd plate. Basically in the perfect scenario both tanks and all 3 healers get 2 stacks of earth.

!!! We purposely delay rolls by a few seconds after killing tentacles so that we get extra Blood of Neltharion debuffs out on the raid!!!

The 40% damage reduction is totally clutch, especially during the last plate where the healers are inevitably going to get hit. During progression the threat from our resto druids hots would always cause her to be gibbed if she got gripped with searing plasma late in the encounter. Started getting healers up to 2 stacks of blood of neltharion once your tanks are set (or even earlier if you are getting bad debuff jump RNG) and you will notice a tangible difference in the end.

As far as reforging I stuck with the standard set up of haste over the 1860whatever goblin breakpoint and about 2k mastery. On our first kill I had 2600 spirit, about enough to hit close to 17% hit with 2/3 elemental precision. Second kill i had about 3000 due to a couple of upgrades. I still use DMC: Tsunami because we have really terrible luck with trinket drops.

I also took focused insight for spine specifically since healing rain uptime is very high. If you decide to do this make sure you are disciplined enough to shock before every HR. Something else to keep in mind, if your group is having DPS issues you can have another healer dispel during the plate expose so you can help DPS.

I SLT every roll and it is up for the 2nd expose on the third plate (Final burn)

I've found a lot of what makes this fight easier is burning through the plates as fast as you possibly can. The longer the fight takes, the more bloods are inevitably going to be piled up by the third plate. We found when we would wait for 1.5m CDs for every expose the damage became to overwhelming at the end. You have to push the exposes as fast as possible and hope your DPS is capable enough. We pot during the 2nd plate, and lust during the 1st expose on the third.

Mana gains kill 1:
Telluric Currents 247564 mana
Replenishment 74219 mana
Resurgence 57018 mana
Water Shield 53818 mana
Hymn of Hope 17851 mana

Mana gains kill 2:
Telluric Currents 262662 mana
Replenishment 105431 mana
Water Shield 61398 mana
Resurgence 50903
Hymn of Hope 18195 mana

my armory: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/characte.../plux/advanced (sorry i probably have my pirate hat on)

vid of our first kill, not super duper HQ, but you can see our positioning and how little movement we do. It allows us to aoe heal everyone the whole encounter and requires minimal movement to soak blood stacks. you can also see when SLT is used. Our tank doesn't start kiting bloods until the final expose (and if you look real close you can see a cute goblin casting lightning bolts most of the time)

Resto druid POV:

[Deleted]

Hey, we just killed HC Spine with hpala, rshaman, rdruid.

Our BIGGEST problems were healers(especially resto druids) getting aggro on bloods in the end. We had them stack on the tank. Still be ready with Hand of Protection on healers. Our second problem was the rolls. We burned ALL cds we had for that phase except for Vampiric Blood(4 piece) and aura mastery since the most amount of damage came from physical. Also ALWAYS check the death logs. In the beginning we couldn't understand why some rolls raped us completely, untill we saw 5-8 hits of blood burst. So make your DPS calm on the bloods. Check their dmg done on them overall, but especially for the rolls. Don't kill them at that point, it's too much to heal. We had the blood DK pop Vampiric Blood when he felt like it. Usually for the amal explosions, and aura mastery for that as well. Spirit Link and tranq did the job just fine for the rolls as long as you do it quick enough. If you have the amal ticking many times with 9 stacks of blood it's too much to heal.

Also have a healer to call targets to heal up with plasma debuffs. He needs a good understanding of every class. Like leaving the mage, and healing a hunter first due to the fact that a mage can block. Before the amal explosions, clear ALL debuffs as good as you can. It's good if you can save instant heals(nature swiftness and lay on hands) for when something is getting low with a plasma debuff. Your ret pala needs to keep an eye out on who might need it, or tell him to do. Preferably get 3 healers on skype. It's easier to quickly communicate due to the low delay and no PTT.

For you, more or less keep mana tide on CD. If you are close to getting mana capped, just heal more on the debuffs. Be sure to check the healing meter and the other healers mana, and if they heal alot but are at 50% ish while you are still at 80%+ mana, start healing a bit more, or tell them to chill. If everyone spam healing wave kind of heals and hots on the debuffs, you should be okay. Aim to have MAX 2 or 2.5 debuff up. If more you are behind, and you need to start popping CDs or heal more. Also Grace and manatide works good together due to the 25% less mana cost. Use them on the rolls is also a good idea.

My raid wanted me to keep healing rain down all the time for the extra HP buff. I found out I did 50% overhealing with it. WAY too much to be worth it for a 10-15k more HP buff. Keep riptide on the tanks, they want the buff, but not the raid. Healing rain is 10k mana. 10k mana every 10th sec is 5k per 5th sec. That is basically all your combat regen. Also I did not find the Focused Insight talent to be worth it. You need to spend ALL globals, and boosting next heal with 30% is not worth it imo. Also the only situations where you want 30% more heal on healing rain is when the amal explodes and rolls. But you need SO much healing for the rolls that it doesn't matter that much anyway.

[edlike]

But you need SO much healing for the rolls that it doesn't matter that much anyway.

SLT honestly trivializes the roll damage if you are using it at the right time. the third roll is hard, for sure, but generally the raid comes out of it around 30-40% health in our situation.

[oberetta]

@enaina - if you are keeping HR down and find mana to be a problem, then you arent using TC correctly. use the EP build, spam on the tendons, and you should be full or close to it on each plate. part of the cost/benefit of the HR is that it is passively healing the entire raid, plus the buffs, which gives the flexibility to still be put out very high single target thrughput while HR does the light lifting for you.

[Deleted]

@enaina - if you are keeping HR down and find mana to be a problem, then you arent using TC correctly. use the EP build, spam on the tendons, and you should be full or close to it on each plate. part of the cost/benefit of the HR is that it is passively healing the entire raid, plus the buffs, which gives the flexibility to still be put out very high single target thrughput while HR does the light lifting for you.

I used to pop grace and have the hit talent and spam the tendon while it was up. You might be right, that is more uptimal. However I do usually not find it worth it to spam it that much out of tendon nuke phases. And I agree that the HR healing great when it's needed. However I just didn't find it usefull to just keep up the HP buff

[sarasun]

SLT honestly trivializes the roll damage if you are using it at the right time. the third roll is hard, for sure, but generally the raid comes out of it around 30-40% health in our situation.

That. We have two resto shamans, and the rolls were very trivial.

[Xarganthos]

so how do you manage to heal without using healing wave? maybe it sounds stupid but i cant stop myself from using it.

so far i'm the top healer, staying at 90-100% but as soon as the we reach the third plate, we cant outheal the incoming damage. maybe its not the healer's fault since we have a shitload of blood and cant bomb it before making the last roll.. i hope i can soon provide logs from our tries today

edit:
our raidlead was so nice to put the logs on wol so:
http://www.worldoflogs.com/reports/f...pes&boss=53879

[edlike]

so how do you manage to heal without using healing wave? maybe it sounds stupid but i cant stop myself from using it.

Casting a GHW and a TC LB to offset the additional mana cost of GHW over HW is actually higher HPS and HPM than just casting multiple HWs. HW simply heals for too little to be as effective, not to mention that it can only be justified on targets that are near maximum health, and therefore tends to receive very little benefit from Mastery.Throw in that HW spam unnecessarily eats up Tidal Waves stacks, making it less likely that you'll have one available when you "need" it for a key GHW, and HW spam is just sub-optimal in every possible aspect.To demonstrate it let's use a simple, yet accurate, example. We'll assume 0 haste, just to have even numbers, and since all of the spells scale the same with haste and it therefore wouldn't change the result.

Imagine if you had to heal, say, 30k healing.

It would take you 3 HW casts to accomplish that. That's 7.5 seconds.

Or, you could cast 1 GHW to heal it completely, leaving you 5.0 seconds to cast 2 TC+LBs.

Speaking from my own gear and logs, I return over 3k mana per LB after deducting the mana cost of LB. Let's round down and say that I spend that 5 seconds casting 2 LBs returning 6k mana.

Cost of using HWs: 3 x 1981 = 5943
Cost of using GHW: 7267 - 6000 = 1267

Alternatively, let's say you decided instead to use 1xGHW to heal the damage and only cast 1xLB instead of two:

Cost of GHW: 7267 - 3000 = 4267

You'd still effectively save nearly 1700 mana by using GHW/LB isntead of HWs, but you've also upped your HPS significantly by being ready for the next heal in 5 second instead of 7.5 seconds that it would have taken to cast your HWs.

This example doesn't use Tidal Waves, for simplicity sake, but it is my opinion that TW actually makes it MORE in favor of GHW over HW, as HW spam consumes all TW procs and reduces the likelihood that you'll have them available for when heavier damage sets in and you need the urgency of a TW'd GHW.In every possible way, in any gear greater than leveling blues, using HW is highly inferior to using GHW and supplementing with TC regeneration.

The only times I would recommend using HW to a modern raider are:
You're at full mana and would rather waste Tidal Waves instead of contributing to DPS with LB
(Hint: don't do this, helping DPS with LB is more valuable than mindless overhealing)
You're intentionally using HW to keep Ancestral Vigor up on a target that's about to expire, and Riptide and Unleash Elements are on CD. (This actually can happen, but is generally rare)

taken from Caleko - US Alleria
Thread: http://us.battle.net/wow/en/forum/to...9504?page=1#17


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As far as your logs:
Is your priest dispelling? His healing #s are low. Your druid is also kind of low too. This fight is a stand still and spam aoe heals for 10 minutes encounter.

I heal with a Hpal and Rdruid, they generally are at 25-26k hps. I am usually around 20k with dispelling. We use all of our raid CDs except for SLT during the nuclear blast. We've found that it really helps if you can minimize the amount of pulses that go out. Generally its plasma into too many pulses that causes raid deaths

[ganiccus]

i am healing with a disc priest and holy paladin and i'm on dispel duty (i put 2 talent points on cleansing waters for reduced cleanse cost and the heal effect). rolls are an absolute joke, we pop the whole raid cd's there (barrier, aura mastery, tank cds, and SLT) and use that opportunity to wipe as many bloods as possible. if you time SLT correctly, like 1 or 2 seconds after everybody is stacked, i can't see how you can lose anyone. for the nuclear blasts, we only pop a rallying cry for extra health (we have a prot warrior and arms warrior so we always have one for each blast). for the dispel duty, try to put 2 buffs asap on each tank and then try to spread the buffs so that every other raid member can at least have one. we also kill 5 tentacles at the beginning to spawn more amalgamations before the first roll to get more buffs.

my healing strat for this fight is to keep riptide buff on the bloods tank and then on people with healing debuffs. personnally, i use HW to heal the debuffs when people are almost full hp. if there is an emergency, it's usually because a target is very low so i switch to GHW to clean the debuff ASAP. I will also use healing rain quite a lot on the second and third plate, the raid starts to take dmg with all the bloods exploding left and right.

[edlike]

(i put 2 talent points on cleansing waters for reduced cleanse cost and the heal effect).

i've found CW isn't really worth it as the heal is so minimal (and you have to factor in the 6 second ICD) and i'm not ever ooming (thanks to TC) even with 40-60 dispels

[Deleted]

here is our video of the kill, my pov. hope it helps.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SuL5Yo-V2Xw

OMG, it opens with Ghost of Perdition? <3<33